Player Discussion: J.T. Miller

Discussion in 'Tampa Bay Lightning' started by Werewolf, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. DFC

    DFC Registered User

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    His playoff stats are really the only relevant ones here. We all saw him turn into Teddy Purcell, and he has no playoff successes to fall back on.
     
  2. Sky04

    Sky04 Registered User

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    While Miller didn't exactly play himself out of the 3rd line it's obvious he needs to play with skill to be effective, his line of Killorn Cirelli didn't work for any of them, while Kucherov and Stamkos did nothing as well I'm surprised they weren't at least reunited once the last 2 games.

    Regular season production does have its place or did people forget how much they whine for 5 months of the year for more regular season production? Miller was more impressive in his 19 games then Johnson and Killorn were all year.
     
  3. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    Pretty much and Miller is younger then killorn and Johnny move killer or Johnson out already. I’d ship Johnson out to send a message to cooper and this team.
     
  4. HoseEmDown

    HoseEmDown Registered User

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    ES stats for this year. Where he didn't produce much more than Killorn and he was on the top line his entire time here. I already acknowledged in my other post that he's been improving the past few seasons and the 3 straight 20 goal seasons. He still averages less than 20 a year for his career, I can't see him getting close to 30 though. He's a better offensive player than Killorn I agree but we don't need another 5mil player on the top line, we can put a rookie up there and get decent production for fraction of the price.

    Johnson produces more than Miller and has the far superior playoff production. He also will probably be making less than Miller might get. Killorn can go but the return won't be as good and he can produce if we put him on the 3rd line, there's no evidence to show Miller can produce outside the top 6. I'd rather keep the guy who we brought up their our system and has been with us for longer than a new guy who isn't a monumental improvement.
     
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  5. DFC

    DFC Registered User

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    Yes, but we have to pick and choose who we pay. Killorn is likely impossible to move, so it's not like we can just move him and keep Miller. TJ might be on his way out either way.

    Miller has three career playoff goals, and two of them came this year, one on the PP. He only wound up with 4 ES points, despite playing, I think, 10-11 games with Stamkos and Kucherov. But more to the point, his game got frighteningly passive as the intensity heated up, and his history doesn't give us a lot to suggest that's going to change.
     
  6. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    Ya I’d rather ditch killorn and pay Miller but I doubt anyone wants that killorn contract
     
  7. HoseEmDown

    HoseEmDown Registered User

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    What did Miller show that makes him a keeper for you? He played with Stamkos and Kucherov and picked up points, Namestnikov showed he could do that too so we could possibly throw just about anybody up there to do that.

    So let's compare them outside of points. Miller threw more hits in the regular season, both had same number of blocks, Miller had almost twice as many giveaways than takeaways while Killorn was even there. But come playoff time the hits were almost even, Killorn had more blocks, Miller had 10 giveaways to 10 takeaways while Killorn was 3 to 8. Miller is the better regular season guy but he fades in the playoffs while Killorn steps up. I'd rather have the guy who steps up and will be making less money than the one who disappears.
     
  8. AndreRoy

    AndreRoy Registered User

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    Let’s not forget that Killorn has a full NTC for the next couple of years so even if we could find a taker for him he’s not going anywhere unless he wants to. He’s on a competitive team in an income tax-free state; about the only reason he might have to approve a trade is for an increased role and he’s far enough from his next contract that he’s probably not too concerned about the financial implications at the moment. So unless it’s just an ego thing with him where he wants to be known as a top six forward I can’t see a reason for him to want to leave.

    In short while it’s always possible that Yzerman might ask him and he might say yes, I’m assuming that he’s not going anywhere for at least another couple years.
     
  9. Maelmoor

    Maelmoor Registered User Sponsor

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    So the message to Cooper and the team is that those who coast through the playoffs will be kept and those who got a proven record will be tossed out?

    TyJo got as many goals in these playoffs as JT Miller has in his whole career..

    JT Miller
    GP 57
    G 3
    A 21
    P 24

    TyJo
    GP 64
    G 24
    A 26
    P 50
     
  10. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    True but this playoffs Johnson was a no show pretty much and Johnson seems to be declining each year
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  11. DFC

    DFC Registered User

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    Wasn't Johnson like second highest on the team in scoring chances though? He struggles to cash in at times, definitely, but players who get chances tend to come through before players who don't.
     
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  12. Sky04

    Sky04 Registered User

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    TJ going to keep living off random hot playoff streaks forever? Proven record means nothing when you don't show up like he did this entire year. Miller's worth in the regular season will be worth more then TJ in the regular season+playoffs at this rate.
     
  13. DFC

    DFC Registered User

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    I don't think that's entirely fair.

    While Johnson's overall numbers were definitely down, he's being compared here to guys who feasted on PP points. All 8 of Johnson's points were put up at ES, and, with all of our ES problems, that makes him one of the only players who more/less met expectations.

    As far as I can tell, our ES scoring looked like this:

    Palat - 11
    Point - 10
    Johnson - 8
    Kucherov - 8
    Stamkos/Hedman/Stralman/McDonagh/Gourde - 5(!)
    Miller - 4

    I'm sure there are other guys mixed in.

    We got crushed at ES, except for that second line, and even the second line got shut down HARD against Washington. But the entire team did. Which I think points more to a coaching problem.

    I think we might move Johnson, and I'm all for it if the return is right, but if it's a decision between Johnson and Miller, I still think Johnson's the guy showing it in the playoffs more than we can expect from Miller.
     
  14. AndreRoy

    AndreRoy Registered User

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    He wasn’t up to his usual standards but very few on the team were this postseason. And he was still fourth on the team in ES goals and tied for first in assists, generated more quality shot attempts than anybody besides Point, and won 54.6% of his faceoffs. When it comes to assigning blame for the team’s failure this postseason TJ’s one of the last people you should be looking at.

     
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  15. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    yep the way you need to look at it is who is the better player going forward? Miller or Johnson?
     
  16. Maelmoor

    Maelmoor Registered User Sponsor

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    He owned Bergeron in the faceoffs, played a big part why we knocked out Boston, sure those are not fancy stats but they are things that you need. He created chances, worked hard, did a good job on the PK, scored a few important goals etc.

    Also he scored 50 points and got 21 goals, those are solid numbers.

    Agreed. He had 42 shots this run, compared to 33 in 15-16, just that his shooting percentage was much lower, so he definitely created chances.
     
  17. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    Since the cap is going up to 78 to 82 million just go to arbitration with JT Miller and do a one year deal
     
  18. HoseEmDown

    HoseEmDown Registered User

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    I'm pretty sure he'd be a UFA after the year. That's not good asset management as he could walk for nothing and it lowers his value in a trade. You gotta sign him for at least 3 years, he should be good those years and would be moveable if needed.
     
  19. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    sign him for 6 years man
     
  20. waterboy65

    waterboy65 Registered User

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    Vegas just proved that you can bring in any number of new players and make the Cup finals. If I am Stevie Y, I do not overpay to keep players (like he did with Callahan). We have a good farm system now so there is no need to get desperate and sign any player to outrageous contracts in terms of length and amount.
     
  21. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    if you have a good coach with a good system too bad we have a poor coach in Jon Cooper so cooper needs all the good players he can get like miller and his prospects
     
  22. CupsOverCash

    CupsOverCash Registered User

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    Im curious to see how this team comes out next year. We came out like a cannon in the beginning half. Would be nice if we could get into a rhythm before the playoffs started.
     
  23. Cmac66

    Cmac66 Registered User

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    If we do get rid of him, what do people generally believe we can get for him?
     
  24. Todd1a

    Todd1a Kucherov or prospect

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    There hope is a first round pick I think
     
  25. DFC

    DFC Registered User

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    Something around 20th overall? In that ballpark, I think.
     

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