Iyla Kovalchuk or Brad Marchand?

[Sheppy]

Imagine using +/- to compare players on different teams. But please keep moving the goal posts.

Ok, take +/- away from it... (Even though Jersey was a 48 win team in one of those seasons)

It's not close offensively.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Initially with name recognition it seemed it would be Kovalchuk but looking at Marchand and his scoring rate, penalty killing, lead by example hard work consistency... Marchand has the edge.

Marchand scored 37 goals, 8 seasons ago. Once he added PP time and offensive zone shifts he entered thus unbelievably impactful prime. Also once he and Bergeron stopped dragging useless players such as Caron around.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Ok, take +/- away from it... (Even though Jersey was a 48 win team in one of those seasons)

It's not close offensively.

You're right, Kovalchuk is better offensively. He put up those points in a way lower scoring period with way less support.

 

[Sheppy]

You're right, Kovalchuk is better offensively. He put up those points in a way lower scoring period with way less support.

Jesus Christ. It's like trying to communicate with a turnip.

 

[23Monahan]

Marchand is a MUCH more complete player. If you're trying to win, he's the obvious answer.

 

[Slew Footed by Holik]

Well...these aren't easy players to compare as they're very different from one another. Like some I felt the burn from Kovy taking his puck and going home before his Devils career really got going...and while I respect what Marchand brings to the table, I'm by no means a fan of his.

Kovalchuk was the more exciting, explosive and skilled of the two. And he meant more to his team in his prime that Bradley.

I vote for Kovy.

 

[BLNY]

You're certainly easier to please than my wife.

There's a poll ... I mean pill ... for that.

 

[Sky04]

How do you figure? Marchand’s only been elite for like 6 years now. Kovalchuk was at that level for a decade and was only stopped by him going to the KHL

I personally think the Thrashers version of Kovalchuk was more threatening but he was one dimensional, people pretend like the 50 goal Kovalchuk and two way Kovalchuk were the same player at the same time, they weren't.

I would take the 100 point all around pest that Marchand is over either iteration of Kovalchuk.

 

[37Bergenov14]

Real close, but going with Marchy by a hair. Fairly comparable offensive peaks (though I'd give the edge there to Kovy), but Marchand's superior defensive skill puts him over the top for me. Perhaps I'm just remembering wrong, but I recall Kovy being pretty lackluster defensively (cherry picker as others have said here).

 

[Jumptheshark]

How do you figure? Marchand’s only been elite for like 6 years now. Kovalchuk was at that level for a decade and was only stopped by him going to the KHL

factoring in his playoff output and his peak is longer than Koveys

 

[authentic]

You're right, Kovalchuk is better offensively. He put up those points in a way lower scoring period with way less support.

He was also being fed minutes and powerplay time like candy. Not as good away from the puck as Marchand. Offensively he was probably still the better player but not by nearly enough to offset the difference in their defensive play.

 

[RSPens]

Kovalchuck was slightly better offensively, where Brad is much better defensively. The only thing that makes this closer is that Brad unfortunately used to cross the line too often which hurt his team. I'd still take him over Kovalchuck any day of the week.

 

[RSPens]

What could Marchand do that Kovy couldn't? During his time in New Jersey he was one of the most complete wingers in the league.

Well let's look at career stats for the 2 of them...

Kovalchuck
926 games, 443 Goals (0.48 g/gm), 433 A (0.47 A/gm), 876 pts (0.946 pts/gm) with an ugly -146 +/-

Marchand
884 games, 356 Goals (0.4 g/gm), 453 A (0.51 A/gm), 809 pts (0.915 pts/gm) with a very nice +267 +/-

So as I stated, Kovalchuck is better offensively (slightly), but Brad is way better defensively.

Now I know that +/- is not a great stat to use when comparing players, but a 413 pt gap is huge and does at least tell you something about how these players are defensively.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Well let's look at career stats for the 2 of them...

Kovalchuck
926 games, 443 Goals (0.48 g/gm), 433 A (0.47 A/gm), 876 pts (0.946 pts/gm) with an ugly -146 +/-

Marchand
884 games, 356 Goals (0.4 g/gm), 453 A (0.51 A/gm), 809 pts (0.915 pts/gm) with a very nice +267 +/-

So as I stated, Kovalchuck is better offensively (slightly), but Brad is way better defensively.

Now I know that +/- is not a great stat to use when comparing players, but a 413 pt gap is huge and does at least tell you something about how these players are defensively.

It really doesn't. It tells you Kovalchuk played on some really bad teams and Marchand has played on some really good ones (stapled to the best defensive center of the past 20 years).

 

[Regal]

I think Kovy at his best was a better one man army type when he was on, and could dominate more individually, but Marchand is pretty incredibly skilled himself so I don’t think the difference is huge, and Marchand seems better able to adapt to other players and systems, and his all around game is better as well.

I think it should also be noted that Kovy was force fed huge PP minutes in Atlanta and Marchand also gets low ES time. Marchand is an incredibly efficient scorer.

 

[norrisnick]

Well let's look at career stats for the 2 of them...

Kovalchuck
926 games, 443 Goals (0.48 g/gm), 433 A (0.47 A/gm), 876 pts (0.946 pts/gm) with an ugly -146 +/-

Marchand
884 games, 356 Goals (0.4 g/gm), 453 A (0.51 A/gm), 809 pts (0.915 pts/gm) with a very nice +267 +/-

So as I stated, Kovalchuck is better offensively (slightly), but Brad is way better defensively.

Now I know that +/- is not a great stat to use when comparing players, but a 413 pt gap is huge and does at least tell you something about how these players are defensively.

+/- says absolutely nothing about an individual player.

Have the two players switch teams and the +/- will stick to the teams and not the player.

 

[Sheppy]

Marchand also played 3 mins less per game.

 

[RSPens]

It really doesn't. It tells you Kovalchuk played on some really bad teams and Marchand has played on some really good ones (stapled to the best defensive center of the past 20 years).

If it was about 50 pt gap then yeah, maybe I'd agree...but 413...come on...Does Brad not get any credit for what he does defensively?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

If it was about 50 pt gap then yeah, maybe I'd agree...but 413...come on...Does Brad not get any credit for what he does defensively?

He's a great player but actually not that good defensively

 

[Whaddagoal]

Not to be a nitpick, but can we work on the title: Ilya

please, give the man some respect!!!

And, Kovy was definitely better in his prime, except he quit on the NHL right around the time he started looking really really amazing (Devils fans will always remmber how he carried the team on his back during that playoffs run), and that PK (powerkill) they ran with him and, i think Zubrus?

 

[Sheppy]

He's a great player but actually not that good defensively

That graph is from a few years ago.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That graph is from a few years ago.

I know, I didn't do a bunch of searching.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

I think its close, personally. Kovalchuk was an incredibly gifted player, played on crap teams for the most part in a low-scoring era, and by and large didn't receive as much on-ice support as Marchand (nor, presumably, locker room support from a well-defined, robust team culture like Boston has), but Marchand has been such a consistent and effective player that its hard to knock him here.

All told, I would have liked to have seen Kovalchuk play a few more post-peak years in the NHL, as he had changed his game in an intriguing way while in New Jersey and I feel he left some good NHL years on the table.

 

[BadBruins]

Tough one because Marchand is still in his peak years (IMO)... and Kovalchuk had a few years where he was theoretically in his prime away from the NHL.

Since 2016, only McDavid, Draisaitl, Kane, and Mackinnon have more points than Marchand. Only Kucherov and Mackinnon have more playoff points.

 

[wintersej]

I personally think the Thrashers version of Kovalchuk was more threatening but he was one dimensional, people pretend like the 50 goal Kovalchuk and two way Kovalchuk were the same player at the same time, they weren't.

I would take the 100 point all around pest that Marchand is over either iteration of Kovalchuk.

You bring up a super valid point. The version of Kovi that wasn’t just a cherry picker once he got to Jersey was a 30 goal, 70 point guy. A lower scoring era, but prime Marchand has been better than that.

I still think that Kovi had another level that Marchand doesn’t have…because Marchand plays hard all the time. But give me Marchand.