Dreger: Islanders 1st round pick to vegas (per source)

[CupHolders]

Even Islanders fans were calling Snow a moron. Everybody was perplexed by yesterdays' events, everybody.

With that said, nobody should be gloating until the deals are finalized. What does seem apparent is that the Islanders are going to make a big trade of some sort, perhaps multiple big trades.

Don't think it's gloating at all. Hopeful excitement at the uncertainty of upcoming events, maybe. But otherwise, Isles fans mostly spend their days reconciling dread.

 

[Sheva7]

My feelings as well.

Kulemin is an excellent foot soldier. He is overpaid, but this is the last year so no biggie. Dude hustles, plays hard, plays right. He's also built like a tank. I think he's very useful still for the Isles.

Kulemin is great. A true quality bottom 6er. Does it all and doesn't take a shift off.

But...yes theres a but lol...putting him and his 4mil price tag next to Hickey and Halak....you gotta point to Kule as the most expendable for obvious reasons.

Now if you throw a guy like Chimera in there....then that changes things, for me at least. I'd rather have Kule @4 mil than Chimera @ 2.5 (guy is the most overrated player in the league).

 

[Canada4Gold]

I can only speak from a Vegas POV on this but I am not sure Nelson is worth a 15th, maybe 20th but from a Vegas POV, they need to get elite player and better chance swinging for the fences with the 15th pick then taking a guy who probably will never go beyond a solid second line LW

They could probably get a 1st+ for Nelson, they could probably get another 1st elsewhere to take someone for the cap space Grabo and Kulemin takes up, even just Grabo LTIR, people pay to move that at times.

Assuming their goal is to just get a bunch of 1sts. If it's Grabo and a 15th to take Kulemin then it's a bad deal for Vegas IMO.

 

[PWJunior]

Thankfully I learned a long time ago not to take Dreger's word as gospel when it comes to the Islanders. His information generally comes across speculative without proper sourcing(my 2 cents is he heard about the first then jumped to (wrong) conclusions like he always does with us)

When it comes down to it, 99% of all the stuff out there concerning the Isles is from other markets. We get zero media coverage and Snow loves the cloak and dagger stuff. Dreger knows nothing about the Isles.

 

[Dipietro39]

They could probably get a 1st for Nelson, they could probably get another 1st elsewhere to take someone for the cap space Grabo and Kulemin takes up, even just Grabo LTIR, people pay to move that at times.

Assuming their goal is to just get a bunch of 1sts. If it's Grabo and a 1st to take Kulemin then it's a bad deal for Vegas IMO.

You don't know if Vegas was ever going to get a crack at Nelson. This deal could have been ironed out weeks ago. If no deal in place, the Isles could have trade Nelson or protected him and traded others . . . you don't have the full details, none of us do.

And Grabo can only be traded. He is exempt from the draft.

 

[boredmale]

They could probably get a 1st for Nelson, they could probably get another 1st elsewhere to take someone for the cap space Grabo and Kulemin takes up, even just Grabo LTIR, people pay to move that at times.

Assuming their goal is to just get a bunch of 1sts. If it's Grabo and a 1st to take Kulemin then it's a bad deal for Vegas IMO.

You have to factor in you probably can get a 3rd for Kulemin at the deadline(both him an Grabo are UFA's next season). Garbo probably will spend the entire year on LTIR so insurance covers 80% of that, and even if he doesn't you can try dump him at the deadline.

Maybe they can pick Nelson and trade him to Calgary(16)? or Boston(18)? but the lower that pick gets the less value it has compared to the 15th. Just looking at McKenzie's list imagine if they can get Liljegren(16) or Tolvanen(17), or maybe somebody like Rasmussen falls to 15th

 

[Canada4Gold]

Again, Vegas wants PICKS. Isles wouldn't be sending a first + cap dumps if Vegas could pick Nelson. THat's the whole point of this trade.

It's not a great draft, but you guys are undervaluing the 1st round pick.

Vegas can also flip Kuli at the draft or trade deadline for more picks.

Huh? The Isles didn't protect him. And if the decided to then 2 of Strome, De Haan or Pulock would have been available(I'm assuming De Haan wasn't protected because of this agreement and would have been otherwise.)

Vegas would have had a choice between this deal, or taking a very good player, either Nelson, Strome, Pulock, or De Haan probably(Isles could protect at most 2 of these guys no matter what route they took or leave even better guys available).

I'm saying that I think it would have been better for Vegas to just pick 1 of those guys than agree to a deal IF the deal is Grabo + 15 to pick Kulemin.

 

[Dipietro39]

When it comes down to it, 99% of all the stuff out there concerning the Isles is from other markets. We get zero media coverage and Snow loves the cloak and dagger stuff. Dreger knows nothing about the Isles.

Exactly! And given what happened to the previous Isles Beat Guy, there is ZERO chance Staple makes this report without it coming from the Isles and with their permission. He revealed the names, which was a big no-no from the Isles and the league.

 

[Canada4Gold]

You don't know if Vegas was ever going to get a crack at Nelson. This deal could have been ironed out weeks ago. If no deal in place, the Isles could have trade Nelson or protected him and traded others . . . you don't have the full details, none of us do.

And Grabo can only be traded. He is exempt from the draft.

I know Grabo could only be traded I did say at the end Grabo + 15 to take Kulemin. I didn't say anything about picking Grabo

NYI would have been in a position to expose 2 of the 4 I mentioned(Nelson, Strome, De Haan, Pulock). If NYI was to threaten trading both of the guys they would have exposed and I was Vegas I would have called their bluff. That makes NYI a much worse team to avoid losing 1 guy. Similar situation to Minnesota they likely wouldn't do it.

I would have been fine dealing with NYI but something like 15 to pick Kulemin, I think that's more close to the value of 1 available guy. Give me a 3rd and maybe I'll take Grabo too.

I'm not saying it's terrible, or a stupid move, just that I think it's slightly bad value for Vegas, meaning it's good for NYI. You should be happy, not trying to convince me that it's not a good deal for NYI or something because it is.

 

[boredmale]

You should be happy, not trying to convince me that it's not a good deal for NYI or something because it is.

I think it's making the best of a bad situation given this team wants to compete next season. Froma Vegas POV though I take that 15th pick and suck up the bad contracts for a year(one which is for a very good bottom 6 player who is slightly overpaid but can fetch more drafts picks and the other for a guy who will be on LTIR)

 

[Dipietro39]

Huh? The Isles didn't protect him. And if the decided to then 2 of Strome, De Haan or Pulock would have been available(I'm assuming De Haan wasn't protected because of this agreement and would have been otherwise.)

Vegas would have had a choice between this deal, or taking a very good player, either Nelson, Strome, Pulock, or De Haan probably(Isles could protect at most 2 of these guys no matter what route they took or leave even better guys available).

I'm saying that I think it would have been better for Vegas to just pick 1 of those guys than agree to a deal IF the deal is Grabo + 15 to pick Kulemin.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

IMO, Snow and GMGM negotiated this deal PRIOR to the Isles coming up with their protected list. Since Isles traded a 1st + Cap Dumps + directing who vegas would pick, the Isles didn't NEED to protect those guys, as Snow knew they were never being selected.

In other words, if Snow and GMGM didn't hash out this deal, which was probably done weeks ago, the Isles Protected list could have looked a lot different and perhaps several trades would have been made.

CDH was not protected IMO because he is being traded or Snow wants to devalue him in arbitration.

 

[seafoam]

I know Grabo could only be traded I did say at the end Grabo + 15 to take Kulemin. I didn't say anything about picking Grabo

NYI would have been in a position to expose 2 of the 4 I mentioned(Nelson, Strome, De Haan, Pulock). If NYI was to threaten trading both of the guys they would have exposed and I was Vegas I would have called their bluff. That makes NYI a much worse team to avoid losing 1 guy. Similar situation to Minnesota they likely wouldn't do it.

I would have been fine dealing with NYI but something like 15 to pick Kulemin, I think that's more close to the value of 1 available guy. Give me a 3rd and maybe I'll take Grabo too.

I'm not saying it's terrible, or a stupid move, just that I think it's slightly bad value for Vegas, meaning it's good for NYI. You should be happy, not trying to convince me that it's not a good deal for NYI or something because it is.

It's literally 9.19M in cap for one year for the 15th overall pick.

Don't see how that is bad for Vegas at all, considering they need to hit 60% of the cap I believe.

A lot of the guys they choose are not going to be making a lot, Vegas may actually need that 5M in cap attached to Grabo just to hit their floor.

 

[Dipietro39]

I know Grabo could only be traded I did say at the end Grabo + 15 to take Kulemin. I didn't say anything about picking Grabo

NYI would have been in a position to expose 2 of the 4 I mentioned(Nelson, Strome, De Haan, Pulock). If NYI was to threaten trading both of the guys they would have exposed and I was Vegas I would have called their bluff. That makes NYI a much worse team to avoid losing 1 guy. Similar situation to Minnesota they likely wouldn't do it.

I would have been fine dealing with NYI but something like 15 to pick Kulemin, I think that's more close to the value of 1 available guy. Give me a 3rd and maybe I'll take Grabo too.

I'm not saying it's terrible, or a stupid move, just that I think it's slightly bad value for Vegas, meaning it's good for NYI. You should be happy, not trying to convince me that it's not a good deal for NYI or something because it is.

Understood. The deal could be #15 overall + another pick + Kuli + Grabo. I don't think we know the full story.

And again, if SNow and GMGM couldn't make a deal, Snow probably would have made some other deals and changed up the protected list, OR just let Vegas take one of Nelson or Strome without giving up the pick.

 

[SI90]

It's literally 9.19M in cap for one year for the 15th overall pick.

Don't see how that is bad for Vegas at all, considering they need to hit 60% of the cap I believe.

A lot of the guys they choose are not going to be making a lot, Vegas may actually need that 5M in cap attached to Grabo just to hit their floor.

If the deal is what we think it is then it benefits both teams.

 

[FeedingFrenzy]

Damn the golden knights are gonna have so many 1sts in this draft

What makes you think they will all be 2017 1sts?

 

[Dipietro39]

It's literally 9.19M in cap for one year for the 15th overall pick.

Don't see how that is bad for Vegas at all, considering they need to hit 60% of the cap I believe.

A lot of the guys they choose are not going to be making a lot, Vegas may actually need that 5M in cap attached to Grabo just to hit their floor.

Exactly, the Browns just did it this past off-season in the Osweiller trade. Took his contract for the Texans first round pick.

 

[PWJunior]

What makes you think they will all be 2017 1sts?

Very true.

It does look like Vegas is going to have a massive amount of draft capital to use this year, next year, or the year after. Any picks this year can be parlayed into future picks.

 

[cjdv16]

Even Islanders fans were calling Snow a moron. Everybody was perplexed by yesterdays' events, everybody.

With that said, nobody should be gloating until the deals are finalized. What does seem apparent is that the Islanders are going to make a big trade of some sort, perhaps multiple big trades.

Not true at all. The only people who were perplexed were the people who either:

1. Revel in other people's failure or pain
2. Are tremendously short-sighted
3. Are 15-18 year olds who haven't learned that you bide your time in this world and wait until the pain drys

That said, I'll wait for the announcement.

There are so many permutations as to what the Isles can get with that first round pick, that it's impossible to speculate.

But I will say this... Snow did a helluva job if anywhere close to the following is true:

1. He kept LV from taking ALL of the following (All of which ANY of the 29 other teams would jump on if they could) - Czikas, Clutter, CDH, Strome, Pelech, Mayfield, Strome, Nelson

2. Got LV to eat anywhere from 4-10M in salary

3. Can parlay the money and assets that were saved via this transaction into 2 or more top 6 forwards to help round out their forward group


I'll close with this..... one way or another, people will desperately be clammoring for a "Delete Post" button within HF by Thursday.

Maybe even me.

 

[Dipietro39]

Snow is a HORRIBLE GM, but he isn't that stupid to trade a 1st for Vegas to then select CDH. I never believed that. No way.

 

[cjdv16]

It's literally 9.19M in cap for one year for the 15th overall pick.

Don't see how that is bad for Vegas at all, considering they need to hit 60% of the cap I believe.

A lot of the guys they choose are not going to be making a lot, Vegas may actually need that 5M in cap attached to Grabo just to hit their floor.

Re: the Grabo contract, it's not all one sided.

There's a benefit to LV taking that on if I understand it. The AVV helps bring them closer to the cap floor as you point out.

However, the salary itself should be insured. And so, LV will only need to lay out a portion of the salarty due to Grabo.

In the end they're saving money if their goal is to field a cheap team.

e.g., 70M cap floor hit, but only outlaying 68M to get there.

 

[cjdv16]

Snow is a HORRIBLE GM, but he isn't that stupid to trade a 1st for Vegas to then select CDH. I never believed that. No way.

Same here.

Another poster brought up a great point that Snow will leverage the fact that CDH went unprotected and WASN'T CLAIMED in arbitration as an RFA. Really smart business if true. May not work with an arbitrator, but it's worth the chance.

 

[A Pointed Stick]

Same here.

Another poster brought up a great point that Snow will leverage the fact that CDH went unprotected and WASN'T CLAIMED in arbitration as an RFA. Really smart business if true. May not work with an arbitrator, but it's worth the chance.

That depends where you draw your line on smart. If he kills him in arbitration deHaan will just go 1 year then become a UFA.

We lose in that scenario.

 

[CupofOil]

Not true at all. The only people who were perplexed were the people who either:

1. Revel in other people's failure or pain
2. Are tremendously short-sighted
3. Are 15-18 year olds who haven't learned that you bide your time in this world and wait until the pain drys

That said, I'll wait for the announcement.

There are so many permutations as to what the Isles can get with that first round pick, that it's impossible to speculate.

But I will say this... Snow did a helluva job if anywhere close to the following is true:

1. He kept LV from taking ALL of the following (All of which ANY of the 29 other teams would jump on if they could) - Czikas, Clutter, CDH, Strome, Pelech, Mayfield, Strome, Nelson

2. Got LV to eat anywhere from 4-10M in salary

3. Can parlay the money and assets that were saved via this transaction into 2 or more top 6 forwards to help round out their forward group


I'll close with this..... one way or another, people will desperately be clammoring for a "Delete Post" button within HF by Thursday.

Maybe even me.

You're wrong, just look at the 1st page on the Islanders Expansion thread. Most of the posters on your board were perplexed when the protection list was first announced which is natural in the heat of the moment. Most Oiler fans were perplexed by the Hall trade when it was first announced and most love it now so it happens.

In any event, Vegas taking Kulemin makes sense and benefits both teams. They get the 15th pick+Kulemin instead of just De Haan, Nelson or Strome and they get a veteran Russian teammate for Shipachyov to ease his transition. The Isles get to keep their more important players and clear cap space to add a top 6 forward.

 

[Dipietro39]

Same here.

Another poster brought up a great point that Snow will leverage the fact that CDH went unprotected and WASN'T CLAIMED in arbitration as an RFA. Really smart business if true. May not work with an arbitrator, but it's worth the chance.

Exactly. Also shows confidence in Pelech.

If Snow doesn't make this deal, of course he protects CDH.

Ideally,if the Isles can somehow trade CDH/Hamonic + 2018 First + prospect (not barzal) to the Avs for Duchene and Strome + pick for Eberle, we should have a really good team.

 

[Nucker101]

Interesting...either McPhee or Snow is a clear winner here.

1) If the 1st is to protect the forwards + CDH then Snow wins big if all he had to do was give up a 1st to prtect that many assets..McPhee could easily hold out for more or simply just draft Nelson or De Haan

2) If the 1st is to only protect the forwards then McPhee wins big..De Haan + 1st is so much more valuable than any of the Isles exposed forwards


There really isn't any middle ground here unless Snow is giving up more than just the 1st to protect his 3 or 4 guys.