Is this a full rebuild or what?

[maplepred]

It appears this is going to be a full rebuild now after paying significant money to older role model players at free agency. These guys like Schenn and Oreilly will definitely be good to help along our prospects. We are not trying to win a cup currently with these additions though and letting guys like Duchene go for free…. Who is a year removed from 43 goals (86 points).

My question then, when does Forsberg, saros and Josi get dealt? I love these three but they aren’t in the age range we want for rebuild, especially Josi. Do we want to be competitive in 3 years or so and be paying a 37 year old defenseman major pay days still? Or should we cash in on him now and get a boat load to help the rebuild?
Also, do you think Forsberg still signs that extension seeing the direction the team is going now?
We do not have a terrible roster but I just think these guys are not part of a rebuild if that’s truly the route Trotz is taking us. Im fine with that but some tough decisions are looming then.
Sales value has never been so high and if we are rebuking and rebuilding he is a bad piece to have because he will steal games we have no business winning at all.

So what’s the plan?? Imagine the futures we could get for these three studs and really and truly make us a serious contender down the road.

What do you all think we should do?
Plain and simple, Forsberg, josi and saros are being wasted here now, other than their leadership skills, they aren’t winning a cup in the next few years though..

Click to read more...

 

[nine_inch_fang]

You didn't like the answers you had gotten in the other threads so you started a new one?

If you don't understand it now, nothing said in this thread will help you understand.

 

[Scoresberg]

It is not. If it was, they wouldn't have made the moves they made on Saturday.

They're changing the entire culture over and want to stay competitive while doing it.

 

[jumb0]

No

 

[maplepred]

You didn't like the answers you had gotten in the other threads so you started a new one?

If you don't understand it now, nothing said in this thread will help you understand.

Im sorry? What answers? I’m asking this now because I am confused if we are trying to wine now or full rebuild. So wanted some feedback. You don’t have to be snippy about it. I must have missed the thread this was addressed in… wow

It is not. If it was, they wouldn't have made the moves they made on Saturday.

They're changing the entire culture over and want to stay competitive while doing it.

I just mean losing duchene who had almost 90 points(over 40 goals) a year ago for free then bringing in aging guys that won’t really help us win but are good for the young guys as mentors. Gave me a full rebuild feel so that’s why I posted this.
Im sure guys like FF, saros and josi want to win a cup and currently this team is not trying to do that and I question with their ages if they are aged out of our cup window?

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Im sorry? What answers? I’m asking this now because I am confused if we are trying to wine now or full rebuild. So wanted some feedback. You don’t have to be snippy about it. I must have missed the thread this was addressed in… wow


I just mean losing duchene who had almost 90 points(over 40 goals) a year ago for free then bringing in aging guys that won’t really help us win but are good for the young guys as mentors. Gave me a full rebuild feel so that’s why I posted this.
Im sure guys like FF, saros and josi want to win a cup and currently this team is not trying to do that and I question with their ages if they are aged out of our cup window?

Check the Duchene and Offseason Trotz Era theeads

 

[Scoresberg]

My reaction after the Duchene buyout was "Saros next".

By that I pretty much meant that the only way for this team to truly dive to the bottom requires moving Saros out. They're clearly not doing that, so that leaves option number two, which is re-tooling on the fly and staying competitive. The moves they've made during the past week have been logical to that plan.

I'd say the plan overall is progressing quite nicely although some high-end talent is needed if we truly want to reach contender status.

 

[101st_fan]

It's such a full rebuild that we're tearing the arena down and moving it exactly .05mm north [/sarcasm]

 

[herzausstein]

In terms of culture, this is a scorched earth razing.

In terms of on ice compete and product, it seems more status quo but with an rye turned toward the future. We will still be seeing some additional turnover over the next couple seasons

 

[adsfan]

It's such a full rebuild that we're tearing the arena down and moving it exactly .05mm north [/sarcasm]

I think that you can get about 100 fans together and do that yourselves. It would be closer to Broadway.

 

[maplepred]

My reaction after the Duchene buyout was "Saros next".

By that I pretty much meant that the only way for this team to truly dive to the bottom requires moving Saros out. They're clearly not doing that, so that leaves option number two, which is re-tooling on the fly and staying competitive. The moves they've made during the past week have been logical to that plan.

I'd say the plan overall is progressing quite nicely although some high-end talent is needed if we truly want to reach contender status.

I just feel like a half assed on the fly rebuild will bring the same moderate results as before. Solid team always in playoffs but no real game breakers to win a cup.
We need to fully rebuild if we want to come back stronger than ever. The assets we could get for josi Forsberg saros would be insane!

Colorado tanked hard and got Mackinnon
Pittsburgh with Crosby and malkin
Caps for ovie
Hawks for Kane and toews
Etc

We don’t get players like that without picking super high. This roster does not allow us even a top five pick. So are we rebuilding for mediocrity or what? I guess that’s my question.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I just feel like a half assed on the fly rebuild will bring the same moderate results as before. Solid team always in playoffs but no real game breakers to win a cup.
We need to fully rebuild if we want to come back stronger than ever. The assets we could get for josi Forsberg saros would be insane!

Colorado tanked hard and got Mackinnon
Pittsburgh with Crosby and malkin
Caps for ovie
Hawks for Kane and toews
Etc

We don’t get players like that without picking super high. This roster does not allow us even a top five pick. So are we rebuilding for mediocrity or what? I guess that’s my question.

There it is. Blinded by the lazy loser mentality.

Like I said, you didn't like the answers in the other thread so you started this one to focus on intentionally losing.

 

[NSH615]

I just feel like a half assed on the fly rebuild will bring the same moderate results as before. Solid team always in playoffs but no real game breakers to win a cup.
We need to fully rebuild if we want to come back stronger than ever. The assets we could get for josi Forsberg saros would be insane!

Colorado tanked hard and got Mackinnon
Pittsburgh with Crosby and malkin
Caps for ovie
Hawks for Kane and toews
Etc

We don’t get players like that without picking super high. This roster does not allow us even a top five pick. So are we rebuilding for mediocrity or what? I guess that’s my question.

who did St. Louis tank for?

A cup team doesn't have to bottom out just to get "that" player. It also doesn't always work out. What luck has AZ, NYR, NJ, and Buffalo had with their bottoming out. Intentionally tanking for the sole purpose of an early draft pick doesn't always work out. Ask Edmonton who after a decade finally made it to a conference final and that was after 6+ years of the best player in the world. And what about Toronto with their main 4? For every team that tanks and has cup wins not long after, there's also the Buffalo's, Edmonton's, Toronto's and Arizona's that either can't get out of the basement despite years of high draft picks or manage to have excellent regular seasons and get into the playoffs only to get stopped in round 1 most of the time leaving them in no different place than an 8th seed who barely gets in.

I will also add that St Louis won with a coaching change that changed the culture. That culture change is what Trotz is aiming for here.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Or what.

I yield #1/2 in our division to Colorado and Dallas in the coming season.

I think we should be pushing for #3, at least in the mix with whatever teams play well out of Minneota, St.Louis, Winnipeg, and us.

As long as Brunette isn't some disaster as a coach, anyway. But I would have to think with Trotz in charge of that hire and providing guidance along the way that is hardly likely.

Where we go from #3 in the next couple seasons after this, well... mostly depends on how the kids progress, and on what we do with the $20M in Cap space we'll have next summer.

Think about it. We have elite goaltending. We have a very solid and deep D. The forward group has good depth down to an excellent 4th line. If the kids produce just at the blah levels of Duchene/Joey/Granlund we are in the playoffs. And it's onwards and upwards every season after that.

The future is so bright...

 

[NSH615]

The assets we could get for josi Forsberg saros would be insane!

I wanted to call out this. Josi and Forsberg have full NMC's. Therefore they get to dictate whether or not they get moved unless we buy them out, they also get to dictate where they get moved to which drastically lowers their value. Saros is interesting because he's a goalie. Historically goalies don't usually get get a kings ransom return even if they are top tier. Add in the cap situation teams are in and that just complicates all of this.

 

[PredsV82]

@maplepred when you say "rebuild" what you are really saying is you want us to purposely suck for multiple years in hopes of hitting the draft lottery.

That's a course fraught with peril, because for every success story there are failures that would wreck this franchise. Look at Philadelphia, the got a 2OA and ended up with Nolan Patrick.

There is nothing wrong with this approach, and a lot right. Instead of instilling the attitude in a bunch of young players that losing is ok because we are gonna get better draft picks, you teach the kids from day 1 how to compete and win.

I like it.

 

[maplepred]

There it is. Blinded by the lazy loser mentality.

Like I said, you didn't like the answers in the other thread so you started this one to focus on intentionally losing.

I didn’t read those ones. I’m reading this one. Don’t call me a loser dude I’m asking a question to others. You’re the loser if you cant be an adult and resort to name calling. Don’t reply I don’t care for your nonsense remarks anyways it’s not constructive. Cheers

@maplepred when you say "rebuild" what you are really saying is you want us to purposely suck for multiple years in hopes of hitting the draft lottery.

That's a course fraught with peril, because for every success story there are failures that would wreck this franchise. Look at Philadelphia, the got a 2OA and ended up with Nolan Patrick.

There is nothing wrong with this approach, and a lot right. Instead of instilling the attitude in a bunch of young players that losing is ok because we are gonna get better draft picks, you teach the kids from day 1 how to compete and win.

I like it.

Thank you
That’s a great Insight and great breakdown. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[101st_fan]

The "rebuild" has been underway for a few years. Evangalista, Tomasino, Parssinen, Afanasyev, L'Hereaux, Svechkov, Kemmel ... bringing in Glass ... with the old man Novak in the mix up front; Askarov and Jatkola between the pipes. That's without factoring last week's draft picks.

 

[BigFatCat999]

My opinion: The vets are on ice coaches. Put on the team as an example for the kids to be better than. ROR and Nyqvist are a push to Johansen and Duchene. TOI says that ROR and Nyqvist are well rounded players. Both log multiple minutes a game on PP and PK. IF, and I repeat iF, the Preds make one more trade they will move a RHD or two. Before the Schenn signing the Preds had one too many RHD, now they have 2.

Part of me wonders if it's a deal for BOTH Fabbro and Carrier for a forward? I could be wrong. Guessing can lead to being wrong, But find me teams with more than one Center and desperately need RHD; San Jose and Edmonton are a start. Or a super upgrade at RW. Force Tommasino and Vange to be better.

Barrie is PP QB, Schenn is PKer. Fits if the Preds go with 4 forwards 1 D PP. Josi for PP1 and Barrie for PP2.

To boil it down, Reload to foster kids who are in Nashville. Massive reload in Milwaukee, (damn good team who are given 4 1sts to improve who might be in Nashville this season).

Off-season is not done. Go touch grass and relax. Use notifications to alert. I'll be in Niagara Falls being a clown, giving kids candy at the parade. If y'all behave I might have photos of fireworks over the falls and Eternal Flame Falls!

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I just feel like a half assed on the fly rebuild will bring the same moderate results as before. Solid team always in playoffs but no real game breakers to win a cup.
We need to fully rebuild if we want to come back stronger than ever. The assets we could get for josi Forsberg saros would be insane!

Colorado tanked hard and got Mackinnon
Pittsburgh with Crosby and malkin
Caps for ovie
Hawks for Kane and toews
Etc

We don’t get players like that without picking super high. This roster does not allow us even a top five pick. So are we rebuilding for mediocrity or what? I guess that’s my question.

Just a minor nitpick, but Colorado had at least two tanking cycles that led to their Cup winning roster. The first was Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, etc..., then they went into the tank a second time and got Mackinnon, Makar, etc... They had a 9 season span where they only made the post-season twice. They were just a bit off Edmonton/Buffalo tier because of a brief window of mediocrity alongside that suckage--of course they've won a Cup now so it's "irrelevant."

 

[hido]

The burn it all down thing is never going to happen here. You go with a team that can't win more than 35 games a year for several years and you are looking at 8,000 people in that arena. Hockey is somewhat ingrained in the town now after 25 years but it's nothing remotely close to the cities with 100 years of NHL culture. Those folks will support crappy teams through tough times because it's part of the makeup of the city. Like SEC football in the South. Or the NFL everywhere in the US.

You make the first or second round every year in Nashville, you draw 16-18,000. You finish in last place and get a top pick, you still don't draw s*it until the team is relevant again. And the NHL is heavily reliant on ticket sales. Hell, look at our GDT #s. On a random Tuesday in November we get a few pages of comments. Toronto has like 3,000 pages. You guys and gals are among the top 1% of Preds fans as far as knowledge goes. But there's how many of us? Nashville's kind of a hockey town, but it ain't enough of one to sustain being awful for 5-7 years.

All that being said, I think DP and BT have done a good job and made things very interesting. I don't know if bringing in "winners" will be magic, but it is a new strategy for this team and I am excited to see how it plays out.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Barry Trotz was a master at getting more than the sum of his parts. I will be interested to see if that ability and mindset trickles down to Bruno.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

It appears that, as others have said, we are going for an rebuild-on-the-fly strategy with a cultural overhaul at the center of it rather than a true burn-it-down approach. It wouldn't have been my first choice (as I've voiced in other threads with sentiments that line up more with you, maplepred), but that's what Trotz has decided.

For my two cents, I think we should have improved team culture significantly without handing out three hefty contracts until the players are 36, hamstringing our future flexibility. One-year deals for different positive-culture players could have been had, and we could have weaponized the cap space to bring in both leaders and picks (Chicago getting Bailey+2nd for nothing, as an example). This would get us mentors without sacrificing future cap while bringing in players that drag us toward the "mushy middle". Pair a few of those moves with bringing in "change of scenery" types like Zadina and you've got my ideal offseason.

Re: revenue and the empty arena, I think we could handle 2-3 years of being a bottom 10 team. Particularly if we limited salaries and saved the owners $10M+ that way, the roots are deep enough we would have been ok. My focus for the team is winning a cup, and it's virtually impossible to do that without top picks on the team, so the risk is worth the reward IMO.

All that said, super excited to see what the new look team can do this year and beyond. It's been a long time since we've had this promising of a group of young players.

 

[originalpredfan]

Or what.

I yield #1/2 in our division to Colorado and Dallas in the coming season.

I think we should be pushing for #3, at least in the mix with whatever teams play well out of Minneota, St.Louis, Winnipeg, and us.

As long as Brunette isn't some disaster as a coach, anyway. But I would have to think with Trotz in charge of that hire and providing guidance along the way that is hardly likely.

Where we go from #3 in the next couple seasons after this, well... mostly depends on how the kids progress, and on what we do with the $20M in Cap space we'll have next summer.

Think about it. We have elite goaltending. We have a very solid and deep D. The forward group has good depth down to an excellent 4th line. If the kids produce just at the blah levels of Duchene/Joey/Granlund we are in the playoffs. And it's onwards and upwards every season after that.

The future is so bright...

Certainly glad to see that a number of others on this board are optimistic about our teams future. I've considered myself as cautiously optimistic after last seasons final few weeks, but I am now ready to remove the (cautiously) designation from my optimism. I feel we are going to be pleasantly surprised by our 2023/24 product on the ice, and I personally believe at least three of our young prospect forwards that played those final few weeks for the Preds and/or Admirals will eventually be the nucleus of our team for years to come.

 

[Scoresberg]

One-year deals for different positive-culture players could have been had, and we could have weaponized the cap space to bring in both leaders and picks (Chicago getting Bailey+2nd for nothing, as an example).

I sincerely hope you aren't comparing Ryan O'Reilly to Josh Bailey on any sort of level.