Is there an issue with Finnish development system ?

Mestaruus

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Apr 11, 2011
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Various valid questions here, but any negative reference to the U20 tournament may be an overreaction. This is a game of moments and fine margins. Finland was 2-0 up in the semis and very narrowly lost 2-3; had they managed to get the W, regardless of the outcome of the gold medal game, everyone would speak of this tournament as a tremendous Finnish success. Likewise, the tournament would be regarded as relatively successful (albeit with a painful semifinal loss) had the bronze medal game ended a mere minute before it ended… Small margins.

Honestly, the bronze didn't matter that much. It was more about how everything happened.

It was a miracle that Finland was able to get that far (4th) with that kind of penalty killing. Literally every time there was a PP for opponent, opponent would score. The only question was, how many seconds it would take for the opposing team to score. Very often it took just 10-12 seconds. It was more of Finland's weakness than opponents' PP ability, because it was a repeating pattern game after game.

Add to that the fact that Finland's own PP was also below average. Usually a team can't go far with just even strength play.

Then there was the thing that the coaching staff wasn't able to coach second periods. Choosing the starting goalie wasn't so great either. #1 goalie with 1-4 record, while the back up goalie had 2-0 record, with one win against Sweden.

On top of this all, the Finnish press said during the tournament that this same head coach would be continuing next year. I don't think a single Finnish ice hockey fan wants to see that, except that coache's wife maybe.
 

SantosHalper

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Mar 21, 2012
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Would there be so much concern if Finland hadn't blown that bronze medal game yesterday? Finland's won medals in 6 out of the last 8 Winter Olympics (pro tournaments except the Gold they won in 2022). 2 Golds and 3 Silvers in the last 10 World Championships. 2 Golds, 1 Silver and 1 Bronze in the last 10 World Juniors. 2 of the Top 10 NHL players in scoring at the moment. From the outside, it looks like things are going pretty well.
Yes. Like i have already mentioned, there was a crisis meeting that took place in 2008 or 09, around that time anyway. Erkka Westerlund called the meeting and basically said that finnish hockey is going to shitter. Then they did some changes to junior coaching and the result was what you just listed.

But the problem is that we stopped evolving with the times, hockey evolves all the time and Finland is stucked to what they decided more than 15 years ago. Big problem is skating, even our most elite players biggest problem is skating. Except Heiskanen, but Heiskanen put lot of work in his skating.

Biggest problem along with skating is Liiga, the level of hockey has plummet. There is just too many teams(16 next season) and not enough quality players therefore not enough competition. And also there is no relegation round, the bottom tier teams can sell off most of the team and play the remaining games with 3 lines and 2 of them are filled with U20 players. Absolute mockery of competetive sport.

If there is no competition how can our players develop to high standart of todays hockey? People in this threat focus too much on past results, when the problem is the future. Our top prospects in up coming draft, what are their ceilings? Helenius 2C? Hemming middle-6 winger, most likely another Kapanen. Kiviharju will be a bust, most over hyped and overrated prospect in finnish history. Veeti Väisänen, next Jokiharju or Honka?

Finland winning a medal would have just made the Finnish ice hockey association to turn the blind eye on these problems. They have all the money and power to fix this mess, but last 2 years they have been more interested selling tickets to big corporations. Which totally ruined the atmosphere in B2B home tournaments. Compare the 2016 WJC tournament atmosphere, created by real hockey fans to the atmosphere created by the corporate clowns in 2022 & 2023.

Just look at these numbers....... blaming on the coaching staff is easy but only few coaches can turn shit to chocolate.

Still going back to skating, see just how fast paced game the gold medal game was. There is no way in hell Finland could have kept up with that. And our kids supposed to play in "pro league".
 
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Czechboy

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Yes. Like i have already mentioned, there was a crisis meeting that took place in 2008 or 09, around that time anyway. Erkka Westerlund called the meeting and basically said that finnish hockey is going to shitter. Then they did some changes to junior coaching and the result was what you just listed.

But the problem is that we stopped evolving with the times, hockey evolves all the time and Finland is stucked to what they decided more than 15 years ago. Big problem is skating, even our most elite players biggest problem is skating. Except Heiskanen, but Heiskanen put lot of work in his skating.

Biggest problem along with skating is Liiga, the level of hockey has plummet. There is just too many teams(16 next season) and not enough quality players therefore not enough competition. And also there is no relegation round, the bottom tier teams can sell off most of the team and play the remaining games with 3 lines and 2 of them are filled with U20 players. Absolute mockery of competetive sport.

If there is no competition how can our players develop to high standart of todays hockey? People in this threat focus too much on past results, when the problem is the future. Our top prospects in up coming draft, what are their ceilings? Helenius 2C? Hemming middle-6 winger, most likely another Kapanen. Kiviharju will be a bust, most over hyped and overrated prospect in finnish history. Veeti Väisänen, next Jokiharju or Honka?

Finland winning a medal would have just made the Finnish ice hockey association to turn the blind eye on these problems. They have all the money and power to fix this mess, but last 2 years they have been more interested selling tickets to big corporations. Which totally ruined the atmosphere in B2B home tournaments. Compare the 2016 WJC tournament atmosphere, created by real hockey fans to the atmosphere created by the corporate clowns in 2022 & 2023.



Just look at these numbers....... blaming on the coaching staff is easy but only few coaches can turn shit to chocolate.

Still going back to skating, see just how fast paced game the gold medal game was. There is no way in hell Finland could have kept up with that. And our kids supposed to play in "pro league".
It's funny because a lot of our better Czechs are going to FInland because our leagues are so bad and the Finn's are saying their league is bad. If I'm being honest, when I hear a good Czech prospect goes to Finland I am happy they left Czech league. Malek and Malik might be the next 2 after Dostal. Hamara was our best D and he came from your system and not ours. Kos brothers, I think a Svozil.
 

SantosHalper

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It's funny because a lot of our better Czechs are going to FInland because our leagues are so bad and the Finn's are saying their league is bad. If I'm being honest, when I hear a good Czech prospect goes to Finland I am happy they left Czech league. Malek and Malik might be the next 2 after Dostal. Hamara was our best D and he came from your system and not ours. Kos brothers, I think a Svozil.
But they leave pretty fast. Best finnish '07 born went to play in Sweden, there is something seriously wrong in finnish player development now.

But Finland still plays very well as a team, so maybe that is the best lesson your boys learn from Finland. But then they leave to get actually better in hockey.

I think Radek Koblizek is the only Czech who stayed in Finland to have career here. Arrived to Finland when he was 15, after that 1 season in Czechia but all the other seasons in Finland. And he's not really the biggest gun you got in Europe.

Back in the day Liiga use to have stars from Czechia. Janecky, Caloun, Tenkrat, Bros, Ujcik, Rosa, Machulda, Ton, Kucera, Kohn, Vykoukal, Zidlicky, Kucharnik, those were the days.
 
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Czechboy

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But they leave pretty fast. Best finnish '07 born went to play in Sweden, there is something seriously wrong in finnish player development now.

But Finland still plays very well as a team, so maybe that is the best lesson your boys learn from Finland. But then they leave to get actually better in hockey.

I think Radek Koblizek is the only Czech who stayed in Finland to have career here. Arrived to Finland when he was 15, after that 1 season in Czechia but all the other seasons in Finland. And he's not really the biggest gun you got in Europe.

Back in the day Liiga use to have stars from Czechia. Janecky, Caloun, Tenkrat, Bros, Ujcik, Rosa, Machulda, Ton, Kucera, Kohn, Vykoukal, Zidlicky, Kucharnik, those were the days.
I feel like we always have a bunch in your league...

with KHL not an option a lot of Czechs seems to cycle between Sweden/Finland and hope for a NLA gig.
1704590741801.png


Several NT members in here.... Bares just got Bronze. Kovarcik brothers doing well on EHT. Masin with a comeback tour and may make Prague team. Zabransky has strong extraliga ties and still left.lol I am hoping Kral is on our team in Spring. Jordan has always been on the NT but the Czech posters don't like him very much.haha
 
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Czechboy

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I feel like we always have a bunch in your league...

with KHL not an option a lot of Czechs seems to cycle between Sweden/Finland and hope for a NLA gig.
View attachment 797697

Several NT members in here.... Bares just got Bronze. Kovarcik brothers doing well on EHT. Masin with a comeback tour and may make Prague team. Zabransky has strong extraliga ties and still left.lol I am hoping Kral is on our team in Spring. Jordan has always been on the NT but the Czech posters don't like him very much.haha
Liiga may have more NT guys in Prague than Extraliga.lol
 

WayTooCold

Registered User
Jun 9, 2023
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While Finns have first-hand knowledge of what's going on, sometimes an outside perspective is a little less emotional and biased.

Would there be so much concern if Finland hadn't blown that bronze medal game yesterday? Finland's won medals in 6 out of the last 8 Winter Olympics (pro tournaments except the Gold they won in 2022). 2 Golds and 3 Silvers in the last 10 World Championships. 2 Golds, 1 Silver and 1 Bronze in the last 10 World Juniors. 2 of the Top 10 NHL players in scoring at the moment. From the outside, it looks like things are going pretty well.

It's kinda a bad sign when our team could only play the first period then gas out in the second.
FEL is so soft. On Czech team Künichi trains 1000 shots everyday. Nobody on Finnish team does that.

Those:
1 x Olympic gold
3 x WCH golds
1 x WJC gold
were headcoached by J. Jalonen. w/o Jalonen take those 5 gold medals out and it looks really bad.
 
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Czechboy

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It's kinda a bad sign when our team could only play the first period then gas out in the second.
FEL is so soft. On Czech team Künichi trains 1000 shots everyday. Nobody on Finnish team does that.

Those:
1 x Olympic gold
3 x WCH golds
1 x WJC gold
were headcoached by J. Jalonen. w/o Jalonen take those 5 gold medals out and it looks really bad.
I mean, yes, if you take away all those sensational gold's then things are really bad.
 

Mestaruus

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Apr 11, 2011
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It's funny because a lot of our better Czechs are going to FInland because our leagues are so bad and the Finn's are saying their league is bad. If I'm being honest, when I hear a good Czech prospect goes to Finland I am happy they left Czech league. Malek and Malik might be the next 2 after Dostal. Hamara was our best D and he came from your system and not ours. Kos brothers, I think a Svozil.

I would say that the top players of the Finnish League/Liiga are pretty good, but the overall level may not be what some Finnish fans would hope for. Maybe those Czechia players you mentioned are Liiga's cream of the crop as well and these players would get some of the best salary in Liiga. There's a good bunch of Finnish players in Liiga now that would still be in KHL if that was an option. I'd say at least 15 of them. The number could actually be close to 20-30. I'm not quite sure. To mention a few: Pakarinen, Jori Lehterä, Ohtamaa, Petteri Lindbohm, Melart, Kemppainen, Oula Palve and that's only a few of the older players. The list is quite lenghty. KHL disappearing as an option for players and coaches did raise the level of Liiga a bit, but that had same effect on all leagues. When you pay a lot to these KHL level players, the teams' budgets most likely get tighter from the other end and they would cut the salaries of the players that aren't as good.
 
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