Is there an issue with Finnish development system ?

[ViD]

I was looking at the recent drafts and noticed that there is not many Finnish players going in the first round:

2021: 0
2022: 2
2023: 0

If you look at the Athletic top 100 list of U23 players, there’s just a few Finnish names with most notable being Lundell and Kakko who aren’t the youngest prospects either.

https://theathletic.com/4805966/202...-23-connor-bedard/?source=user_shared_article
Ranking the best NHL players and prospects under 23: Connor Bedard tops the list

Adding to it, a bad start by the Finnish team at 2024 U20, all of it raises a question - is there an issue with Finnish development system ?

What happened ? The popularity of the sport dropped or there are other factors ?

Click to read more...

 

[Czechboy]

I'm not sure there is.. but I 'think' they also lost every QF last year. U20, U18 and Hlinka. However, I could be wrong.

My answer is that they have a small population be this good for this long. It's a slight down 2 years followed by a resurgence incoming.

Also, Kemmel and Kvirijarhu would've helped here.

 

[FinPanda]

There is a problem with Finnish hockey yes. Our association got too satisfied and lost the hunger for success. They have money but they aren't putting it to improve our coaching. Liiga is not very good for any players since the level of the league has been declining because there is too many teams in the league.

So
- Not enough skills training
- Old sauna club recycling of coaches, teams don't get the coaching they deserve and coaches get jobs based on being part of it and not because of their skills
- Association too lazy to do anything about it
- Liiga level lower so players not getting the high level environment to improve themselves

 

[Junohockeyfan]

There are ebbs and flows in talent from smaller hockey nations. No amount of training / coaching can change that.

 

[Czechboy]

There is a problem with Finnish hockey yes. Our association got too satisfied and lost the hunger for success. They have money but they aren't putting it to improve our coaching. Liiga is not very good for any players since the level of the league has been declining because there is too many teams in the league.

So
- Not enough skills training
- Old sauna club recycling of coaches, teams don't get the coaching they deserve
- Association too lazy to do anything about it
- Liiga level lower so players not getting the high level environment to improve themselves

In Edmonton, we call it to the 'boys on the bus' or 'old boys club'. Love the Sauna Club reference.

In Czech, the Extraliga owners/organization is a big part of our problem.

In fact, a lot of our good Czechs go to Finland to join the Old Sauna Club. Eg. Tomas Hamara is being interviewed right now in the 2nd intermission. I believe Badinka left for you guys too.

 

[vorky]

Generally speaking Finland, and not only Finland, will face a greatest challenge soon. Due to lack of recources they will have just two choices a) to be more dependant on NA or b) decline the level of hockey development. Their choice.

 

[JJTT]

There is a problem with Finnish hockey yes. Our association got too satisfied and lost the hunger for success. They have money but they aren't putting it to improve our coaching. Liiga is not very good for any players since the level of the league has been declining because there is too many teams in the league.

So
- Not enough skills training
- Old sauna club recycling of coaches, teams don't get the coaching they deserve and coaches get jobs based on being part of it and not because of their skills
- Association too lazy to do anything about it
- Liiga level lower so players not getting the high level environment to improve themselves

Plus liitto killed our u20, u18 and u16 leagues with too many bad teams and not enough quality games. How does playing games ending with scores like 12-3 help anyone.

 

[SantosHalper]

Yes.

Finland is losing in skating, shooting, passing, 1 on 1's and now tachtically as well. Finnish hockey is in massive decline. Player development is poor, Liiga is trash league now a days. Too many teams and not enough quality players.

Without massive changes finnish hockey will crash and burn. "Sauna Club" or as i say "Vierumäki Gentlemans Club" needs to be fired. Finnish ice hockey association is rich as F***, it's time to put money in better use.

 

[Peiskos]

Finland will be fine, 2014, 2016, 2019 world junior golds weren't some random coincidence. Before that it was just 1987 and 1998.

You look at the IIHF Men's tournament and there's been recent success there too 2011, 2019, 2022 WC golds, before that it was just 1995.

You can actually put forth a legitimate argument that Finland has been experiencing its most successful period in history within these past 10-15 years. I don't think there's an issue, Finland is a small nation, its unlikely it'll maintain the same consistency of success as a country like Canada for example.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Finland is a small country and as long as Russia is being kept off there is a lot more pressure on them to be consistently competitive to keep international hockey competitive. It’s probably not super realistic for their player pool size. They’ve punched above their weight for a long time and they are going to have lulls.

Hard for me to say without more knowledge if Finnish kids would be better off following the lead of kids from Czechia and Slovakia and coming to North America once they hit junior ages or if Finland is still a satisfactory place for development.

 

[Xirik]

don't worry, Lenni Hämeenaho will save the team!

 

[Lambo]

The Finns reminds me of Germany in football(soccer). After the great german success in 2014, things went steadily downhill! Too much self-satisfaction and too much looking back at the past (what a great time, the last 10 - 15 years). But these days you can't rest in any sport. You always have to be hungry. For me, the way Finland is playing now is terrible. Today I had the feeling that the Finnish players think they are very great. You seem to think you are highly gifted. They constantly tried to tunnel and outplay German players 1 against 1. But they just can't do it. They're not good enough for it. I wonder where this thinking comes from? Because too many were drafted or are draft candidates? Finland must rely on its own strengths again and not try to play like the Soviet Union. This just goes wrong! There is no class for that!

 

[vorky]

-.......

 

[WarriorofTime]

They constantly tried to tunnel and outplay German players 1 against 1. But they just can't do it. They're not good enough for it. I wonder where this thinking comes from? Because too many were drafted or are draft candidates?

What, no credit to the Germans for playing well? Not every sport loss is a moral failing. The 05s in particular are not very strong for Finland, and they aren't a large enough country to bring U20 teams that aren't a mix of both good 18 and 19 year olds if they are going to be competitive in a given year.

 

[Hanji]

Yes.

Finland is losing in skating, shooting, passing, 1 on 1's and now tachtically as well. Finnish hockey is in massive decline. Player development is poor, Liiga is trash league now a days. Too many teams and not enough quality players.

Without massive changes finnish hockey will crash and burn. "Sauna Club" or as i say "Vierumäki Gentlemans Club" needs to be fired. Finnish ice hockey association is rich as F***, it's time to put money in better use.

Ironically, could these problems have been exacerbated by Finland winning?

I rarely consider Finland among the most talented teams in any given tournament, yet they are a nightmare to play against. They're masters of team play, defense, structure, etc. Sisu! But this isn't an ideal strategy to implement generation to generation, let alone seep into the junior game (younger than U20).
You can't let systems take precedence over talent in the development department.

 

[Lambo]

What, no credit to the Germans for playing well? Not every sport loss is a moral failing. The 05s in particular are not very strong for Finland, and they aren't a large enough country to bring U20 teams that aren't a mix of both good 18 and 19 year olds if they are going to be competitive in a given yea

What, no credit to the Germans for playing well? Not every sport loss is a moral failing. The 05s in particular are not very strong for Finland, and they aren't a large enough country to bring U20 teams that aren't a mix of both good 18 and 19 year olds if they are going to be competitive in a given year.

The theme is Finland and I described the way they played. Of course Germany did it well. Maybe the NHL scouts should take a closer look.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

No , they had a good crop of unsustainable young talent for the population they have , they should rise up again soon enough

 

[Stephen]

Not necessarily a comment on the state of Finland in the WJC's right this moment, but the prestige of the Finnish system took a bit of a hit with what seems like an entire lost generation of high picks that haven't panned out at the NHL level.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i think the drafting thing is because teams are uncertain of their ability to scout and project finnish players due to recent poor outcomes. there have been a bunch of prominent finnish draft busts or disappointments where teams missed problems and players failed to continue to develop.

puljujarvi, juolevi and kakko are top 5 pick busts. laine has had moments but is nowhere near what he might have been. atu raty and brad lambert were at one time highly rated prospects that fell hard before they were drafted .

even slafkofsky came up in the finnish system and it looks like is not going to be what montreal thought he was.

 

[WayTooCold]

As a Finn looking at the Germany game. Just a sloppy half assed effort. Can't beat anyone like that. Latvia game is really critical.
Finnish system in general just produces grinding team players. Not big stars.

 

[Czechboy]

following the lead of kids from Czechia and Slovakia and coming to North America once they hit junior ages

Strongly AVOID that strategy in Finland! It's destroying our Junior leagues. I'm hoping the trend reverses and they fix our Junior Leagues to be honest.

more than half our Hlinka team left after the silver medal. That isn't good at all.

To be clear, I blame the Czechs for this!

 

[Czechboy]

There have definitely been some Finnish draft busts BUT, at the same time, in the exact same timeline a LOT of really good Finn's didn't bust al all.

I agree with above, if you look at the last decade.. it's the greatest in Finnish history. Most those guys are young too... if we ever get a best on best.. watch out for Finland...

Saros in net
Heisk manning the D and playing heavy minutes
Forward with Selke style games and .ppg

They have it all right now.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Strongly AVOID that strategy in Finland! It's destroying our Junior leagues. I'm hoping the trend reverses and they fix our Junior Leagues to be honest.

more than half our Hlinka team left after the silver medal. That isn't good at all.

To be clear, I blame the Czechs for this!

Yes, it's worse for a country on a long-term basis to have their junior leagues raided and then ultimately destroyed into something that is but a small shell, but for individual players going through their own individual development (without regard for the more systemic matters), it can make sense.

 

[vorky]

Strongly AVOID that strategy in Finland! It's destroying our Junior leagues. I'm hoping the trend reverses and they fix our Junior Leagues to be honest.

more than half our Hlinka team left after the silver medal. That isn't good at all.

To be clear, I blame the Czechs for this!

What I wrote about Finland can be transfered to Czech rep. as well. Socio-economic problems will prevent the development of hockey in the country.

 

[_vivelequebec_]

even slafkofsky came up in the finnish system and it looks like is not going to be what montreal thought he was.

That is not true.