Is the FHL back to 5 teams?

[JMCx4]

... A team in North Carolina? At this rate just pony up for the SPHL. I mean they at least have a team in Virginia.

Don't turn up your nose at the Carolina Thunderbirds' inclusion in the FHL portfolio. That team's attendance in 2017-18 (2100+ per night) may well have kept the League alive. There were hints that their President/GM has explored membership in the SPHL, but I doubt multi-team owner Barry Soskin (Carolina, Port Huron & Danville) would agree to that move without being promised a similar position of influence.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Don't turn up your nose at the Carolina Thunderbirds' inclusion in the FHL portfolio. That team's attendance in 2017-18 (2100+ per night) may well have kept the League alive. There were hints that their President/GM has explored membership in the SPHL, but I doubt multi-team owner Barry Soskin (Carolina, Port Huron & Danville) would agree to that move without being promised a similar position of influence.

Im not knovking, im nitpicking the fact that theres an opponent farther away than SPHL opponents. The geography for theis league is bizarre. NY has 2 teams, North Carolina has a team, Illinois and Michigan. Im sure the news messed up when posting this but they showed there were also teams in Cornwall, which is Ontario, North Shore which ive never heard of and another city I cant think of. The article in the paper says a team is coming to Ohio.

Any time a league has an owner owning multiple teams im skeptical. I also believe Kirnian was involved with the old UHL. Ive read mixed things about Barry Soskin.

All in all I struggle seeing long term viability for this league.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

If anything today just confirms this was nothing but political. So they are going to let Robbie Nichols lease the arena with the option to buy it at some point. Hes not responsible for the arena debt on the mortgage which is over $3 million. So the Jackals folded and we went a year without hockey and down a level over a finalized deal where basically nothing has changed? Suddenly the broke IDA who was supposedly about out of funds in the spring of 2017 can afford to hang on to the arena?

Nevermind that Nichols had this FHL franchise acquired before it was announced the Jackals would fold.

Nevermind the county executive is retiring but his right hand man is in control of the IDA and is running in the fall to take his post as county executive.

I wouldnt be as angry if they werent joining a decent league here...or stable. I feel like this league only lasts as long as Soskin props up 3 teams. Like the Franke's with IHL2.0

Unless Robbie can convince old dudes like Chaz The Spaz Johnson and Frankie Littlejohn or something to come play I cant see this enticing people. In a way its the ECHL argument all over again. Same 5 teams coming in for 29 home games. Its too bad Danbury is no longer in the league.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Im not knovking, im nitpicking the fact that theres an opponent farther away than SPHL opponents. The geography for theis league is bizarre. NY has 2 teams, North Carolina has a team, Illinois and Michigan. Im sure the news messed up when posting this but they showed there were also teams in Cornwall, which is Ontario, North Shore which ive never heard of and another city I cant think of. The article in the paper says a team is coming to Ohio.

Any time a league has an owner owning multiple teams im skeptical. I also believe Kirnian was involved with the old UHL. Ive read mixed things about Barry Soskin.

All in all I struggle seeing long term viability for this league.

Cornwall dropped mid year last year, Elmira joins Mentor, Ohio.... SE

 

[Nightsquad]

I see nothing but an opportunity here. Elmira's arena obviously needs some work. Securing a tenant is probably key to getting liberal NYC run state government to give a neglected upstate small city a bone in the form of a grant for modest arena upgrades.

The FHL is likely the best fit for Elmira, the ECHL is heading into larger cities, mostly former AHL cities. The solid SPHL is nowhere in the footprint, and until someone creates a NPHL, a ACHL, or someone willing to invest in a USHL franchise this is Elmira's option at best. This is also a good thing for the FHL. Finally moving in a direction away from rec rinks, and keeping its New York roots.

Lastly, Robbie is a great hockey person. He has also invested his life in that area, establishing roots. He has proven himself not just a family man but a community man, he cares. Robbie knows hockey, and he knows the pulse of the community....I am rooting for Elmira, hope they make the best of this opportunity.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

When Nichols was the GM they were giving free tickets away like hot cakes, I assume this practice has continued with baseball because nobody was going to Pioneers games the last few years they had minor league ball. That was still in the early 2000s. I wasnt around for affiliated ball that ended in the very early 90s. In the late 90s up until the end they went from league to league. I think they were once in the NY PENN league with the last stop being the CAN-AM league. Lack of stability may have hurt or not having affiliated ball may have hurt, not really sure. But I struggle to believe people were finally interested for baseball by watching the idea of Summer Catch.

How it went down is shady. I question the guys involved here. This deal just adds to the arena debt though since the place will be used but Robbie isnt responsible for paying for it. He has the option to buy it down the road but I cant see anyone ever wanting the debt. One guy was willing and was pushed aside.

Havent kept up with the FHL but they used to play in rec rinks exclusively I believe. The players were also responsible for their own means of transportation for games and they had jobs. Yeah, UHL, ECHL, CHL and maybe even some AHL guys had jobs but those were in the summer not in season so they were focused on hockey. Every city wants a winning or tolerable product.

If I cant have the SPHL I would like good junior hockey. This league feels questionable long term stability wise and internally it doesnt seem strong. Not sure I love the idea of selling UHL type hockey as the marketing approach. The UHL was physical but those guys could play and hang in the minor league ranks to a degree.

I know this opinion is unpopular but I still think the system blows. Im really a fan of the minor league baseball setup. The ECHL and AHL are so big and all over the country now you really have enough to create two geographical leagues for AA and AAA. With the FHL and SPHL you have that to a smaller degree in A. The E got stale for the same reason this will. The schedule. 29 home games with 5 opponents? Less games but it about works out to how many of the home games were against like Reading, Wheeling and Trenton/Johnstown.

Dont think they will get the grant though. Its a selection year. I doubt the state is feeling charitable. Unless they can make a bribe but the city is broke anyway so it woulf be pointless for the state to do that. I also think it doesnt help that the place hasnt turned a profit in 18 years. The state has a lot of leverage in their favor to say no. Not to mention they need money for everything from the boards, glass, boilers, ice plant, roof and so on. The whole place needs a makeover. The biggest argument for the arena was that it would revitalize downtown. Hasnt done that and it wont do that. The real problem is the 3 guys who pushed for it and made the deal are now out of office. County exec came in that year and is conveniently retiring this fall. The mayor then and his right hand man werent around long after the deal. The place has almost never been on the tax roll. We are lucky there have been no known taxpayer funds. If they want to have an arena I mean fine but we have also seen they arent all that willing to be on the hook. A lot of people didnt want it because they feared it failing. While this is nice charity it still doesnt change the big picture and the worse that debt gets the worse things will get.

While I think Robbie is a decent guy the few times ive met him I also cant help but have some skepticism. He only came here because of the Afrs. He was fairly well connected to them and now no doubt with owning the baseball facility and team a long with the new hockey team and leasing the arena from the local government hes pretty well connected to them now as well. Afr wasnt a saint but the local government has proved the past few years to not really be any better,

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

When Nichols was the GM they were giving free tickets away like hot cakes, I assume this practice has continued with baseball because nobody was going to Pioneers games the last few years they had minor league ball. That was still in the early 2000s. I wasnt around for affiliated ball that ended in the very early 90s. In the late 90s up until the end they went from league to league. I think they were once in the NY PENN league with the last stop being the CAN-AM league. Lack of stability may have hurt or not having affiliated ball may have hurt, not really sure. But I struggle to believe people were finally interested for baseball by watching the idea of Summer Catch.

How it went down is shady. I question the guys involved here. This deal just adds to the arena debt though since the place will be used but Robbie isnt responsible for paying for it. He has the option to buy it down the road but I cant see anyone ever wanting the debt. One guy was willing and was pushed aside.

Havent kept up with the FHL but they used to play in rec rinks exclusively I believe. The players were also responsible for their own means of transportation for games and they had jobs. Yeah, UHL, ECHL, CHL and maybe even some AHL guys had jobs but those were in the summer not in season so they were focused on hockey. Every city wants a winning or tolerable product.

If I cant have the SPHL I would like good junior hockey. This league feels questionable long term stability wise and internally it doesnt seem strong. Not sure I love the idea of selling UHL type hockey as the marketing approach. The UHL was physical but those guys could play and hang in the minor league ranks to a degree.

I know this opinion is unpopular but I still think the system blows. Im really a fan of the minor league baseball setup. The ECHL and AHL are so big and all over the country now you really have enough to create two geographical leagues for AA and AAA. With the FHL and SPHL you have that to a smaller degree in A. The E got stale for the same reason this will. The schedule. 29 home games with 5 opponents? Less games but it about works out to how many of the home games were against like Reading, Wheeling and Trenton/Johnstown.

Dont think they will get the grant though. Its a selection year. I doubt the state is feeling charitable. Unless they can make a bribe but the city is broke anyway so it woulf be pointless for the state to do that. I also think it doesnt help that the place hasnt turned a profit in 18 years. The state has a lot of leverage in their favor to say no. Not to mention they need money for everything from the boards, glass, boilers, ice plant, roof and so on. The whole place needs a makeover. The biggest argument for the arena was that it would revitalize downtown. Hasnt done that and it wont do that. The real problem is the 3 guys who pushed for it and made the deal are now out of office. County exec came in that year and is conveniently retiring this fall. The mayor then and his right hand man werent around long after the deal. The place has almost never been on the tax roll. We are lucky there have been no known taxpayer funds. If they want to have an arena I mean fine but we have also seen they arent all that willing to be on the hook. A lot of people didnt want it because they feared it failing. While this is nice charity it still doesnt change the big picture and the worse that debt gets the worse things will get.

While I think Robbie is a decent guy the few times ive met him I also cant help but have some skepticism. He only came here because of the Afrs. He was fairly well connected to them and now no doubt with owning the baseball facility and team a long with the new hockey team and leasing the arena from the local government hes pretty well connected to them now as well. Afr wasnt a saint but the local government has proved the past few years to not really be any better,

tell that to the fans of Port Huron and Louisville, SE..... WHY was this forum and similar forums made aware of the Afr's disaster that Elmira followed suit.... why hasn't Louisville received another opportunity after Florida got embarassed by them by not paying prospects assigned to that franchise.... Nichols isn't the problem the AFR'S were and always were the main issue why the Jackals folded as they did and why no league has touched any of those three markets until now

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

tell that to the fans of Port Huron and Louisville, SE..... WHY was this forum and similar forums made aware of the Afr's disaster that Elmira followed suit.... why hasn't Louisville received another opportunity after Florida got embarassed by them by not paying prospects assigned to that franchise.... Nichols isn't the problem the AFR'S were and always were the main issue why the Jackals folded as they did and why no league has touched any of those three markets until now

The Jackals lasted like 4 years without Afr, granted it was like the worst hockey of the franchise before.

Sure, I know that but you can never be so sure about the ones connected to them either.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

There was supposed to be a press conference in Elmira tomorrow to announce the team name, head coach and some signings. Its been moved to Thursday August 2nd, That cant be good....

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

There was supposed to be a press conference in Elmira tomorrow to announce the team name, head coach and some signings. Its been moved to Thursday August 2nd, That cant be good....

uh, if that was the case, why is Elmira still on the FHL Site, I think the disconnect is Mentor and that announcement being not publicized

 

[GrGriffins]

uh, if that was the case, why is Elmira still on the FHL Site, I think the disconnect is Mentor and that announcement being not publicized

FHL Expands to Mentor, OH - Official Site of the Federal Hockey League

FHL EXPANDS TO MENTOR, OH

July 23, 2018

Mentor, OH - The Federal Hockey League announced on Monday a second expansion team for the 2018-19 season that will play at Mentor Civic Arena. The team will be called the Mentor Ice Breakers.

The Ice Breakers join Elmira, New York (team name to be announced at press conference next week) as the league’s two expansion franchises, bringing the FHL’s member count to six.

The Ice Breakers will be run by a local majority ownership group comprised of Dan Moon and Chris Bryniarski.

Additionally, Joe Pace, Sr. was announced as the team’s inaugural Head Coach and General Manager. Pace, Sr. has previous coaching experience in the FHL, spending the last 2 seasons as the head coach of the Port Huron Prowlers, where he led the Prowlers to a berth in the championship series in the 2017-18 season. Pace, Sr. also spent time as the Danville Dashers head coach between 2011-2013, and interim head coach of the Dayton Demoltion in 2016. Pace, Sr.’s role as a developer has seen players under his tutelage go on to be high NHL draft picks.

“We are excited to bring family friendly entertainment to the Eastern Cleveland Metro, Lake County, and the City of Mentor. We want to thank William Furman and the City of Mentor for working with us on a fair lease. Our goal is to bring affordable entertainment to Lake County. The beautiful Mentor Ice Arena is a great place to watch hockey and a great family venue. We are looking forward to watching Coach Pace put together an exciting product and bringing some hardware to Northeast Ohio” the ownership group said in a statement.

“I'm obviously very excited to be able to coach in Mentor. This opportunity will be something great. Being able to talk with some of the locals and visiting the area, it's a beautiful town and it is certainly ready for pro hockey” Pace, Sr. said. “It's going to take everyone to get this team ready and be successful right away. The arena, the ownership group, the community, and the local businesses are all on board. Bottom line is we are starting from scratch; it will take time and a lot of hard work. We'll need players who are ready for this challenge. Players who are good citizens, good hockey players, and good teammates.”

In the front office, Iain Duncan will serve a dual role as Assistant General Manager and Assistant Coach. Duncan was a former NHL player for the Winnipeg Jets between 1987-1991, and had a long professional hockey career with various minor league teams after that. Duncan was also named to Bowling Green State University’s “All-Century Team” in 2000.
Mentor will not have to wait long to play its first home game, as the Ice Breakers open the season at home on October 26th, the same day the FHL season begins.

FHL Commissioner Don Kirnan stated: “I believe [the Ice Breakers] will be an excellent opportunity for Ohio and other Midwest players to enter into North American pro hockey. Fans will enjoy the entire experience and at reasonable costs.”

The team will have a color scheme of Pro Silver, Navy Blue, Columbia Blue, and White, and feature a shark logo.
Mentor, Ohio is the largest city in Ohio’s Lake County with a population just under 50,000.

The Ice Breakers become the sixth team set to play in the FHL’s ninth season coming up in 2018-19. They join the Danville Dashers, Watertown Wolves, Port Huron Prowlers, Carolina Thunderbirds, and a team from Elmira, New York that will be named at a future press conference.

More information on the Mentor Ice Breakers can be found online at mentoricebreakers.com, on Facebook (Mentor Ice Breakers), or on Twitter (@FHLIceBreakers).

 

[GrGriffins]

uh, if that was the case, why is Elmira still on the FHL Site, I think the disconnect is Mentor and that announcement being not publicized

I think the disconnect is you. FHL league schedule released today and it has Elmira and Mentor, OH on it. Danville is playing 2 neutral site games in Battle Creek, MI. Still pushing for a team there sounds like.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I think the disconnect is you. FHL league schedule released today and it has Elmira and Mentor, OH on it. Danville is playing 2 neutral site games in Battle Creek, MI. Still pushing for a team there sounds like.

Mentor was known, Gr, but not to the extent as you posted, the focus has been Elmira after all that's transpired in that market, which is where the discussion was heading

 

[GrGriffins]

Mentor was known, Gr, but not to the extent as you posted, the focus has been Elmira after all that's transpired in that market, which is where the discussion was heading

FHL, HOCKEY, SPHL
REPORT: FHL adding two expansion teams for 2018-19 Season
We have CONFIRMATION that the Federal Hockey League is expanding to two more teams to play next season. Continue readingREPORT: FHL adding two expansion teams for 2018-19 Season

SHAWN BEDNARDMAY 27, 2018



FHL, HOCKEY, MINOR LEAGUE HOCKEY
Where the heck is the FHL Mentor announcement?
One strange thing has been the saga of the reported expansion team set to take the ice in Mentor, Ohio. The one expansion team and rumor that seems like a 99.9% lock, and one that has had two dates mentioned in which we could expect an announcement.
And yet, both of those dates that have been said by league officials have come and gone, and we still don’t officially have a team in Mentor. Continue readingWhere the heck is the FHL Mentor announcement?

ROVITZ7 JUNE 14, 2018

It was mentioned as far back as May 27th with the 2 stories I just posted through Scott Brand (Pres/GM of Carolina Thunderbirds). He gives insight of what is happening through the FHL through Bus League Hockey and at times releases info before the FHL does (which is much better than getting info through the FHL website).

Battle Creek, MI was also suppose to enter the FHL for the 2018-19 season, but they have some arena issues (not enough seating, repairs, etc) that they could not hammer out, so the FHL decided to host 2 neutral site games in Battle Creek, MI for the 2018-19 season to determine if they are ready for FHL for the 2019-20 season.

Dyer, IN was also mentioned as a possible FHL expansion team for 2018-19, but they decided to go to the USPHL league instead. The FHL also looked into Evanston, IL as a possible team, but they never heard back from the locals there.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

uh, if that was the case, why is Elmira still on the FHL Site, I think the disconnect is Mentor and that announcement being not publicized

The ECHL wasnt always quick to remove teams or add teams either. Irs just interesting because until last Wednesday it wasnt even a certain go. The longer in the summer you wait to assemble a team usually spells disaster.

It was mentioned as far back as May 27th with the 2 stories I just posted through Scott Brand (Pres/GM of Carolina Thunderbirds). He gives insight of what is happening through the FHL through Bus League Hockey and at times releases info before the FHL does (which is much better than getting info through the FHL website).

Battle Creek, MI was also suppose to enter the FHL for the 2018-19 season, but they have some arena issues (not enough seating, repairs, etc) that they could not hammer out, so the FHL decided to host 2 neutral site games in Battle Creek, MI for the 2018-19 season to determine if they are ready for FHL for the 2019-20 season.

Dyer, IN was also mentioned as a possible FHL expansion team for 2018-19, but they decided to go to the USPHL league instead. The FHL also looked into Evanston, IL as a possible team, but they never heard back from the locals there.

What id the USPHL? Is it stable or more so than the FHL? The FHL to me I struggle to see a future with all the franchise musical chairs over thw years

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

USPHL is junior hockey, looking to place kids into college. If Dyer chose to go with a USPHL team, at the level that charges tuition at that, then that should speak volumes into how little the people there wanted to do with the Fed.

They probably looked at the wasteland of teams that the Fed has left behind and decided that tier 3 junior hockey probably provided a bit more stability for selling their ice time long term and similar quality hockey (I've watched the Fed, played in the USPHL and it's embarrassingly close).

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Junior hockey charges tuitions? Why is that? Its not as if these teams are schools like in college where they are plying and learning from their academia staff.

 

[Captain Crash]

Junior hockey charges tuitions? Why is that? Its not as if these teams are schools like in college where they are plying and learning from their academia staff.

At Tier 3, yes. They charge 'tuition' because at that level, the business model assumes nearly no attendance or sponsorship revenue, so the players themselves shoulder costs. In return, players receive coaching, practice, ice time, equipment, travel, competition, and exposure to scouts from colleges and higher junior leagues.

USHL (Tier 1) and NAHL (Tier 2) are free to play. The independent NCDC is also free. You'd be surprised how many Canadian leagues below major junior charge some form of tuition as well.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Junior hockey charges tuitions? Why is that? Its not as if these teams are schools like in college where they are plying and learning from their academia staff.

USHL and NAHL (leagues that don't charge) have mostly midwest teams because that's where it's the only hockey option, and in some cases the only entertainment option in the market (i.e. Aberdeen, SD and Kearney, NE). UPSHL-NCDC division doesn't charge either, but that's because they tax the other teams in the organization to make up for the financial loss.

Look at the NAHL's East Division teams' attendance (minus Johnstown). The NAHL team in the center of Philadelphia had 6-7 million people within a half hour drive and played in front of an empty building despite extensive marketing. I've lived in the Northeast most of my life and if you're looking to go to a hockey game, I guarantee NHL is top of the list. Too pricey? AHL is closer and cheaper. Want to watch still ridiculously good hockey in a college football atmosphere for a bit less? Then NCAA D1 fits the bill. You still have ECHL and NCAA D2/3 on that list after that. There's too many options to watch higher levels of hockey and juniors doesn't win that battle in most of the United States.

Even in Canada, all of the Ontario leagues charge fees, even if they're quite a bit lower than Tier 3 US leagues. I think the BCHL is on of the few that doesn't charge tuition.

Speaking of which, the Fed is definitely competing with juniors for the same cities and towns. Markets where people will show up because it's one of the few entertainment options and certainly the only hockey one.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Speaking of which, the Fed is definitely competing with juniors for the same cities and towns. Markets where people will show up because it's one of the few entertainment options and certainly the only hockey one.

I hear you. Would rather watch juniors than the Fed. Guys in the Fed are going nowhere and unlike the UHL never went anywhere. I would be picky on my junior hockey. Wouldnt want this Tier 3 stuff but USHL, OHL or NAHL wouldnt be baad at all. NAHL is kind of the bottom of the junior toem poll though as far as those are concerned.

USHL and NAHL (leagues that don't charge) have mostly midwest teams because that's where it's the only hockey option, and in some cases the only entertainment option in the market (i.e. Aberdeen, SD and Kearney, NE). UPSHL-NCDC division doesn't charge either, but that's because they tax the other teams in the organization to make up for the financial loss.

Look at the NAHL's East Division teams' attendance (minus Johnstown). The NAHL team in the center of Philadelphia had 6-7 million people within a half hour drive and played in front of an empty building despite extensive marketing. I've lived in the Northeast most of my life and if you're looking to go to a hockey game, I guarantee NHL is top of the list. Too pricey? AHL is closer and cheaper. Want to watch still ridiculously good hockey in a college football atmosphere for a bit less? Then NCAA D1 fits the bill. You still have ECHL and NCAA D2/3 on that list after that. There's too many options to watch higher levels of hockey and juniors doesn't win that battle in most of the United States.

Even in Canada, all of the Ontario leagues charge fees, even if they're quite a bit lower than Tier 3 US leagues. I think the BCHL is on of the few that doesn't charge tuition.

Im surprised how well the NAHL has took off in Johnstown. I remember how pissed Chiefs fans were when they were folding and they wanted each resident to put up $50 to be community owned and all of that. Elmira actually kind of did this. Only no finances were involved. They created a board of like 25 people who were all like VP's or business owners who oversaw the daily operations. They had no fiscal responsibilities though.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I hear you. Would rather watch juniors than the Fed. Guys in the Fed are going nowhere and unlike the UHL never went anywhere. I would be picky on my junior hockey. Wouldnt want this Tier 3 stuff but USHL, OHL or NAHL wouldnt be baad at all. NAHL is kind of the bottom of the junior toem poll though as far as those are concerned.

NAHL is the most realistic option for most places though. What many don’t realize is that a lot franchises whether it’s the NAHL or the Fed don’t make money. Take Wichita Falls for example who were owned by some rich guy who want to give back to the community and use it as a tax write off.

Keeping NAHL teams in the black (from what I’ve heard) takes the about 1,500 butts in seats each home game. USHL’s breakeven point is 2,000 mimimim, and their travel (biggest expenditure) is considerably less. And that’s even not paying the kids, cutting a junior teams budget to a fraction of what a minor league team’s is. Fed is probably close considering their salary doesn’t go too far past gas money and a case of beer.

Im surprised how well the NAHL has took off in Johnstown. I remember how pissed Chiefs fans were when they were folding and they wanted each resident to put up $50 to be community owned and all of that. Elmira actually kind of did this. Only no finances were involved. They created a board of like 25 people who were all like VP's or business owners who oversaw the daily operations. They had no fiscal responsibilities though.

Johnstown will draw hockey to the War Memorial whether it’s beer league or mites. It’s a hockey crazed old steel town that’s had hockey in the building since the 50s and is the only option for entertainment. It looks like it’s the rallying point for the town too, since they’ve got the same economic, opioid, social problems most Pennsyltucky hill towns do.

A town owning the team is probably an effective way to keep the team and build community support, it’s a good idea.

 

[GrGriffins]

I think the next season or two will determine if the FHL will still be in existence, merge with the SPHL, or close up shop altogether.

Sounds like Scott Brand must also be the head person of future FHL expansion. If that is the case and what he has stated in his radio talk show a few weeks ago about expanding southward into SPHL territory, makes you wonder if the FHL will try to be 2 leagues within one. Having a Northern division and a Southern Division, with the majority of the games played within their division. Should be interesting to see of this all comes together or not.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Time for the minor league baseball structure.

NAHL is the most realistic option for most places though. What many don’t realize is that a lot franchises whether it’s the NAHL or the Fed don’t make money. Take Wichita Falls for example who were owned by some rich guy who want to give back to the community and use it as a tax write off.

Keeping NAHL teams in the black (from what I’ve heard) takes the about 1,500 butts in seats each home game. USHL’s breakeven point is 2,000 mimimim, and their travel (biggest expenditure) is considerably less. And that’s even not paying the kids, cutting a junior teams budget to a fraction of what a minor league team’s is. Fed is probably close considering their salary doesn’t go too far past gas money and a case of beer.



Johnstown will draw hockey to the War Memorial whether it’s beer league or mites. It’s a hockey crazed old steel town that’s had hockey in the building since the 50s and is the only option for entertainment. It looks like it’s the rallying point for the town too, since they’ve got the same economic, opioid, social problems most Pennsyltucky hill towns do.

A town owning the team is probably an effective way to keep the team and build community support, it’s a good idea.

You could go farther than that. Most AHL and ECHL teams arent profitable. I think I heard once its like maybe 10 of them. That seems even generous.

Pennsyltucky? Haha I thought only us people from upstate NY called it that. But I must confess upstate NY isnt much different. Economic depression, opiod crisis and all the same.

Ive also come to realize most cities in the country suck and are about the same. Poor economics, drugs, ugly architecure, smug, smelly, polluted air. The only difference is some have more billionaires and or millionaires than others. Thats mostly it. The smaller the city the less entertainment options.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

NAHL is the most realistic option for most places though. What many don’t realize is that a lot franchises whether it’s the NAHL or the Fed don’t make money. Take Wichita Falls for example who were owned by some rich guy who want to give back to the community and use it as a tax write off.

Keeping NAHL teams in the black (from what I’ve heard) takes the about 1,500 butts in seats each home game. USHL’s breakeven point is 2,000 mimimim, and their travel (biggest expenditure) is considerably less. And that’s even not paying the kids, cutting a junior teams budget to a fraction of what a minor league team’s is. Fed is probably close considering their salary doesn’t go too far past gas money and a case of beer.



Johnstown will draw hockey to the War Memorial whether it’s beer league or mites. It’s a hockey crazed old steel town that’s had hockey in the building since the 50s and is the only option for entertainment. It looks like it’s the rallying point for the town too, since they’ve got the same economic, opioid, social problems most Pennsyltucky hill towns do.

A town owning the team is probably an effective way to keep the team and build community support, it’s a good idea.

keep in mind, the USPHL, Outback, just added a team and there's more than just the USPHL, There's another whole league called the NA3EHL, which until this year had a team in Binghamton, in fact many AHL Markets AS well as ECHL ones that transitioned had junior offshoots, including Portland and Manchester, in fact, my local market now has a NA3EHL team on one side of the river and a new USPHL entry on the opposite side of said river , no less than 5 minutes from here beginning this season.

 

[royals119]

You could go farther than that. Most AHL and ECHL teams arent profitable. I think I heard once its like maybe 10 of them. That seems even generous.

I don't believe that is true. The majority of AHL teams are now owned by NHL teams. They may not be profitable in the strict sense of AHL income exceeding AHL expenses, but the economic advantages to the NHL team outweigh those considerations for those teams. Most of the privately owned AHL teams are at least making a modest profit - the ones that weren't profitable were bought and moved for the most part.
As far as the ECHL goes, I had the chance to drive commissioner emeritus Pat Kelly to the airport last season, and I asked him about that. He still attends all the league meetings and knows the owners. He said all but a few are at least breaking even. Of those that lose money it isn't a lot, and most of those are satisfied with that. The Quad City team he mentioned was operated by the owners son, who was a very poor businessman, and wouldn't listen to any help or advice from the league office or other owners. He had plenty of opportunity to do better financially, but just didn't run the team properly.
You aren't going to make millions owning an ECHL team, but the idea that every team loses money just isn't true.