Olympics: Is Russia over rated as a hockey power

[torero]

Canada
Sweden
USA
Finland
Russia
Czech Republic
Slovakia

Sorry guys, but i believe that you are high on something ... NHL air probably.
I see here a list attempt of NHL contributors. (i would sort of agree and would add Switzerland at the end)

Russia produces way more talent , but most stay in the KHL, and as said a poster earlier, they did not translate into results for XX reasons.
Suddenly they will again.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sorry guys, but i believe that you are high on something ... NHL air probably.
I see here a list attempt of NHL contributors. (i would sort of agree and would add Switzerland at the end)

Russia produces way more talent , but most stay in the KHL, and as said a poster earlier, they did not translate into results for XX reasons.
Suddenly they will again.

They stay in the KHL because they likely can't make in the best league in the world, the NHL

 

[The Bad Guy*]

Results matter ... yes and no ... Russia, in Sochi lost a game against the americans that was a shame... unluck to the extreme !!
would they have won it, probably they would have gone way further. Because they had it all to go to a medal at least.

Maybe, we will never know. But what I will write next won't make a close loss against the U.S in a shootout look like a valid excuse.

There was nothing about that loss that explains why they were taken out at home against a Finnish squad missing many of it's best players.

There really is no excuse anymore, much as some may try to find one. They have had 3 recent kicks at the cow with one being a home event and still they've got not even a bronze medal to show for all three.Big ice, small ice, home, away from home. They have got Nada to show for any of it.

This from a nation that could once legitimately boast as being the best in the world or at least in a tie or slightly worse then Canada. Today, a legitimate claim can be made that they are not even the SECOND best team in EUROPE,never mind the world.

That's regression.

That can't be denied or swept away by saying tournaments are one game elimination affairs.

They need to face the music and make some changes. Getting rid of Tretiak would be a good place to start, he's a prime example of someone in power in their national structure who is completely out of touch and still thinks it is the 1970's and 80's.

I agree one game eliminations mean you have a better chance of coming up short of your goal, but when you go three times in a row without even a third spot placing it cannot be denied that you are not in the top one or two spots of the hockey food chain at present.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Sorry guys, but i believe that you are high on something ... NHL air probably.
I see here a list attempt of NHL contributors. (i would sort of agree and would add Switzerland at the end)

Russia produces way more talent , but most stay in the KHL, and as said a poster earlier, they did not translate into results for XX reasons.
Suddenly they will again.

I have no idea what your post means, torero. Do you agree with me or not?

 

[Rob]

Lets be honest. This thread was probably started to bash Russian hockey.

Overrated? No. I don't think anyone is overrating them now. They are underperforming when it really counts though.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Overrated? No. I don't think anyone is overrating them now. They are underperforming when it really counts though.

In the last 50 years...

Russian Hockey has gone from #2 in the world to # 5. That's quite a drop.

(* Canadian hockey has gone from 1 to an undisputed 1.
The Czechs from 3 to 6.
Swedish Hockey from 4 to 2.
The Fins from 5 to 4
The U.S. from 10(?) to 3.

If you had asked people 35 years ago how they thought the hockey world would shake out, they would have said Russia would rise to # 1 and Canada would drop. *)

 

[Get North]

I think they're overrated because of their history. When I hear Russia the first thing I think of are the Soviet days against Canada and that rivalry but when I think about it, they aren't a top contender anymore. They are #5 on my list but you can't always count them out because of their star firepower.

Not overrated in this thread since majority of the posters are saying Russia is #5-#6 which is where they belong as of right now.

 

[FedorBure]

In the last 50 years...

Russian Hockey has gone from #2 in the world to # 5. That's quite a drop.

(* Canadian hockey has gone from 1 to an undisputed 1.
The Czechs from 3 to 6.
Swedish Hockey from 4 to 2.
The Fins from 5 to 4
The U.S. from 10(?) to 3.

If you had asked people 35 years ago how they thought the hockey world would shake out, they would have said Russia would rise to # 1 and Canada would drop. *)

It went from #1 to 5.

Canada went from #2 to 1.

i don't blame you for your bias though, since you seem to be a typical canadian hockey fan.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

It went from #1 to 5.

Canada went from #2 to 1.

i don't blame you for your bias though, since you seem to be a typical canadian hockey fan.

And I forgive you for your bias as well.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

It went from #1 to 5.

Canada went from #2 to 1.

i don't blame you for your bias though, since you seem to be a typical canadian hockey fan.

At no point has Canada ever been nor will they ever be #2

 

[Canuckistani]

In the same way some in the Russian media and their fans, both enthusiast and the casual alike, point to the 2008 WHC in Quebec City as pretty much Canada's Olympic team.

WHC 2008 was a good Team Canada (second on-paper only to 2005) but was still a long way from the Olympic squad. There were only six Canadians that year who would go on to play in Vancouver vs 16 from the gold medal Russian team. It was the same story in 2009: 3 Canadians that year were bound for Vancouver vs 11 Russians.

Part of what made the Russians so overconfident in 2010 was the fact that WHC golds in 2008 and 2009 convinced them that the glory days had returned for Russia at last. In reality they were far from beating Canada's best.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Sorry guys, but i believe that you are high on something ... NHL air probably.
I see here a list attempt of NHL contributors. (i would sort of agree and would add Switzerland at the end)

Russia produces way more talent , but most stay in the KHL, and as said a poster earlier, they did not translate into results for XX reasons.
Suddenly they will again.

Last year the KHL Medvescak team was basically comprised of AHLers and they did pretty well. The notion that there is all this NHL level talent hidden away in the KHL is just not realistic.

 

[Xokkeu]

At no point has Canada ever been nor will they ever be #2

Other than 1996 and 2006 where they were clearly not #1

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Other than 1996 and 2006 where they were clearly not #1

I think he was referring to the quality and depth of our players.

 

[Get North]

I heard they play no contact hockey in the KHL.

 

[1Gold Standard]

WHC 2008 was a good Team Canada (second on-paper only to 2005) but was still a long way from the Olympic squad. There were only six Canadians that year who would go on to play in Vancouver vs 16 from the gold medal Russian team. It was the same story in 2009: 3 Canadians that year were bound for Vancouver vs 11 Russians.

Part of what made the Russians so overconfident in 2010 was the fact that WHC golds in 2008 and 2009 convinced them that the glory days had returned for Russia at last. In reality they were far from beating Canada's best.

You are arguing the point as if somehow you think I'm confused as to what a WHC team is as opposed to an Olympic team. If you want the names of those in the Russia media (sportswriters) who push that theory, I'll supply you with names and you can argue with them. ))) I'm under no such illusions or delusions as to what the 2008 WHC team was.

 

[Canuckistani]

At no point has Canada ever been nor will they ever be #2

In the late 70s and early 80s Canada was very clearly #2 behind the Soviet Union.

And from 1998-2001 the Czech Republic could claim to be #1.

 

[Canuckistani]

You are arguing the point as if somehow you think I'm confused as to what a WHC team is as opposed to an Olympic team. If you want the names of those in the Russia media (sportswriters) who push that theory, I'll supply you with names and you can argue with them. ))) I'm under no such illusions or delusions as to what the 2008 WHC team was.

I know. I was responding to the point made in your post (ie the claims made by Russia writers). Never said it was you who made the argument.

 

[1Gold Standard]

I know. I was responding to the point made in your post (ie the claims made by Russia writers). Never said it was you who made the argument.

Ok. Good! I never like ambiguity.

 

[Yakushev72]

Its true that Russia, along with the Czechs and Slovaks, have suffered years of decline, owing to a number of factors that I won't discuss here. Since 1993, Russian, Czech and Slovak hockey players have been nothing more than itinerant workers, like the illegal aliens that pick fruit and clean toilets in the United States. They have gotten paid a lot, but their migration to the West destroyed hockey in their countries. The NHL cherry-picked the best assets of these countries and left them with nothing to sustain their domestic programs with.

I look for the Czechs and Slovaks to continue their steep decline, but in Russia, with a relatively new KHL and MHL, the basis to retain and develop talent at home has been established. If it succeeds, Russia certainly has the potential to challenge for world supremacy down the road. If the NHL has provided the stimulus for Canadian kids to aspire to the NHL, to be the latest Gretzky or Crosby, the KHL will have the capability to similarly offer a road map to fame and fortune for Russian kids. They don't have that far to go. Yes, Canada won the last 2 Olympic Games, but in the two meetings between Canada and Russia in the Olympics since 1998, the teams are split in wins-losses, 1-1, and Canada leads in total goals for and against, 7-5. Its not a tall mountain to climb!

 

[Jakk123]

Its true that Russia, along with the Czechs and Slovaks, have suffered years of decline, owing to a number of factors that I won't discuss here. Since 1993, Russian, Czech and Slovak hockey players have been nothing more than itinerant workers, like the illegal aliens that pick fruit and clean toilets in the United States. They have gotten paid a lot, but their migration to the West destroyed hockey in their countries. The NHL cherry-picked the best assets of these countries and left them with nothing to sustain their domestic programs with.

I look for the Czechs and Slovaks to continue their steep decline, but in Russia, with a relatively new KHL and MHL, the basis to retain and develop talent at home has been established. If it succeeds, Russia certainly has the potential to challenge for world supremacy down the road. If the NHL has provided the stimulus for Canadian kids to aspire to the NHL, to be the latest Gretzky or Crosby, the KHL will have the capability to similarly offer a road map to fame and fortune for Russian kids. They don't have that far to go. Yes, Canada won the last 2 Olympic Games, but in the two meetings between Canada and Russia in the Olympics since 1998, the teams are split in wins-losses, 1-1, and Canada leads in total goals for and against, 7-5. Its not a tall mountain to climb!

I wouldn´t count the Czechs out completely. They have shown some progress at the Junior/U18 level. You can argue that they only have a really good generation now, but we will see. But regarding us, I am really pessimistic. Our league is getting worse and worse every year, every single player that is at least a bit above average goes at least to very decent Czech Extraliga.

And regarding Russia, as I have previously stated, I still consider them as a hockey power. Their defence is not as good as Canada, USA or Sweden, but I am pretty sure that they can still compete.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

Other than 1996 and 2006 where they were clearly not #1

1996?

Are you talking about the U.S win at the World cup?

You can't count that, it was an NHL organized tournament.

They aren't legitimate.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

1996?

Are you talking about the U.S win at the World cup?

You can't count that, it was an NHL organized tournament.

They aren't legitimate.

It was a terrific tournament and the U.S. won handily.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

It was a terrific tournament and the U.S. won handily.

The U.S and Canada were in the final, you think that was coincidence?

Look at their lineups.......................sheer fluff.

Yep, good old fashioned NHL home cookin!!

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

The U.S and Canada were in the final, you think that was coincidence?

Look at their lineups.......................sheer fluff.

Yep, good old fashioned NHL home cookin!!

Not sure how the format is much different than 2004 when Finland finished 2nd and the Czechs finished 3rd.