Is Phaneuf Overrated?

[Helmethead]

High expectation!!! He's only a D...maybe in 2-3 years but not his season...

perhaps.but i also think that sutter likes him enough to play him now.and if he's paired up with hamr or leopold he can play on the pp and put up points.

 

[jcorb58]

I am an Oiler fan and think this guy has a great future. He is going to be one mean SOB to play against. Dion deserves all the praise he gets.

 

[KStewart113]

Asnwer to title: HELL NO

Sutter is playing him on the number 1 pairing with Regehr.

 

[Steven Seagal]

Phaneuf overated? No. Flames overated? Yes.

other way around.

 

[flambers]

Yes, Phaneuf is overrated. He's gonna be a great defenseman in a year or two but if he is a top 4 defenseman for Calgary this season (meaning that he would have to be one of the better d-men in the NHL) I would be very surprised.

To be honest I don't understand this post. The question is "Is Dion Phaneuf Over rated". Your answer was "yes". Your explanation is you don't think he will develop into a top 4 dman this season. Sure I agree I think all prospects take time to develop but how does that make him over rated?

I still think he will develop into a #1 dman but it takes all dman prospects time to develop.

 

[abracanada]

I would say that we need to get a sense of how he is used in the regular season before we know what to expect. First of all, Sutter will be the best judge and if he uses him on a third pairing (as has been suggested) and gives him some power play time, that will speak volumes about what kind of talent he really is. He does seem to come alive when given a lot of responsibility (like he was against the oil). If he is given very few minutes per game, maybe he would be better off in the AHL. Quite frankly, I really don't see that happening so far, based on his performance. The regular season is the acid test. I am confident he will make it, at least, that far.

 

[Bileur]

http://calsun.canoe.ca/Sports/Hockey/2005/09/26/1235983-sun.html

He is also listed as 6'2 and 210 - I heard he is 6'3 215 now. I am looking forward to some real battles this year, and if he is willing to stand up to Laracque, I have to admire his courage, although I am not so sure it is a good idea.
.

Is there any more info on this?

 

[abracanada]

Is there any more info on this?

What part are you asking about, his size, or the fact that he stood up to Laracque and Pronger?

 

[Flames Will]

D-men development time

While yes most D-men take time to develop into NHL players and top 4 guys with offensive upside, this is not always the case - of course we should not go back to the Al MacInnis, Ray Bourque and Gary Suter, Brian Leetch days - perhaps we should look more recently at track records of defensemen?

Well lets look at the highly touted defensemen since the 1997 Draft (assuming that this is resonable since it has really been since about 1999 that the NHL has been overly defensive oriented) Also lets concentrate on those defensemen that were allowed 2-3 years time to develop from the time they were drafted (Phaneuf only had 2 years, but his physical and mental maturity are more like those players a year or two older).

1997 DRAFT
Paul Mara - not as highly touted as Phaneuf came into the league two years after being drafted #7 overall by tampa bay- had 18 points in 54 games playing for a weak team in 1999-2000. It was his 5th NHL season that he became the top 4 defenseman that he is now.

Eric Brewer - again not as highly touted as Phaneuf came into the league one year after being drafted! A year earlier then Phaneuf! Had 11 points in 63 games with the Islanders - came into his own in his 3rd NHL season and first with the Edmonton Oilers.

1998 DRAFT
Brad Stuart - again not as highly touted as Phaneuf - drafted 3rd Overall in 1998 by SJ and played in the NHl in his second year after being drafted - a full year ahead of Phaneuf! had 36 points in 82 games and from his first season was a top 4 defenseman pretty much in SJ

Martin Skoula - was very highly touted, and almost became a flames instead of Regher in the Fleury trade. This guy has tons of talent but just has not worked hard enough to demonstrate it! came into the NHL in his second year after being drafted with Colorodo after being drafted 17th overall in 1998 and had 16 points in 80 games. has been a top 4 defenseman off and on since

Robyn Regher - drafted 19th overall by Colorodo the same year as Skoula. Was the component the flames decided on taking for Fleury. Played in his second year after being drafted after overcoming a serious car accident - did not become a top four defender though until his 4th NHL season.

1999 DRAFT
Barrett Jackman - well here is a defenseman who was highly touted and lived up to it from year one. Was drafted 17th overall by St Louis and played in his 4th season after being drafted - was a top 4 contributer and had 19 points in 82 games while winning the Calder Memorial trophy.

2001 DRAFT
Dan Hamhuis - drafted 12th overall by Nashville played in his 3rd year after being drafted and scored 26 points in 80 games.

2002 DRAFT
Pitkanen played in his second year after being drafted and was defeinatly capable of playing top 4 for Philadelphia. Drafted 4th overall he had 27 points in 71 games in his first season with Philadelphia before the lock-out.

Jay Bouwemeester - while he still has not reached his potential - perhaps from the examples shown above it is due not neccessarily to taking longer to develop but to the lack of capable tutors in florida to teach him what it takes to be a top 4 defenseman?

If you look at all the examples above - most, if not all had an All-star tutor to help show them the game while they were getting going - those who took longer to develop - Regher, Bouwemeester and Mara really were without tutors when they arrived in the NHL. I would say the best two examples of defensemen in the Phaneuf comparisom would be Pitkanen and Jackman - both were highly touted and both played on teams with a strong defense.

To say Phaneuf needs more development or that defensemen of this calibre need more developing and that we should look at Bouwemeester as a prime example of this is to say we should ignore the other facts such as surrounding? Bouwemeester has little or no support to help teach him the ropes. Bouwemeester does not hav ea coach (Playfair) whose sole responsability is to instruct the defensemen and help them get better. Is it just a coincidence that Calgary's Defense started becoming top notch when he became an assistant coach?
Does having a coach who has seen their player play more in the last year then he has seen any of his other players help? I would think so... Phaneuf was coached the last several seasons by another Sutter in Red Deer - and then again in the World Juniors - do you think Darryl saw many of those games? being a short drive from his family farm?
Does having a defenseman who is more physically and mentally prepared then most others that have been here in the past help? Of course it does.
Does bringing in an offensive PP Quarterback like Hamrlik help? Duh! of course it helps - any time you have a great player that plays your position tutoring you (not saying that Hamrlik is a superstar - but he is a great Defenseman on the PP) it helps. Having another physical defenseman who is among the leagues best hitters teaching you how to stay in position (like Regher) will only help as well.
Point is this - for ever Bouwemeester out there therer is also a Pitkanen and Jackman. And I would think Phaneuf fits better int he Jackman and Pitkanen comparisom given all the circumstances then he does after a Bouwemeester.
He will not be an All-star defenseman this year, he will not likely win the Calder cup - but he will be on the all-rookie team and will become a top 4 defenseman before the end of the season, if not at the start.

 

[Aaron Vickers]

I think that it'd be fair to pencil in Phaneuf as a #5 defensemen at seasons end. I'm having a hard time believing that he'll surpass one of Regehr, Warrener, Leopold or Hamrlik to sneak into the top four. Ference perhaps, but I can't see him passing any of the previously mentioned top four for the Flames.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me to see him second among defensemen in points. One thing that really stands out in comparing Phaneuf to the rest of the Flames defensemen (Hamrlik aside, haven't seen him play regularly) is that he'll uncork a slapshot from the point in a hurry, without second guessing it.

He'll get a lot of PP time simply because he carries a big shot from the point, and it is bound to result in points.

But lets not confuse points with status.

 

[J17 Vs Proclamation]

This guy is overated IMO, awesome prospect, but ive read things in the past saying if the 03 draft were re-done, he would go #1. I dont think that would be the case. As for the season, he will be anywhere between 4-6.

lol, but then im just jealous of the fact we dont have him.

 

[abracanada]

This guy is overated IMO, awesome prospect, but ive read things in the past saying if the 03 draft were re-done, he would go #1. I dont think that would be the case. As for the season, he will be anywhere between 4-6.

lol, but then im just jealous of the fact we dont have him.

I think that has a lot to do with many of the evaluations of him. Nice to see someone admit it.

 

[Bileur]

What part are you asking about, his size, or the fact that he stood up to Laracque and Pronger?

That standing up part.

 

[PACaptain]

Is Dion Phaneuf overrated?

To steal a line from one of my favorite websites: That's like asking can God make a rock that is so heavy that he can't lift it.

Seriously, let the guy play some regular season games before we rate him in an under or over fashion.

All reviews sound good, but some regular season and probably even playoff games need to be played before judgement is passed.

 

[abracanada]

That standing up part.

It is included in the original post - just click on the link.

 

[KH1]

To be honest I don't understand this post. The question is "Is Dion Phaneuf Over rated". Your answer was "yes". Your explanation is you don't think he will develop into a top 4 dman this season. Sure I agree I think all prospects take time to develop but how does that make him over rated?

I still think he will develop into a #1 dman but it takes all dman prospects time to develop.

I think that he will be a great defenseman in the future. A lot of people on this site think that he will be a top 4 quality defenseman on a playoff team this year. He is not that good right now.

 

[Transported Upstater]

I think that he will be a great defenseman in the future. A lot of people on this site think that he will be a top 4 quality defenseman on a playoff team this year. He is not that good right now.

With Calgary's depth on the blueline, he is certainly not a top 4 defenseman on the Flames right now.

But I love his game, and think he'll be terrific.



And as for the Bouwmeester thing....
1) He's still very young
2) He plays on a team that over the years used an unique defensive system, the one known as "Get the he11 out of Luongo's way, then ice the puck."

Bouwmeester has had no one adequate as a pairing partner than I can think of, and he played in the NHL his draft year. Rookie defensemen on a bad team face an unbelievably difficult learning process. Chris Pronger, if I remember correctly, had a rocky first two years as well.
I think when a defenseman wins an award that is almost exclusively given to forwards and goalies, that probably means he turned out OK...

Bouwmeester will be excellent.

 

[ABwind]

Yes he is overrated. He is the best defensive prospect in the league the answer is yes. But I was at a pre-season game in Calgary and if he even bumps in to somebody the whole place goes stupid. I watched and he is really good, but he isn't gonna run over everyone in this league, not yet anyway. He isn't going to dominate but he is going to be very good. But yes he is overrated. People think he is gonna be better than Bobby Freakin' Orr. Wish we had him though.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

1998 DRAFT
Brad Stuart - again not as highly touted as Phaneuf - drafted 3rd Overall in 1998 by SJ and played in the NHl in his second year after being drafted - a full year ahead of Phaneuf! had 36 points in 82 games and from his first season was a top 4 defenseman pretty much in SJ

Martin Skoula - was very highly touted, and almost became a flames instead of Regher in the Fleury trade. This guy has tons of talent but just has not worked hard enough to demonstrate it! came into the NHL in his second year after being drafted with Colorodo after being drafted 17th overall in 1998 and had 16 points in 80 games. has been a top 4 defenseman off and on since

Robyn Regher - drafted 19th overall by Colorodo the same year as Skoula. Was the component the flames decided on taking for Fleury. Played in his second year after being drafted after overcoming a serious car accident - did not become a top four defender though until his 4th NHL season.

Where is Brian Allen? Drafted 4th overall that year, and ranked top 5 by CSB before the draft.

 

[espo*]

phaneuf is the best defensive prospect in hockey i'd say.He'll be an all star and be up for Norris Trophies.Anyone who says he's over-rated is just one of those types who get ticked off when some kid recieves a lot of praise,there are always those types.

 

[Porn*]

it will take him af ew years til he's dominant...but no he's not overrated, he's stellar.

 

[Captain Conservative]

i expect him on the 1st PP abra, paired with Hamrlik setting him up. Dion has a laser from the backend.

Reghr? heh, he just doesnt belong on the PP period.

Hamrlik-Phaneuf on 1stPP
Leopold and Ference on 2nd. (yes even Ference has better offensive instincts than Rockin Robyn)

Reghr, Warriner should be used strictly defensively.

Is that Pavel Bure in your avatar? Whos the skirt?

 

[Jessie Lumsden]

I'm higher than anyone on the kid, but even I'll admit you have to see him in the regular season before you start making judgements.

 

[Bileur]

It is included in the original post - just click on the link.

I was wondering about more information about that. The link has an extra 2 sentences or something I was wondering if anyone saw these things happen.

 

[Flames Will]

Allen was not a regular by year 2-3

Where is Brian Allen? Drafted 4th overall that year, and ranked top 5 by CSB before the draft.

As I said in the beggining of my post this was to compare other defensemen who made the NHL within the first 2-3 years after being drafted. Allen did not make it as a NHL regular until his 6th season after being drafted, therefore did not count on my list as he had more development time then did Phaneuf.

There are a limited few defensemen who have made the jump that soon after their draft year - but as I showed most of them did rather well immediatly - with only a few exceptions.