Is it time to start trading some of our Picks/Prospects to improve our roster?

[Do Make Say Think]

A personal issue? What do you mean?

Personnel, not personal

The problem is the players

 

[freddy61]

Personnel, not personal

The problem is the players

Yes but where would you start?

He's some food for thought:
Just moving what some would consider the bottom 6 to improve the talent won't do it if you are aiming at the wrong target. What if the problem is not where you think it is? What would you do if the problem is your best player(s). What if the team is built around 1 or more guys whose I don't give a crap meter is high?

We are likely to touch a nerve if we pursue.

Discuss?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Yes but where would you start?

He's some food for thought:
Just moving what some would consider the bottom 6 to improve the talent won't do it if you are aiming at the wrong target. What if the problem is not where you think it is? What would you do if the problem is your best player(s). What if the team is built around 1 or more guys whose I don't give a crap meter is high?

We are likely to touch a nerve if we pursue.

Discuss?

In all honesty, if it truly is the case where a couple foundation players "just don't care" and nothing the organization can do will change it.....

The only thing you really can do is trade them, tear it down, and load up on high end picks and prospects.

But, I don't think we're at that place. I really do think our core guys care. I think there's something else going on. Something that can be fixed.

 

[Asquaredx2]

I agree that there are holes in the roster (especially on the blue-line) but if this beginning of the season indicates anything it's that it takes more than just the names on a roster to make a good team. The two worst offences are Anaheim and Pittsburgh. The Flames with their supposedly top-3 blue-line (I know they're missing Brodie) are the second worst defensive team in the league. And we basically take for granted that the Avs are terrible despite having a pretty talented roster. Conversely, Montreal somehow has been more or less on-par offensively with Washington.

So I don't think you can necessarily pencil in a guy and expect a quick-fix. I do agree it might be time for a chance in management -- we have been mediocre for Murray's entire tenure despite drafting pretty well. But I also think the roster as it currently is could perform better. We have a young team so I can accept defensive break-downs, but I don't get why we seem to be outworked so consistently. I don't know how you try to get them to work harder other than bag-skating them or reading them the riot act between periods. Even then, momentum in the course of a game is a fickle thing. I wonder (and this is an insanely dumb idea) have teams ever pulled the goalie in say the second period if they're down a goal? It can backfire, sure, but maybe you get a couple shifts with good chances and it puts the other team more on the back-foot when you go back to 5 on 5. Anything would be better than just watching the Sens dump it out of the zone...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I agree that there are holes in the roster (especially on the blue-line) but if this beginning of the season indicates anything it's that it takes more than just the names on a roster to make a good team. The two worst offences are Anaheim and Pittsburgh. The Flames with their supposedly top-3 blue-line (I know they're missing Brodie) are the second worst defensive team in the league. And we basically take for granted that the Avs are terrible despite having a pretty talented roster. Conversely, Montreal somehow has been more or less on-par offensively with Washington.

So I don't think you can necessarily pencil in a guy and expect a quick-fix. I do agree it might be time for a chance in management -- we have been mediocre for Murray's entire tenure despite drafting pretty well. But I also think the roster as it currently is could perform better. We have a young team so I can accept defensive break-downs, but I don't get why we seem to be outworked so consistently. I don't know how you try to get them to work harder other than bag-skating them or reading them the riot act between periods. Even then, momentum in the course of a game is a fickle thing. I wonder (and this is an insanely dumb idea) have teams ever pulled the goalie in say the second period if they're down a goal? It can backfire, sure, but maybe you get a couple shifts with good chances and it puts the other team more on the back-foot when you go back to 5 on 5. Anything would be better than just watching the Sens dump it out of the zone...

Something in my brain tells me I've seen it happen before.

I do believe, if my brain is correct, it has happened in the last minute of a period (either first or second period) in in international tournament when one team had a 5-on-3 advantage, they pulled their goalie for a 6-on-3. I think it might have been the world juniors, way, way back when it was just a round robin tournament and a team needed a win to make the top 3 for a medal, but I'm not entirely sure.

But I do know I've seen it happen before.

 

[Back in Black]

So many crystal balls in here.

I swear some people just wait for the team to lose a few games so they can spill doom and gloom everywhere.

This isn’t the first time. This has been going on far too long! No doom, no gloom, just new blood....

 

[aragorn]

I still maintain that what the Senators need they may already have internally.

Some people have said that Ottawa could use a #1 centre to replace what we had in Spezza. I would argue they may already have one in Nick Paul. Paul may not & may never be as offensively gifted as Spezza but he has good size, is defensively responsible & pretty good at faceoffs. He only really needs to work on his skating & his offensive skills & awareness & getting to the front of the net. Place him in between Hoffman & Stone who can create their own offence & he can't help but pick up assists & some goals especially in front of the net.

Some people have said that Ottawa needs another top 6 forward. I would argue that they may already have one in Tobias Lindberg who has NHL size, is an excellent goal scorer & as it turns out a pretty good passer too. He only really needs to work on being a little more defensively responsible, he is also a pretty good skater.

Some people have said that Ottawa needs a top 4 defenceman. I would argue that they may already have one in Thomas Chabot who had an excellent development camp, rookie tournament & preseason with the Senators who seemed quite pleased with his development. He only really needs to get bigger & stronger physically to be able to handle the bigger forwards in the NHL.

Then they still have Puempel, Robinson, O'Connor & others coming. Knowing this of course as soon as these guys are NHL ready BM could start looking to trade some older players (Phillips/Neil) for picks or prospects at the deadline this yr, although I would be surprised to see either of those two guys traded. I'm just not sure if BM is prepared to trade some future to improve this team right now or whether he plans to wait for these guys to reach another level as players & as a team. I wouldn't trade anyone above but I would look at packages that included guys like Pageau, Prince, Chiasson, MacArthur, Michalek, Wiercioch, Wideman, Hammond or other prospects.

 

[krapsik]

I still maintain that what the Senators need they may already have internally.

Some people have said that Ottawa could use a #1 centre to replace what we had in Spezza. I would argue they may already have one in Nick Paul. Paul may not & may never be as offensively gifted as Spezza but he has good size, is defensively responsible & pretty good at faceoffs. He only really needs to work on his skating & his offensive skills & awareness & getting to the front of the net. Place him in between Hoffman & Stone who can create their own offence & he can't help but pick up assists & some goals especially in front of the net.

Some people have said that Ottawa needs another top 6 forward. I would argue that they may already have one in Tobias Lindberg who has NHL size, is an excellent goal scorer & as it turns out a pretty good passer too. He only really needs to work on being a little more defensively responsible, he is also a pretty good skater.

Some people have said that Ottawa needs a top 4 defenceman. I would argue that they may already have one in Thomas Chabot who had an excellent development camp, rookie tournament & preseason with the Senators who seemed quite pleased with his development. He only really needs to get bigger & stronger physically to be able to handle the bigger forwards in the NHL.

Then they still have Puempel, Robinson, O'Connor & others coming. Knowing this of course as soon as these guys are NHL ready BM could start looking to trade some older players (Phillips/Neil) for picks or prospects at the deadline this yr, although I would be surprised to see either of those two guys traded. I'm just not sure if BM is prepared to trade some future to improve this team right now or whether he plans to wait for these guys to reach another level as players & as a team. I wouldn't trade anyone above but I would look at packages that included guys like Pageau, Prince, Chiasson, MacArthur, Michalek, Wiercioch, Wideman, Hammond or other prospects.

Yes we have peaces. But they are 2,3,4 seasons away. We are not in a rebuild. We need to make team competitive now to give guys like Karlsson, Turris, Ryan etc. legit chance for a long run at list.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Nope stay the course this a retool / rebuild and the guys drafted when it started like Pumpeul are just getting here. Stay patient and keep cap space available. I like the kids.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Nope stay the course this a retool / rebuild and the guys drafted when it started like Pumpeul are just getting here. Stay patient and keep cap space available. I like the kids.

Im down for staying patient, but if Weircioch and Cowen both, or someone else below them, doesn't cement themselves into legit top 4 guys .. . well the Senators are going to need to bring one in.

At least in my opinion. Thats still the biggest hole on that roster, i believe that Zibby and Ryan will get it going sooner or later. Nothing wrong with the bottom 6, nice mix of skill and tenacity. That 2nd line is killing the team right now.

 

[Bag of Pucks]

On paper the team looks awesome. It's the execution that is never there. I don't know maybe the players we have just don't mesh together good enough. I remember watching this team back in the day and it used to be tape to tape all the way up the ice perfect passing. You can have all the skilled players you want but if they don't play well together then theres no consitency.

 

[Stylizer1]

Regardless of how well this team does we need a new set of eyes looking toward the future. I can't see Murray wanting to spend his last years in the league just developing players.

 

[trentmccleary]

This team needs a top-3 d-man now. There are too many good players at every other position to let this hole remain much longer. Fix this Murray!

 

[Micklebot]

This team needs a top-3 d-man now. There are too many good players at every other position to let this hole remain much longer. Fix this Murray!

We need a vet #3 that can teach guys like Ceci and even Karlsson. Someone like what Gonchar was when here.

 

[Sens Rule]

We need a vet #3 that can teach guys like Ceci and even Karlsson. Someone like what Gonchar was when here.

We should send tape of tonight's game to the Habs and also remind them that Chiasson is from Montreal. And Jedi mind trick them to forget about all the earlier games in Chiasson's career. Get Markov for him. Defence problems solved.

 

[HispanicAtTheDisco]

We need a vet #3 that can teach guys like Ceci and even Karlsson. Someone like what Gonchar was when here.

Sounds like we should give Phillips an extension.

But for real, the only upcoming I see really fitting the bill are Campbell and Hamhuis.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Sounds like we should give Phillips an extension.

But for real, the only upcoming I see really fitting the bill are Campbell and Hamhuis.

He's an upcoming UFA, but he's just what we need.

 

[aragorn]

Yes we have the pieces. But they are 2,3,4 seasons away. We are not in a rebuild. We need to make team competitive now to give guys like Karlsson, Turris, Ryan etc. legit chance for a long run at list.

Then someone should tell Karlsson & Ryan the two highest paid players on the team to stop playing like crap so that the team can actually have a legit shot at making a run. Both are reckless with the puck, both give the puck away with regularity, both take too many risks that are costing the team & both suck defensively.

Karlsson started last yr playing like crap & Ryan ended last yr playing like crap as well & if not for the run Hammond took this team on they would not have made the playoffs. Those two along with Wiercioch are the biggest problems with the team right now followed by Zibanejad who at least seems to have started playing a little better of late.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

We should send tape of tonight's game to the Habs and also remind them that Chiasson is from Montreal. And Jedi mind trick them to forget about all the earlier games in Chiasson's career. Get Markov for him. Defence problems solved.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Then someone should tell Karlsson & Ryan the two highest paid players on the team to stop playing like crap so that the team can actually have a legit shot at making a run. Both are reckless with the puck, both give the puck away with regularity, both take too many risks that are costing the team & both suck defensively.

Karlsson started last yr playing like crap & Ryan ended last yr playing like crap as well & if not for the run Hammond took this team on they would not have made the playoffs. Those two along with Wiercioch are the biggest problems with the team right now followed by Zibanejad who at least seems to have started playing a little better of late.

Ya, I don't think Erik Karlsson is the biggest problem on the team. I get that he has to be better (Ryan too) but your statement is pretty outrageous IMO.

I also find it interesting that you make mention of Zib playing better "at least" whereas Ryan just had has best two games of the season and proved he plays great with Turris, but apparently he is still more of a problem than Zibby.

 

[Proust*]

This team needs a top-3 d-man now. There are too many good players at every other position to let this hole remain much longer. Fix this Murray!

This need has been glaring for over a year, and Murray has chosen to ignore it because of his permanent desire for "another top-6 forward".

His strategy of blindly hoping young defensemen grow by putting them in sink or swim situations has been proven to be crap for a while now.

Ceci, Cowen, Wiercioch... these guys need to be bumped down the d-corps depth chart by 1 body, and it has been that way for a while.

A forward or a forward prospect + a high pick need to go for a D-man. Go find out what Lazar + 1st round pick will get you.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Ya, I don't think Erik Karlsson is the biggest problem on the team. I get that he has to be better (Ryan too) but your statement is pretty outrageous IMO.

I also find it interesting that you make mention of Zib playing better "at least" whereas Ryan just had has best two games of the season and proved he plays great with Turris, but apparently he is still more of a problem than Zibby.

Karlsson isn't the biggest issue but he's a big issue. He's been extremely casual defensively and the offence that more than makes up for it generally has been absent, except for that game vs. Columbus, who were everyone's patsies.

The issues are deeper than that though, we need to make Cowen+Borowiecki exit the team as they are counter to what the current hockey methods are. You need guys on each pairing that can skate and pass with regularity. As is Erik doesn't want to pass to Boro because the puck dies on his stick. With fights going down every season, Boro can't do that much either.

When those two are on the ice we are outpossessed in a huge way.
We can't allow 30+ shots against regularly and hope to win games, even less in the playoffs.

So, the three tier process:
1)Murray out.
1A)Go hard after Julien Brisebois.
2)Boro, Cowen, Neil, Phillips out.
2A)Replace with Wideman, Wiercioch, Puempel, Paul.
3)See if you can get a steadying defensive presence (like Gonchar was for us) out of the four at 1A), if not consider moving a prospect or two.
4)Scout for an experienced coach once Murray is out. Murray will never allow someone with experience behind the bench because he won't be able to second-guess or order from above. The team needs someone it can't push around and who has the resumé and authority to push back if they do. Would have gone hard after Babcock last summer, but that ship has passed.

From there, start the ascent to contention.
Hopefully!

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Karlsson isn't the biggest issue but he's a big issue. He's been extremely casual defensively and the offence that more than makes up for it generally has been absent, except for that game vs. Columbus, who were everyone's patsies.

The issues are deeper than that though, we need to make Cowen+Borowiecki exit the team as they are counter to what the current hockey methods are. You need guys on each pairing that can skate and pass with regularity. As is Erik doesn't want to pass to Boro because the puck dies on his stick. With fights going down every season, Boro can't do that much either.

When those two are on the ice we are outpossessed in a huge way.
We can't allow 30+ shots against regularly and hope to win games, even less in the playoffs.

So, the three tier process:
1)Murray out.
1A)Go hard after Julien Brisebois.
2)Boro, Cowen, Neil, Phillips out.
2A)Replace with Wideman, Wiercioch, Puempel, Paul.
3)See if you can get a steadying defensive presence (like Gonchar was for us) out of the four at 1A), if not consider moving a prospect or two.
4)Scout for an experienced coach once Murray is out. Murray will never allow someone with experience behind the bench because he won't be able to second-guess or order from above. The team needs someone it can't push around and who has the resumé and authority to push back if they do. Would have gone hard after Babcock last summer, but that ship has passed.

From there, start the ascent to contention.
Hopefully!

I find it comical that, based on your process numbering, your very first move will 100% never happen. He is here until at least the end of the year, we all know this.

I agree with the most of your moves though. But I do think your "would have gone hard after Babcock" comment is bizarre, I mean do you really see the Sens shelling out 50 million dollars to a coach?

 

[WhiteLight*]

Julien BriseBois.

Oh yes

 

[BonkTastic]

Julien BriseBois.

Oh yes

Is Julien related to Patrice at all?

I only ask because "Patrice Breeze-By" was one of the all-time great NHL nicknames of the 1990's, and I'd love to bring it back.