Is a record of 36-36-10 .500 or below .500?

[SnowblindNYR]

I personally hate when people say that's a 10 games under .500 record consider if a team had a 36-46 record they'd have 10 fewer points in the standings but there are some people on these boards that HATE LOSING SO MUCH that they don't acknowledge the fact that the NHL point system gives points for overtime and shootout losses for over two decades now.

So which is it?

Click to read more...

 

[ESH]

I consider a team over .500 if they have more wins than losses

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I don’t necessarily agree but 30-30-10 is .500. Just the way it’s been interpreted by the league.

 

[Joe n]

I don’t necessarily agree but 30-30-10 is .500. Just the way it’s been interpreted by the league.

If you take away the stupid shootout it's 36 wins 36 losses and 10 ties. That is a .500 record

 

[MtoD]

That record is 0.500 P%.
It's not 0.500 W%.

0.500 doesn't really mean anything on its own. It's shorthand for 0.500 W% in most sports but the NHL very clearly defines 0.500 as P%. Hence having P% on the standings and not W%.

 

[Prairie Habs]

If you take away the stupid shootout it's 36 wins 36 losses and 10 ties. That is a .500 record

That's assuming that none of the wins came in the shootout though. That's only true if they are 0-10 after regulation.

 

[pcruz]

If you take away the stupid shootout it's 36 wins 36 losses and 10 ties. That is a .500 record

Except that since there are no ties, the team has won 36 games and lost 46.

They were gifted a point in 10 of those losses.

 

[wintersej]

If you take away the stupid shootout it's 36 wins 36 losses and 10 ties. That is a .500 record

The annoying part is that if you go 0-0-10 that is .500. But the teams you played went 10-0-0. .500 implies average in our head, but it is below average with 3 point games.

 

[EXTRAS]

That record is 0.500 P%.
It's not 0.500 W%.

0.500 doesn't really mean anything on its own. It's shorthand for 0.500 W% in most sports but the NHL very clearly defines 0.500 as P%. Hence having P% on the standings and not W%.

It isn't even .500p%. Since in the games a team gets a loser point the other team gets 2 points. It actually means a team that is 20-20-5 is 20-25 for winning percentage AND below the average point percentage number.

The annoying part is that if you go 0-0-10 that is .500. But the teams you played went 10-0-0. .500 implies average in our head, but it is below average with 3 point games.

0-0-10 isn't the average team due to the 3 Point games. It's actually below avg

 

[MtoD]

It isn't even .500p%. Since in the games a team gets a loser point the other team gets 2 points. It actually means a team that is 20-20-5 is 20-25 for winning percentage AND below the average point percentage number.

No, it's not. The average point percentage number is just a thing you made up and means absolutely nothing.

A team's point percentage (P%) is (# of points earned/# of points possible). The total number of points given out league wide is irrelevant in any discussion.

 

[EXTRAS]

No, it's not. The average point percentage number is just a thing you made up and means absolutely nothing.

A team's point percentage (P%) is (# of points earned/# of points possible). The total number of points given out league wide is irrelevant in any discussion.

I know I'm wrong but I'm going to continue to disagree with you out of spite

 

[pcruz]

No, it's not. The average point percentage number is just a thing you made up and means absolutely nothing.

A team's point percentage (P%) is (# of points earned/# of points possible). The total number of points given out league wide is irrelevant in any discussion.

Umm

If 2 teams play each other 50 times in a year and Team 1 wins 20, loses 20 and loses 10 in overtime, the stat line looks like:

20 - 20 - 10

That's 50% win and 50% of possible points right.
50 games * 2 points per game = 100 points up for grabs.
Team 1 earned 50 points by winning 20 games and losing 10 in overtime.


Except the other team's statline looks like:

30 - 20 - 0

Team 2 earned 60 points out of the 100 points up for grabs.

Is Team 2 now a 60% winning team?
Yes.

How is it possible that between the 2 teams, there is one team with a 50% winning % and one with a 60%. The math doesn't add up.

 

[Steven Toast]

A team with that record would have a p% of 500 on nhl.com

 

[Suntouchable13]

A team with that record won only 44% of their games. That is not .500. It's an illusion of .500 because the NHL is a joke.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

If you take away the stupid shootout it's 36 wins 36 losses and 10 ties. That is a .500 record

what about OT loses? (Not shootout)

 

[MtoD]

Umm

If 2 teams play each other 50 times in a year and Team 1 wins 20, loses 20 and loses 10 in overtime, the stat line looks like:

20 - 20 - 10

That's 50% win and 50% of possible points right.
50 games * 2 points per game = 100 points up for grabs.
Team 1 earned 50 points by winning 20 games and losing 10 in overtime.


Except the other team's statline looks like:

30 - 20 - 0

Team 2 earned 60 points out of the 100 points up for grabs.

Is Team 2 now a 60% winning team?
Yes.

How is it possible that between the 2 teams, there is one team with a 50% winning % and one with a 60%. The math doesn't add up.

Because the math has nothing to do with the total amount of points given out. There is no defined total amount of points that can be given out in an NHL season.

The equation is very simple. P% = (# of points a team earned)/(total # of points a team could heave earned).

Just because 3 points were given out, it doesn't change the fact that the total # of points a team could have earned from a game was 2 points. The denominator goes up by 2 every game, no matter whether it finished in regulatin or went to OT...

You're operating under the assumption that P% must average out to 0.500. That's not the case because the number of points that can be given out is not static.

 

[pcruz]

Because the math has nothing to do with the total amount of points given out. There is no defined total amount of points that can be given out in an NHL season.

The equation is very simple. P% = (# of points a team earned)/(total # of points a team could heave earned).

Just because 3 points were given out, it doesn't change the fact that the total # of points a team could have earned from a game was 2 points. The denominator goes up by 2 every game, no matter whether it finished in regulatin or went to OT...

You're operating under the assumption that P% must average out to 0.500. That's not the case because the number of points that can be given out is not static.

Doesn't that sound wrong?

Let's propose 2 scenarios with 4 teams each playing 82 games.

Team A plays Team B 82 times.

Team A wins 5 games.
Team B wins 5 games.
Team B wins 72 games in overtime.

Team A's record is as follows: 5 -5 -72
Team B's record is as follows: 77 - 5 - 0

Team A receives 82 points.
Team B receives 154 points.


According to your equation, Team A has a .500 record.
Team B's record is .940


Now, Team C and Team D play each other 82 times as well.

They split their season evenly at 41-41-0 each.

Both teams end up with 82 points.
Both teams are .500

 

[WarriorofTime]

Semantically aside, you really want to see what a team is in relation to average to simulate what that would be if OTLs were just Ties (and OTWs didn't exist)

 

[x Tame Impala]

The votes are 14-14 right now, even. If there was a 3rd option and the votes were 14-14-3 it wouldn’t be even.

To me the record in the OP means the team didn’t win 46 games and is a below 500 team

 

[Toby91ca]

How is this even possible to get a divide in responses…it’s simply a math question, there is no ambiguity here. If you are asking if it’s .500 based on how the NHL shows it in the standings, then yes it is….the NHL doesn’t show a win %, which would be different.

You want to get really ambiguous, you can start figuring out OT and shootout results and how it all fits in as I’m sure there are lots of people that don’t agree with those as being real wins either….suggesting 3v3 isn’t real hockey and shootouts to decide a game it being real either. So the reality is, if you were to just keep playing the same way for 5 min OT…the vast majority of those would end in ties

 

[Regal]

That record is 0.500 P%.
It's not 0.500 W%.

0.500 doesn't really mean anything on its own. It's shorthand for 0.500 W% in most sports but the NHL very clearly defines 0.500 as P%. Hence having P% on the standings and not W%.

All that needs to be said really

 

[LightningStorm]

.500 in terms of what matters in the standings. Wins only come into play when the points are tied, meaning a 41-41 team would win the tiebreak against this one.

Edit: As long as the 41 win team also has more regulation wins, or if that's tied, more ROW wins.

 

[Toby91ca]

.500 in terms of what matters in the standings. Wins only come into play when the points are tied, meaning a 41-41 team would win the tiebreak against this one.

Not necessarily true…if 6 of those wins were in OT or SO, and the 36-36-10 team won all 36 in regulation, then the 36-36-10 team wins tiebreaker

 

[LightningStorm]

Not necessarily true…if 6 of those wins were in OT or SO, and the 36-36-10 team won all 36 in regulation, then the 36-36-10 team wins tiebreaker

Forgot to mention the regulation wins and ROW tiebreakers.

 

[Il Stugotz]

82 points is .500, no matter how you get there.
Every point above 82 = 1 game above .500
Point percentage is all that matters