If you could pick any player heading into the playoffs - where does Crosby rank among choices?

[garyturner3]

1st for me. How do you not take the guy who has won the last two mvps?

Ya really. He should be the only option in this poll!

 

[Yuri35]

He deserved both. You could make a case for Kessel and Malkin, but they both benefited from Crosby drawing the toughest matchups.

As a Pens fan, you should know that Geno plays better against the toughest match ups, especially having more minutes playing in the first line (see 2011-2012
Season or his first big stretch playing without Sid during the 2007-2008 season).

 

[bathdog]

As a Pens fan, you should know that Geno plays better against the toughest match ups, especially having more minutes playing in the first line (see 2011-2012
Season or his first big stretch playing without Sid during the 2007-2008 season).

Obviously Malkin is good enough to be 1C, but I don't think this is close to definiteve proof, it could just as easily be that he just happend to be in peak form. It's a single occasion. There are also contradictory stretches within that season. Crosby only played 22 games, but during the games Crosby played in 11/12 Malkin's scored actually increased slightly (within that very season). That's to me also not proof as the sample size is so small.

Haven't really looked at 07/08. But in the 08/09 SCF final for instance, Crosby drew the toughest matchups. Malkin put up 6 of his 7 SCF points in the first games with what was presumably his matchup out injured (Datsyuk), once Datsyuk came back for the last 3 games he had 1 point in 3 games on brink of elimination. Again, hardly proof of anything, but these single examples can be listed both ways.

I don't think Malkin benefits a ton from matchups, but probably a little bit. Would be interesting to dig into it in depth at some point.

 

[Peat]

1st. He's still the best player in hockey when he wants to be and he's going to want it in the play-offs. Throw in more experience at dealing with the occasion and its sealed for me. Only guy who might make me change my mind is Malkin.

 

[Yuri35]

Obviously Malkin is good enough to be 1C, but I don't think this is close to definiteve proof, it could just as easily be that he just happend to be in peak form. It's a single occasion.

A single occasion which lasted around 110-120 games??

 

[Yuri35]

there are also contradictory stretches within that season. Crosby only played 22 games, but during the games Crosby played in 11/12 Malkin's scored actually increased slightly (within that very season).

When Sid returned, Malkin continued to be putted in the first line and to face the toughest match ups (and to have the most minutes) until the end of season which was understandable after such a long injury for Sid so your point remains irrelevant in the context of this discussion.
The point there was not to say that Sid was making Malkin scoring less, the point was to show that playing on first line with possibly first quality line mates as well and having more minutes more than makes it up for facing toughest defensive units for a guy like Malkin.
And of course, having Sid with him on second line could only boost his stats, especially thanks to the PP.

 

[Yuri35]

Haven't really looked at 07/08. But in the 08/09 SCF final for instance, Crosby drew the toughest matchups. Malkin put up 6 of his 7 SCF points in the first games with what was presumably his matchup out injured (Datsyuk), once Datsyuk came back for the last 3 games he had 1 point in 3 games on brink of elimination. Again, hardly proof of anything, but these single examples can be listed both ways.

I don't think Malkin benefits a ton from matchups, but probably a little bit. Would be interesting to dig into it in depth at some point.

Yeah but you should also never forget who were Malkin's linemates back then : Talbot and Fedotenko.
Considering that, his 36 pts during the POs were probably worth more 40-45 pts and at least 33-34 if he had only faced the toughest defensive units with those linemates.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

As a Pens fan, you should know that Geno plays better against the toughest match ups, especially having more minutes playing in the first line (see 2011-2012
Season or his first big stretch playing without Sid during the 2007-2008 season).

I do agree overall that's true - Malkin shines when Crosby's out of the lineup and he has to carry the team. But in the playoffs it's a bit different imo, i do think Malkin benefits when Detroit puts Zetterberg+Lidstrom on Crosby or SJ puts the Braun-Martin pairing against Crosby. The playoffs are much more matchup driven than the regular season.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Yeah but you should also never forget who were Malkin's linemates back then : Talbot and Fedotenko.
Considering that, his 36 pts during the POs were probably worth more 40-45 pts and at least 33-34 if he had only faced the toughest defensive units with those linemates.

Agree, Malkin fully deserved the 09 conn smythe - no doubt about it.

 

[Varan]

Crosby is my #2. Malkin is #1



Because he certainly didn't deserve the 1st one and last year it could've gone to Malkin just as easily

don't even try to explain that, don't!

 

[bathdog]

A single occasion which lasted around 110-120 games??

What's these 110-120 games? His entire career without Crosby?

What I suggested was 11/12 season Malkin's is one single season that may or may not have had anything to do with Crosby, he could simply have been performing at his highest level. But it could also be as you suggest. I don't think it's fair to simply compare how he did in the games that Crosby was out vs the rest over the course of his entire career when most occured during 07-09 or 11/12. It's pretty clear he's had lesser years outside of that, for reasons that likely has little to do with Crosby, that would skew the numbers.

During 11-13 I'm fairly sure Crosby's being or not being had a larger impact on Pens numbers than Malkin's being or not being. That's not to say Malkin isn't a 1C, or couldn't fill Crosby's shoes well.

When Sid returned, Malkin continued to be putted in the first line and to face the toughest match ups (and to have the most minutes) until the end of season which was understandable after such a long injury for Sid so your point remains irrelevant in the context of this discussion.
The point there was not to say that Sid was making Malkin scoring less, the point was to show that playing on first line with possibly first quality line mates as well and having more minutes more than makes it up for facing toughest defensive units for a guy like Malkin.
And of course, having Sid with him on second line could only boost his stats, especially thanks to the PP.

I wouldn't say anything you've put out here is conclusive.

Crosby did play less so that would support you stance, it obviously would make sense to ease him in. But that has little bearing on what the opposition do or attempt to do matchup wise, I admit that I don't know how that went for those 22 games.

Linemates I usually don't give a ton of weight to, I believe Malkin has generally had as good, if not better, linemates than Crosby either way.

To think that having Crosby on the PP would give him a boost is reasonable, but since that wasn't actually the case numerically it holds little relevance. Malkin scored 0.45 PPP/G in the 24 PPP he had in 53 games without Crosby, and 0.45 PPP/G in the 10 PPP he had in 22 games with Crosby. That having Crosby "on the second line" would boost his stats would implicitly infer that Crosby was drawing matchup attention away from him.

I completely agree with you on the TOI matter. Being given more offensive opportunity (non-SH TOI) will inevitably lead to more points scored.

I'm personally of the opinion that the situation overall is slightly beneficial to Malkin (though not close to as much as it's often made out to be), but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

Yeah but you should also never forget who were Malkin's linemates back then : Talbot and Fedotenko.
Considering that, his 36 pts during the POs were probably worth more 40-45 pts and at least 33-34 if he had only faced the toughest defensive units with those linemates.

Again, the linemate argument is hard to quantify (and generally weak) and seemingly a lot of the time the people using it will turn right around when it doesn't support their view.

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Jarey Curry]

If you could add any player around the NHL to a hockey team heading into the playoffs this year (try to think in a vacuum more than for your specific team requirements) - where does Crosby rank among the players you'd choose first?

1st choice?
2nd choice?
3rd?
4th?
5th?
outside top 5?

If he's not first - name (in order) who you pick above him and why.

Ignore salary and contract. Take into accounts any injuries, whose hot this year vs whose not, etc.

If you look at track record it's easy to say he's first choice (back to back smythes plus overall legacy/career). But there are some players so far this season having absolutely amazing seasons you may decide are simply too good in the moment to pass up on (Malkin, Mack, Kucherov, etc)

So where does Crosby rank among your choices, and why?

His presence alone makes a team that aims to win the whole ****
His output will be invaluable come playoff time... His leadership and ability to take team on his shoulders is uncanny right there with the legends Gretzky, Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman. Easy first choice

 

[Hisch13r]

don't even try to explain that, don't!

They have the same amount of pts in the last 2 playoffs with Malkin having 2 more goals. Over the last 2 regular seasons Malkinn has the best PPG and GPG. Malkin is the best player in the world. As for the Smythe 2016 is self explanatory and last season Malkin was the more consistent player

 

[Varan]

They have the same amount of pts in the last 2 playoffs with Malkin having 2 more goals. Over the last 2 regular seasons Malkinn has the best PPG and GPG. Malkin is the best player in the world. As for the Smythe 2016 is self explanatory and last season Malkin was the more consistent player

I hope we're on the same page because I'm agreeing with you haha

 

[PensandCaps]

Malkin
Kopitar
Crosby

 

[daver]

They have the same amount of pts in the last 2 playoffs with Malkin having 2 more goals. Over the last 2 regular seasons Malkinn has the best PPG and GPG. Malkin is the best player in the world. As for the Smythe 2016 is self explanatory and last season Malkin was the more consistent player

Crosby plays the #1C role and gets Selke recognition while Malkin gets the easier matchups, and more offensive zone starts. Crosby was deemed to be better the last two playoffs especially in the SCF. This year will be the 2nd time Malkin has outpointed and outPPGed Crosby in 12 seasons.