If our scouts are so good...

[Stylizer1]

Why can't they find some diamonds in the ruff on other teams? Maybe just good players you could fit seamlessly into our system?

The coach has to play players out of position. Management can't even call up players because there is no one left.

We have so much wasted money on players who just don't fit.

Every game we see the same problems and Murray continues to say he's looking but it's tough.

Click to read more...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Amateur scouts and the pro scouts are two different groups of people.

 

[starling]

Who said they are good?

 

[Senscore]

Amateur scouts and the pro scouts are two different groups of people.

Very different in this case.

 

[Stylizer1]

Amateur scouts and the pro scouts are two different groups of people.

At some point amateur scouts have seen these players play. Here's an idea, how a bout the pro scouts and the amateur scouts work together?


So our Pro scouts suck then?

 

[Boud]

That's more on Murray than the scouting staff. The scouting staffs job is to scout players, not make trades or even suggest players unless they're being asked to give an opinion. They just file in their reports and it's up to Lee who's in charge of the player development and Dorion to look at those and make recommendations to Murray. Then comes the complications of making a trade like NMC, interest to trade a certain player, is there a match between teams to do a trade and etc..

Unless Murray, Dorion(who was a scout himself) come out and say hey we want a defensemen right now find us something interesting then there's not really much they can do.

We have one of the top 5 scouting in the NHL, if theres one thing keeping us alive it's certainly scouting being a budget team.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

And you are confusing the role of an amateur scout and a pro scout. And we did okay with Turris, Anderson and Methot.

 

[Stylizer1]

And you are confusing the role of an amateur scout and a pro scout. And we did okay with Turris, Anderson and Methot.

So we can only make good trades every 4 years?

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

So we can only make good trades every 4 years?

Was the Ryan trade 4 years ago already?

 

[Stylizer1]

That's more on Murray than the scouting staff. The scouting staffs job is to scout players, not make trades or even suggest players unless they're being asked to give an opinion. They just file in their reports and it's up to Lee who's in charge of the player development and Dorion to look at those and make recommendations to Murray. Then comes the complications of making a trade like NMC, interest to trade a certain player, is there a match between teams to do a trade and etc..

Unless Murray, Dorion(who was a scout himself) come out and say hey we want a defensemen right now find us something interesting then there's not really much they can do.

We have one of the top 5 scouting in the NHL, if theres one thing keeping us alive it's certainly scouting being a budget team.

I understand that whole process. Murray doesn't know every playe in the league. Murray is the one saying he's looking so then so are the scouts. It has been years that we have been looking.

 

[Stylizer1]

Was the Ryan trade 4 years ago already?

Well he is in his 3rd season with us.

The players you mentioned have been though.

 

[Boud]

So we can only make good trades every 4 years?

Even after a good trade, signing, or move, or after having one of the best scouting staff in the NHL, some people are just never happy. That's kind of the way it is around here. Your bad shots count but your good ones don't or are downplayed because being negative is more interesting to spark a debate. I don't know what our team would look like without our prolific scouting and minimized spending. One thing is for sure though, people are always going to complain until we win 98 games in a season and our 4rth line is made of Ovechkin, Crosby and Kane.

MacArthur,Ryan,Hammond(Yea, he was signed),O'Connor(project) in recent years.

I'd say these we're all good finds.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Why can't they find some diamonds in the ruff on other teams? Maybe just good players you could fit seamlessly into our system?

The coach has to play players out of position. Management can't even call up players because there is no one left.

We have so much wasted money on players who just don't fit.

Every game we see the same problems and Murray continues to say he's looking but it's tough.

I was about to say uhhhh Hoffman stone?! But now I see what you're saying. Yeah I dono. But it's not like other teams are finding these gold trades every year. We found turris. Which was huge. I think each team pulls on of those off everyone few years.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

If the poutine in ottawa is so good, why hasn't the light rail completed built yet?

 

[Stylizer1]

I was about to say uhhhh Hoffman stone?! But now I see what you're saying. Yeah I dono. But it's not like other teams are finding these gold trades every year. We found turris. Which was huge. I think each team pulls on of those off everyone few years.

I'm not even talking about an amazing trade where we steal candy from a baby. Just a different look.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I'm not even talking about an amazing trade where we steal candy from a baby. Just a different look.

Yeah well Murray seems a little trigger shy. And we have a weird dynamic. Some of our players are close to relatively untouchable (methot karlsson hoff stone turris Ryan ). Then there's the players that Murray considers untouchable and fawns over for one reason or another (Cowen smith Neil boro chiasson pageu lazar ceci ). So who else is there to trade. Zibanejad? He's the one attractive piece I think he would trade

Pageau is the only really good player in that last list who Murray won't trade. I don't think Murray will trade chiasson as that would signal that he failed with the Spezza deal. Ceci also deserved to be kept. Those other guys Murray considers part of our core. So when Murray looks at this team. I don't think he sees many moveable pieces.

 

[Stylizer1]

Yeah well Murray seems a little trigger shy. And we have a weird dynamic. Some of our players are close to relatively untouchable (methot karlsson hoff stone turris Ryan ). Then there's the players that Murray considers untouchable and fawns over for one reason or another (Cowen smith Neil boro chiasson pageu lazar ceci ). So who else is there to trade. Zibanejad? He's the one attractive piece I think he would trade

Pageau is the only really good player in that last list who Murray won't trade. I don't think Murray will trade chiasson as that would signal that he failed with the Spezza deal. Ceci also deserved to be kept. Those other guys Murray considers part of our core. So when Murray looks at this team. I don't think he sees many moveable pieces.

Throw some picks/prospects/first borns in.

 

[HispanicAtTheDisco]

I think they do a decent job, IMO they just aren't crazy aggressive looking for trades.

Ryan and Turris have fit in very well with our team and are huge parts of the forward group, as is Methot with the defense, Anderson is one of the best goalies we've ever had.. Even Hemsky killed it when he was here for around twenty games.

Trading for Bishop was a brilliant move, trading him wasn't so great but Conacher looked great at the time, Filatov was a low risk/high reward deal that didn't work out, the Kassian trade did what it was expected.

The only bad one over the past couple of years was the Spezza trade, and Murray didn't have much of a choice.

 

[Ouroboros]

One issue is that they're possibly understaffed - 3 pro scouts doesn't seem like a lot to cover the entire NHL and AHL. Seems like most teams have more like 5 guys. That's not even getting into whether they are actually good at their job; it's not quite the same thing, but neither Abbamont or Clark had stellar records when they were running drafts for their previous clubs.

One thing the Sens really like is familiarity. You can see this when you look at some of the guys who are usually considered pro scouting wins for us. When we acquired Turris, we had Greg Royce on staff who was involved in drafting him in Phoenix. Our head pro scout Jim Clark drafted Methot in Columbus. Murray said he personally saw a lot of Anderson when visiting his daughter in Colorado. They bring in a ton of guys with local ties. Plenty of other examples as well. Hard to say whether this is tied in to having a small staff or perhaps a familiarity bias but it's interesting.

 

[dmarc]

And you are confusing the role of an amateur scout and a pro scout. And we did okay with Turris, Anderson and Methot.

MacArthur too, before the coco brains of course

 

[TheNewEra]

im pretty sure we picked up paul for that reason in the spezza deal

 

[bert]

Why can't they find some diamonds in the ruff on other teams? Maybe just good players you could fit seamlessly into our system?

The coach has to play players out of position. Management can't even call up players because there is no one left.

We have so much wasted money on players who just don't fit.

Every game we see the same problems and Murray continues to say he's looking but it's tough.

there is a difference between pro scouts and amateur scouts you know this right? It's also not managements fault this coach has lost his mind.

 

[The Lewler]

Why do we seem to overvalue some prospects?

And by we, I mean the Sens, is it confirmation bias?

I don't mean on HFboards.. since it's all about valuing prospects over everything.

 

[BonkTastic]

If our scouts are so good, why can't they slide into the lineup as 20-goal wingers or dependable #4 defencemen? Or find a way to convince the NCC to accept our bid for the new downtown arena? Or balance the federal budget?!?

Buncha useless scouts...

 

[NyQuil]

Why do we seem to overvalue some prospects?

And by we, I mean the Sens, is it confirmation bias?

I don't mean on HFboards.. since it's all about valuing prospects over everything.

I think entry level contracts are extremely valuable for internal cap teams like the Senators.

If you can get an NHLer, or better yet, a top 6 or top 4 player on a cheap entry level salary, that gives you a lot more flexibility with your cap dollars.