If Monahan, Bennett, and Tkachuk were taken, who would we have picked?

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Our record before Monahan was equally abysmal. I'm unwilling to believe that our team has improved significantly outside of him and JH. Maybe Backlund has progressed, and now we have Tkachuk too in the last season, but gio is arguably a bit worse than he was, brodie in spite of spurts doesn't seem to be on the same level, and hamilton plays like j-bouw more often than we'd like to say.

Monahan gets a completely undue amount of hate around here. He's certainly no liability.

Giordano is worse than before we had Monahan? That's complete news to me. Giordano rose to elite status after he was named captain. Giordano had a poor lockout season. Brodie's offensive game surged in 2014-2015 and onwards. Tkachuk, Hamilton, Frolik, better goaltending, JH, and getting rid of deadweights is what improved this team.

 

[Dack]

Yes seriously, Monahan has faced top defensive coverage from opposing teams since he joined the flames. Backlund faces the opposing team's best offensive line and most often their second or third d pairing. Monahan still faces the best d pairing, in spite of Backlund's performance last season. So again, unless you're trying to tell me that you're a better judge of talent than 30 other NHL head coaches, I would say you're wrong.

This is just BS. He's already top 25 easy, and he certainly could become elite. As Meth points out, he's produced points in the top 15. People forget how good he is because he's legit a boring player to watch.

Monahan is more likely to score than Backlund you got me there. But Backlund outplayed him last season he hasn't this season he didn't the season before but Backlund driving possession and goals was a better all around player last year.

Monahan also plays with a winger that has the ability to take over a game. I'd say that more than likely factored into a coaches decision making when he decided to put out his top pairing against that line. Again I'm not arguing that he's a better point producer I'm saying that because they were so close in points Backlunds elite defensive play and PK ability against other teams top lines gives him an edge for me. I'd even say Backlund outplayed Johnny who outscored Sean despite playing 10 less games, Backlund and his linemates were dominant up until late last year.

 

[Fig]

Barkov might be injured, but even including injury his impact on his team is far superior than Monahans. Imagine without. Yes I get the what ifs, but in this scenario, Barkov's impact even when injured is already better...

Silly question, but do the mentors change any of your thoughts?

Barkov was mentored by Jagr early in his career.
Monahan was mentored by McGrattan early in his career.


I think we were spoiled with Mony/Tkachuk and Bennett who entered the league immediately after being drafted. Mony and Tkachuk IMO both grew better and faster in the NHL than if they were to be sent down, but Bennett I'm not so sure. Draisaitl for instance did poorly in his draft season. But a stint in the WHL helped lots and he plays more wing than C. He's killing it right now. Nylander was also brought in slowly playing in Sweden then AHL IIRC. Same as Ehlers if I'm not mistaken who spent a year in the minors.

Bennett doesn't get that option though, but sometimes I wonder like others if Bennett suddenly blossoms if given that sheltered time on wing to rebuild himself. Honestly, I'm not sure what the best development path for him is, but I am agreeing much more warmly to the idea of moving him to wing lately.

 

[Volica]

1C in the "truest form". What a load of horse****.

1C stands for 1st line center.

There are 31 teams with 1st lines. Thus the top 31 centers would be #1C. I'm willing to relax on the definition that some teams have 2 and others have none. But there is 1 number 1 center for every team

By your logic, Craig Conroy circa 2003 was a 1st line centre. Currently, Cody Eakin should be held to the same standard as Monahan as he’s a 1C.

No, that, is a load of horseshit, in its truest form.

When players are drafted and scouts, analysts and GMs discuss ‘we think he could be a first line centre’ they don’t mean that their team will have no centre depth and the kid will be a defacto player who plays on their first line. There are by, lets say, dictionary definition, 31 1C’s in the league. There are, by hockey standards (the standard that most people who follow the sport closely live by) much fewer. How long did we in Calgary say ‘we need a top line centre soooo bad’ while Iggy was here? But yet we likely had 2 dozen guys play 1C for us over that span...?

To put Monahan in the same category as Kopitar, The Pens duo, McDavid, Bergeron, Toews, Seguin, Stamkos, Matthews, Schiefele, Johansen, Backstrom, Tavares, Getzlaf or Eichel... is just foolish. He’s in that next tier mid pack with guys like Turris or ROR.

I’m not saying he’s not a good player, so let your panties loosen a bit; I’m saying that he’s not a 1C you workhorse to the cup. He’s not even Calgary’s best centre.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Silly question, but do the mentors change any of your thoughts?

Barkov was mentored by Jagr early in his career.
Monahan was mentored by McGrattan early in his career.


I think we were spoiled with Mony/Tkachuk and Bennett who entered the league immediately after being drafted. Mony and Tkachuk IMO both grew better and faster in the NHL than if they were to be sent down, but Bennett I'm not so sure. Draisaitl for instance did poorly in his draft season. But a stint in the WHL helped lots and he plays more wing than C. He's killing it right now. Nylander was also brought in slowly playing in Sweden then AHL IIRC. Same as Ehlers if I'm not mistaken who spent a year in the minors.

Bennett doesn't get that option though, but sometimes I wonder like others if Bennett suddenly blossoms if given that sheltered time on wing to rebuild himself. Honestly, I'm not sure what the best development path for him is, but I am agreeing much more warmly to the idea of moving him to wing lately.

I realize Barkov was mentored by Jagr, and I don't disagree that he played a strong role, nevertheless are we talking about individual ability, or overall impact on team? Because if latter, Barkov has a strong impact than Monahan, even if he was mentored by Jagr. Let's see how Jagr helps Monahan out.

 

[Fig]

I realize Barkov was mentored by Jagr, and I don't disagree that he played a strong role, nevertheless are we talking about individual ability, or overall impact on team? Because if latter, Barkov has a strong impact than Monahan, even if he was mentored by Jagr. Let's see how Jagr helps Monahan out.

Sorry, my point was more along the lines of: Are we giving our players the best environment to succeed? (Ugh, Me thinks I'm having a horrid day organizing my thoughts)

In a vacuum, would Monahan be superior if mentored by Jagr over McGrattan. Sure probably. In some senses, Monahan had to develop his own game to help the team. I'm pointing at the idea of him leapfrogging Stajan and Backlund for 1C.

In a horrid, horrid combination of the english verse, I think what I'm trying to say is that Monahan might have been the best option of that entire group. Even Barkov. I'm seriously curious to know if anyone in that group would have continue to grow the same if given Monahan's role here.

Barkov oft injured but sent to war by Hartley would probably not do very well.
Mackinnon we've seen what happened in Colorado. Hartley deploying him isn't too different.
Lindholm perhaps not. Slow even with support.

A few of the other names didn't jump into the NHL like Monahan. They were slow cooked to perfection Treliving style. In my other post (wall of text) I mentioned our AHL affiliates and ECHL affiliates looked to be a mess. I honestly don't know and I don't believe those same names come out the same if sent through our system.

 

[Lunatik]

By your logic, Craig Conroy circa 2003 was a 1st line centre. Currently, Cody Eakin should be held to the same standard as Monahan as he’s a 1C.

try reading everything I said for a change.

 

[bluedevil58]

How do you guys perceive Lindholm? I'm curious.

 

[Anglesmith]

By your logic, Craig Conroy circa 2003 was a 1st line centre. Currently, Cody Eakin should be held to the same standard as Monahan as he’s a 1C.

That wasn't his logic, though.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

You're a stats man, Dack. Monahan has the most GWG of any forward since he entered the NHL. Further, he has improved his defensive play and faceoff ability every year. He consistently faces the hardest defensive matchup on the team meaning that other teams consider him the best C on the flames. Finally, he makes johnny better too.

Finally, he's only 23. Jankowski is actually older than him. Why on earth do you believe that he doesn't have room for improvement? What would he reasonably have to do to change your mind on that front?

Monahan doesn't even take close to the hardest competition on the Flames. That's easily Backlund. Monahan gets a ton of offensive zone starts, and stats do not say he's improved his defensive play minus the 2014-2015 season.

 

[Flameshomer]

Monahan doesn't even take close to the hardest competition on the Flames. That's easily Backlund. Monahan gets a ton of offensive zone starts, and stats do not say he's improved his defensive play minus the 2014-2015 season.

Backlund plays most often against the opposition's best forwards and Monahan gets the best d pairings.