If Jakub Kindl beats out XO and Marchenko for a roster spot...

[Heaton]

What does that say to you about:

• Jeff Blashill
• Jakub Kindl
• XO and Marchenko

Click to read more...

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I think it says more about XO and Marchenko. At some point, you have to convert that potential ability into actual ability and make an NHL team. You only get to be a prospect for so long, and those two are starting to push it.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

It strongly suggests that:

(a) Ken Holland truly and sincerely believes that a team needs 8 or 9 NHL defensemen over the course of a season.

(b) We can't give Kindl away.

 

[Vladdy84]

Kindl isn't nearly as bad as people on this board perceive him to be.

 

[Actual Thought*]

XO and Marchenko aren't as good as Kindl in camp?

 

[Heaton]

I think it says more about XO and Marchenko. At some point, you have to convert that potential ability into actual ability and make an NHL team. You only get to be a prospect for so long, and those two are starting to push it.

This is exactly why I'm worried about our future defensemen. By not producing anyone better than Ericsson since Kronwall in 2000, we're getting to a point where our defense is going to get much worse before it gets better.

It strongly suggests that:

(a) Ken Holland truly and sincerely believes that a team needs 8 or 9 NHL defensemen over the course of a season.

(b) We can't give Kindl away.

I think we'll still need 8 or 9 defensemen, but Kindl having an opening night roster spot? That's scary.

Kindl isn't nearly as bad as people on this board perceive him to be.

No, but he's not that good either. He's not great offensively, not good defensively. He's a #7 at best.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

This answer is bigger than the question, because I believe the question is actually bigger.

I think the real question here is more along the lines of what will happen with Blash as the coach (and, I know there is a thread on that already), i.e. is the Blash era a continuation of the Babcock era, or is it a new beginning.

If Blash is Babs 2.0, it will say that Kindl fits the Babs style of play better (which is a bit hard to believe by the evidence we have) or that someone (Blash, maybe Holland) thinks he does.

My hope is that the Blash era is a new beginning, with a clean slate for everyone, including Kindl, Howard, etc. If that is true, it means that Kindl fits Blash's vision better than XO and Marchy. Also a bit hard to believe by the evidence we have, but could happen.

Unless Blash ushers in a new era and senior manangement is on board with that, Blash will end up being Dave Lewis 2.0... with the same ultimate result.

 

[Flowah]

Kindl isn't nearly as bad as people on this board perceive him to be.

He goes through phases. Sometimes he looks legit with some good offensive instincts. Sometimes he looks like a dumpster fire.

The problem here is that defensemen, almost more than anyone else, need to be consistent. And he's not. And if he's not and he's had a bunch of years to find it, maybe it's time to give someone younger a shot.

 

[Hammettf2b]

This is exactly why I'm worried about our future defensemen. By not producing anyone better than Ericsson since Kronwall in 2000, we're getting to a point where our defense is going to get much worse before it gets better.



I think we'll still need 8 or 9 defensemen, but Kindl having an opening night roster spot? That's scary.



No, but he's not that good either. He's not great offensively, not good defensively. He's a #7 at best.

He may not be great, but one could argue hes our best offensive D man we have not named Kronwall. (Not including Zids of course)

 

[Heaton]

This answer is bigger than the question, because I believe the question is actually bigger.

I think the real question here is more along the lines of what will happen with Blash as the coach (and, I know there is a thread on that already), i.e. is the Blash era a continuation of the Babcock era, or is it a new beginning.

If Blash is Babs 2.0, it will say that Kindl fits the Babs style of play better (which is a bit hard to believe by the evidence we have) or that someone (Blash, maybe Holland) thinks he does.

My hope is that the Blash era is a new beginning, with a clean slate for everyone, including Kindl, Howard, etc. If that is true, it means that Kindl fits Blash's vision better than XO and Marchy. Also a bit hard to believe by the evidence we have, but could happen.

Unless Blash ushers in a new era and senior manangement is on board with that, Blash will end up being Dave Lewis 2.0... with the same ultimate result.

This is terrifying to me. If Holland sits on his hands and we trot out the same roster we had last year because everyone gets a 'clean slate', we're in real danger of never improving.

He may not be great, but one could argue hes our best offensive D man we have not named Kronwall. (Not including Zids of course)

He has 62 points in 248 games while playing in a mostly offensive role when given opportunities. He's not that good offensively, you can say he is good because we have literally no one else good offensively besides Kronwall on defense.

 

[Hammettf2b]

This is terrifying to me. If Holland sits on his hands and we trot out the same roster we had last year because everyone gets a 'clean slate', we're in real danger of never improving.



He has 62 points in 248 games while playing in a mostly offensive role when given opportunities. He's not that good offensively, you can say he is good because we have literally no one else good offensively besides Kronwall on defense.

Totally agree with you, but that's the situation we are in right now. Hopefully Smith will start contributing. That would be ideal.

 

[Frk It]

I'm more scared of....

If Kindl doesn't beat them out, but Holland sends XO and Marchenko down anyways.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I'm more scared of....

If Kindl doesn't beat them out, but Holland sends XO and Marchenko down anyways.

That is the whole "we need 7-8 defensemen over the course of the year, " argument.

 

[Henkka]

I honestly believe, we'll see a better Jakub Kindl under different coach, who won't push so much mentally as Babcock did.

But still, won't see Kindl as long-term Red Wings plans, more of getting his trade value back, which is zero atm.

If Smith is not traded and re-signed, I think XO will stay down until we move a body and Marchenko starts up.

Kronner - E
DeKeyser - Q
Smith - M
Kindl - (XO)

 

[Heaton]

I honestly believe, we'll see a better Jakub Kindl under different coach, who won't push so much mentally as Babcock did.

But still, won't see Kindl as long-term Red Wings plans, more of getting his trade value back, which is zero atm.

If Smith is not traded and re-signed, I think XO will stay down until we move a body and Marchenko starts up.

Kronner - E
DeKeyser - Q
Smith - M
Kindl - (XO)

Do you consider that defense an improvement over last year? I think unless we see some drastic differences with how we approach it we're destined for more issues.

 

[Winger98]

I think it says more about Holland than it says about Blashill or the players. We've gotten the same lip service for the few years about players earning their spots in camp, etc., and we've seen reports out of pretty much every camp of Babcock wanting to keep this or that kid on the roster and then that kid going to Grand Rapids. Until the Wings actions matches their words, I'm not reading much of anything into who does and doesn't break camp with the team.

 

[HockeyinHD]

If we're talking about the #6, 7 and 8 spots depth-wise I don't think it says anything of import about anybody relevant.

I mean, the final active spot on the roster, the guy in street clothes and the guy in GR waiting by the phone? Not too concerned about that stuff. There are far larger things to consider on the team.

 

[Flowah]

Do you consider that defense an improvement over last year? I think unless we see some drastic differences with how we approach it we're destined for more issues.

Marchy over the average of Kindl's performance last season is a marginal upgrade. We're talking about a #6 guy, a bottom pairing guy, who played limited minutes, and who's going to replace him.

It's not going to be a huge difference, especially since AM has a lot to learn still, he's a rookie. But I guess small improvements where you can make them and hope that the younger guy shows you more than the guy who's had like 5 years.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Frankly, I think Marchenko and Ouellet are both already better than Kindl. So.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

It tells me that Holland refused to waive him.

 

[joe89]

If they are the three competing for one spot it means that Holland didn't do squat to improve the defense and we have the same top5 as last year. Would be very bad news no matter what Ouellet and Marchenko can do for our bottom/2nd pair.

 

[19 for president]

Its a bit scary since by default I think Blash would lean towards the dman he knows which are XO and Marchy. So if neither of them can beat out Kindl for the 6th spot, then we have issues with our prospects. With that said I fully expect one of the two to end up in GR and for Kindl to probably be our 7th dman. I don't think Kindl is dealable unless we take on a bad contract back.

 

[Henkka]

Do you consider that defense an improvement over last year? I think unless we see some drastic differences with how we approach it we're destined for more issues.

I could see it will be at least equal. DeKeyser will get better as others (Kronner&Ericsson) could decline.

Kindl to probably be our 7th dman. I don't think Kindl is dealable unless we take on a bad contract back.

Bad contracts usually are moveable until they hit on the last year. Kindl has 2 years left so we have to go with for at least a year.

I'd move Smith & helm + possible extra to get that defensive upgrade.

In an ideal world, we get that trade for a guy like "Phaneuf", and can ease Ericsson's minutes on third pair.

Kronwall - "phaneuf"
DeKeyser - Quincey
Ericsson - Marchenko/Ouellet
Kindl

Ouellet and Marchenko could split games up, or be both up, if there's injuries. That way they could both end to ~60 games.

Then at next offseason, we let Quincey walk and it opens a spot for both Ouellet and Marchenko. Kindl is still a 7th D, could be traded or not to be traded. Contract dies away after that 2016-17 season.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Kindl will be on the opening day roster, so will Smith with a new contract.

Can't lose that depth.

It keeps the Wings in the playoffs don't ya know.

---

Anyone got Holland's trade history?

 

[SoupNazi]

Anyone got Holland's trade history?

Yes. This thread.