If Gretzky played in this era, would he still be considered the GOAT?

[GreatGonzo]

People tried to hit him, they just couldn't. His enforcers didn't stop people from checking him, players who played against him compared it to trying to hit a shadow.

This is true, His skating and agility are greatly underrated.

I was referring to players going out of there way to try to hurt him. They knew who they had to answer to.

 

[BeastoftheEast85]

Ide love to be proven wrong but while I think a Gretzky today would be the best player in the era, I don’t see how a he could dominate today’s game like the 80s .

It’s just so different:
- There is probably twice as much talent in the league today as Gretzky’s prime due to the influx of international talent.
- The average skater today looks a good deal smoother with the newer skating styles brought over from Europe. I think due to this and better focus on defense, Average defenders lookmore capable then in the past.
- Goaltending has been revolutionized. The position just looks so much different. You take a average butterfly goalie today (albeit with his marshmallow padding) into the mid 80s and he’d dominate the league.

 

[Sentinel]

I dont think he would be. He faced goalies that were awful and never had to face tight checking. Not to mention a much more physical league.

Hasek, Roy, Belfour, Brodeur, Richter... Real scrubs.

This thread surfaces once every few months and every time my faith in humanity intelligence errodes.

In the league without red line, no touch policy, and goalies dropping to their knees when forwards enter their zone? The league of structure? 99 would tear it apart and not break a sweat.

 

[Varan]

For those millemials: 66 came out of retirement at the age of 35 after missing 3 seasons, and in 43 games put up 76 pts.

P/G Leaders:
Lemieux: 1.77
Prime Jagr: 1.49
Peak Sakic: 1.44
Prime Forsberg: 1.22

To answer the OP, yes. Yes, Gretzky would still be the GOAT.

Also for the basketball guys, LeBron is well on his way to #2 and is probably closer to Jordan than you'd want to believe.

can't put LeBron over Kareem or Tim Duncan

 

[GreatGonzo]

Ide love to be proven wrong but while I think a Gretzky today would be the best player in the era, I don’t see how a he could dominate today’s game like the 80s .

It’s just so different:
- There is probably twice as much talent in the league today as Gretzky’s prime due to the influx of international talent.
- The average skater today looks a good deal smoother with the newer skating styles brought over from Europe. I think due to this and better focus on defense, Average defenders lookmore capable then in the past.
- Goaltending has been revolutionized. The position just looks so much different. You take a mediocre butterfly goalie today (albeit with his marshmallow padding) into the mid 80s and he’d dominate the league.

But if Gretzky played today, he would have grown up already within that style and atmosphere, with the same equipment and understanding of the rules.

He wouldn’t be scoring 200 points, but people forget his hockey sense. That doesn’t just magically decrease in terms of era. He would always find a way to dominate because he was simply a genius on the ice.

People focus so much on the 80s but totally bypass his play up until the very last season of his career. The way Gretzky played the last few years in the league, where the players, goaltending, and overall skill of the game is really no different from today, a young and healthy Gretzky would be amazing.

 

[shtorm2005]

Just a question, what do you need to be considered better than Gretzky?
1) Need to get more points? better ppg? Better peak season?
2) Dominate the league like he did?
3) More assists or goals or both with era adjusted numbers?

Or simply no one can beat him same as no one can beat Tomas Edisson because he invented light bulb. And since nobody can invent something as important as him, nobody is better. Even if any technician or engineer can make a light bulb on his own today.

 

[TheAngryHank]

if i got a dime from every old person that didn't tell me the entire world used to be better, i'd have zero dimes

Im sure at any age your bigger stronger faster than me at the same age.

 

[12345678910]

For those millemials: 66 came out of retirement at the age of 35 after missing 3 seasons, and in 43 games put up 76 pts.

P/G Leaders:
Lemieux: 1.77
Prime Jagr: 1.49
Peak Sakic: 1.44
Prime Forsberg: 1.22

To answer the OP, yes. Yes, Gretzky would still be the GOAT.

Also for the basketball guys, LeBron is well on his way to #2 and is probably closer to Jordan than you'd want to believe.

Came to post this and figured someone else already would have.

A washed up Mario dominated the league with players like Jagr in their prime.

Jagr still put up decent numbers in this era as a washed up 40+ something.

Wayne and Mario would be the best players in the game. No question.

 

[DKH]

He would be crushed in today's game

He'd be good but not great

 

[TeeTee]

VAN	Richard Brodeur	32
VAN	Kirk McLean	28
CGY	Mike Vernon	28
MIN, WAS	Don Beaupre	25
CGY, BOS	Rejean Lemelin	25
STL, HTF, WAS	Mike Liut	24
WPG	Brian Hayward	22
PIT, HTF, STL	Greg Millen	22
LA	Mario Lessard	21
EDM, WAS, TB	Bill Ranford	21
BUF, CGY	Don Edwards	19
NYI	Billy Smith	18
VAN, NYR, DET	Glen Hanlon	15
CGY, WAS, BOS	Pat Riggin	14
NYR, FLA	John Vanbiesbrouck	14
MTL, STL, CGY	Rick Wamsley	13
BUF, PIT	Tom Barrasso	12
WPG, MTL, NYR	Doug Soetaert	12
TOR, PHI, PIT	Ken Wregget	12
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PHI, NYI	Ron Hextall	11
BOS, DAL	Andy Moog	11
NYI, CLR, NJD	Chico Resch	11
PHI, TOR	Rick St. Croix	11
MTL, QUE	Richard Sevigny	11
MIN, PIT	Gilles Meloche	10
TOR	Felix Potvin	10
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CHI	Murray Bannerman	9
WPG	Marc Behrend	9
EDM, TOR	Grant Fuhr	9
LA, NYI	Glenn Healy	9
MTL, PIT	Denis Herron	9
QUE, WAS, BUF	Clint Malarchuk	9
PHI	Pete Peeters	9
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DET	Greg Stefan	9
TOR	Tim Bernhardt	8
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PHI	Pelle Lindbergh	8
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MIN	Jon Casey	4
ANA	Guy Hebert	4
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QUE, OTT	Ron Tugnutt	4
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LA	Mike Blake	3
LA, BOS	Byron Dafoe	3
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TB	Corey Schwab	2
CHI	Warren Skorodenski	2
WAS	Wayne Stephenson	2
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FLA	Kevin Weekes	2
HTF, VAN	Kay Whitmore	2
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DAL	Ed Belfour	1
MTL	J.C. Bergeron	1
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NYI	Wade Flaherty	1
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STL	Rick Heinz	1
PIT	Robbie Holland	1
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NYI	Danny Lorenz	1
QUE	Bob Mason	1
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NYI	Tommy Salo	1
SJ	Geoff Sarjeant	1
PIT	Peter Skudra	1
HTF	Al Smith	1
NYI	Tommy Soderstrom	1
TOR	Vincent Tremblay	1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[byrath]

Prime Gretzky would be the best player in the league right now, I've little doubt about that .. I'm not sure if he'd pass Orr, Lemieux and Howe on peoples lists. It'd probably come down to where he played, who he played with and how much playoff success he had.

 

[MessierII]

Imagine prime Henrik Sedin then imagine him as the best goal scorer in the league as well.

 

[pcruz]

In these hypothetical scenarios with Wayne and Bobby and Mario, have people ever considered the fact that they played in an era where there was no freedom to skate through the ice without a second thought about personal safety. Hooking, clutching, grabbing, slashing, charging, late......very late....hits were not only accepted, but they were the norm.

Can you imagine a league with Mario and/or Wayne where they not only have the absolute pinnacle of equipment, nutrition, conditioning, but they also have absolute freedom to create and/or score.
Wayne would have no need for an enforcer on his line, instead he could get himself a player with the finishing ability of Benn as opposed to McSorley.
Mario could dance end to end without Paul Coffey water-skiing behind him.

Do the hockey sticks weigh 5 lbs or 15Oz?
Do the players have to change through 3 pairs of gloves because the leather soaks up water/sweat and end up weighing 5 lbs each?
Do the players' skates fit perfectly to the feet and weigh next to nothing while having razor-sharp and grooved blades, or are they just square edges?

 

[LeafFever]

Yes he would. People underrate Gretzky on here. Most assists than anyone has total points. Had over 90 points at age 37 with a bad back at the height of the trap era...

 

[Passchendaele]

Oh my god.. things we read.

'bigger, tougher league'

.. say what?
Fights have gone down like 50% over the last 10-15 years. Goons are basically out of the NHL unless they have at least some puck skills.

In other news, Johnny Gaudreau is among the NHL's leading scorers at 5'7, 150 lbs.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Till this day, I have never seen anyone else set up behind the goalie like Gretzky did.

The tactical advantage for setting up behind the net:
- Goalie has to choose whether to stare at the puck carrier, or the 4 players that the greatest passer in history will pass to.
- Dman has to pick a side to attack Gretzky, which will open up the slot to the greatest passer of all time.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Gretzky wouldn't be the Gretzky he was if he grew up today.

If he were somehow the player he was showing up in the NHL today with the vision and creativity he had... then look out. He'd be lapping the field just like he did back in the day. His vision is simply unparalleled in the history of the game -- and so was his drive to be the best.

 

[Fig]

Ide love to be proven wrong but while I think a Gretzky today would be the best player in the era, I don’t see how a he could dominate today’s game like the 80s .

It’s just so different:
- There is probably twice as much talent in the league today as Gretzky’s prime due to the influx of international talent.
- The average skater today looks a good deal smoother with the newer skating styles brought over from Europe. I think due to this and better focus on defense, Average defenders lookmore capable then in the past.
- Goaltending has been revolutionized. The position just looks so much different. You take a average butterfly goalie today (albeit with his marshmallow padding) into the mid 80s and he’d dominate the league.

The funniest thing is that all of these actually play to Gretzky's strengths.

1. In general, Gretzky's points were about 3:1 assists to goals. Gretzky only needs to feed modern NHL players that are already adept at scoring on modern goalies. In some senses, Gretzky's underrated strengths was utilizing his teammates. That means he takes advantage of stronger and faster teammates.

2. This perhaps is also hugely due to modern equipment that weighs way less. Gretzky likely would get a minor speed boost from modern equipment that negates the modern difference in speed and styles. But the team around him is also stronger.

3. Possibly the defenders look more capable than in the past, but that's perhaps the system. Gretzky excelled in 4 on 4 and 3 on 3 scenarios. The guy was a master at taking advantage of extra space. He would easily be able to do his thing during PPs. You also have to keep in mind that the way Gretzky embarrassed dmen drawing them to him, then passing to a teammate for a goal is still relevant today. Offsetting penalties were known as the Gretzky rule.

4. Sure, goalies are better, but it doesn't matter. As mentioned in point 1, the modern day players are part of Gretzky's advantage, not detriment. Let's also mention that the rules are far more beneficial to Gretzky than merely the modern day player. I honestly think the decrease due to modern systems and higher "floor of talent" is negated by rule changes that protect the players. If anything, this season IMO has demonstrated that the crack down on slashing has really opened the game and allowed skill to flourish. These types of rules aren't "little" benefits to Gretzky. They're HUGE benefits to Gretzky. Again, Gretzky doesn't need to shoot at goalies to score. He just needs modern team mates to score. As some other poster already mentioned, even if his point totals are adjusted to the modern era, with that scoring pace, he's still GOAT in points.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Yes. /EndThread.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

it's amazing how humans keep getting smarter and smarter as evidenced by the technology we have today

but athletic ability and skill has some how gotten worse, it peaked in the 80's

it's even worse in baseball, Babe Ruth played 100 years ago those guys would work as roofers during the day and still outplay guys of today

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Yes.

 

[PerpetualTankYear]

it's amazing how humans keep getting smarter and smarter as evidenced by the technology we have today

but athletic ability and skill has some how gotten worse, it peaked in the 80's

it's even worse in baseball, Babe Ruth played 100 years ago those guys would work as roofers during the day and still outplay guys of today

Exactly. World records are smashed at the olympics consistently. Training is better, medicine is better, athletes today would absolutely destroy athletes in the 80's.

If 1987 Gretzky was magically placed in the NHL today, he would be crushed. But if he was born in, say 1994, and got to grow up with the generation currently in the NHL and receive the same training, who knows how good he would be?

 

[Asheville]

Hockey IQ transcends eras.

Gretzky's hockey IQ is unmatched.

Soooooo........

 

[Knotty Moog]

Bergeron would shut him down. Obviously.

 

[Cleatus]

I think he’d still be the best, but not by a crazy margin like how he was in the 80’s. His 92 goal 200+ point season would probably be 60 goals and 120 points in this era for instance.