If Gretzky played in this era, would he still be considered the GOAT?

KirkAlbuquerque

#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Mar 12, 2014
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Yes, he would. But there's so many variables - if Gretzky was born in 1990 he'd have a completely different hockey upbringing, he'd be using different training methods and modern equipment.

But he was so far ahead of his peers , which included a ton a great, hall of fame players, you have to expect that he'd be the best now too. No he wouldn't be scoring 200 points but he'd still be far ahead of everyone else.
 
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Oneiro

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Mar 28, 2013
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I still have not seen any player in the modern era think the game the same way. Crosby is his own animal but even he doesn't Nostradamus the shit out of the game the way Gretzky used to.

Honestly, I think the technical skills and recognition level of the average player has improved in the modern era, but the intellect...not really. Even All Star caliber players make pedestrian reads all the time.

If you gave Jagr or Fedorov a twenty year old's body, they'd wreck this league once again.
 
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King Woodballs

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Sep 25, 2007
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I still have not seen any player in the modern era think the game the same way. Crosby is his own animal but even he doesn't Nostradamus the **** out of the game the way Gretzky used to.

Honestly, I think the technical skills and recognition level of the average player has improved in the modern era, but the intellect...not really. Even All Star caliber players make pedestrian reads all the time.

If you gave Jagr or Fedorov a twenty year old's body, they'd wreck this league once again.

I am pretty sure Jagr has a twenty year old body every night.
 

ITM

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...
Jan 26, 2012
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The difference is in Gretzky's IQ.

Gretzky wasn't as physically gifted as Bobby Orr (who should be a kind of co-consideration here), but he was peerless in reading and understanding the game during the era he played.

While it's rational to state that athletes have improved as a result of scientific advancement with respect to physical training and maintenance and knowledge of the game with systems dissecting strategy and game play to the minute detail, it's irrational to extrapolate that Wayne Gretzky wouldn't have processed this information in a similarly stratified fashion commensurate with his era's dominant performance and translated that synthesis to today's game.

Tom Brady is a subpar athlete in terms of combine numbers, but his mind is peerless at his position, in the modern era.

Wayne Gretzky wasn't a subpar athlete, he wasn't a dominant physical specimen, but the man could skate...Now combine the reality of Tom Brady's modern-day performance and his ability to transcend his peers and apply that to Wayne Gretzky with his hockey IQ, but augment it with everything that's afforded athletes today.

Couple all that with the crack down on obstruction and the direction of skilled hockey and I would wager Gretzky would do the same thing again...He would find what could be optimized and exploit it.

Interesting isn't it, with all Crosby's physical tools, all of Lindros's tools, and Fedorov's and Forsberg's and McDavid's, that the kind of separation Gretzky managed has been approached, but not repeated, and at that, managed by a player who has been constantly puzzled over as to how he did so much with seemingly so little.
 

GordieHowsUrBreath

Nostalgia... STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST
Jun 16, 2016
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Except that is not true. Lebron is arguably the best basketball player of all time, Messi is considered by many to be the best soccer player of all time, Roger Federer is indisputably the best tennis player of all time. Gretzky is just the best hockey player of all time.

it is true around here

people think that hockey peaked 20 years ago and everything has been downhill since, they think mats sundin would be the best player today

most people won't think lebron is the best player no matter what he accomplishes in the future, their mind is already made up
 

Vagrant

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Feb 27, 2002
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one thing that consistently gets overlooked is how much time on ice superstars played in the 80's. star forwards were routinely double shifted and played upwards of 25 minutes a night. most teams now try to limit their star forwards to 20 or less. it may seem somewhat insignificant, but that's a hell of a lot of difference. the game has changed so much that's it's incredibly difficult to expect any player from any era would be able to play 30 minutes at the pace the current iteration of the game is played. that's going to have an adverse influence on point totals. it's part of the reason why team scoring is much more balanced now.
 
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Gabe the Babe

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Apr 24, 2014
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Wasn’t the dude smaller (not shorter) than most nhlers back then and still scoring 50 more puts a season than everyone?

What’s different today? Training? McDavid is a similar build and player. But nobody saw the ice like Gretzky.

I think McDavid has a season in his career where he has 20 more points than the next closest dude.

I think Gretzky could have a season where even in this era he’d have 40 more points. He’s the goat. And what made him so is timeless and eraless.

I never got a chance to watch him play because I’m young. But just clips and statistics show he’s a different breed. Probably the most dominant athlete of all time.
 
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Midnight Judges

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Feb 10, 2010
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Very complicated question tbh. The reason I would say yes is the God-like intangibles he had. He seemed to be able do what was needed every time it was needed (at least when he was at the height of his career).

I think that's overstating it a bit. Gretzky won 4 championships in 19 seasons, 14 of which were peak-ish. He lost 12 playoff series. He also needed 6 other all of famers to win championships.

IMO he would be a 130 point player in today's NHL with a career best of about 58 goals. I think if you adjust for era simply based on goals per game ratios, it comes out somewhere around this.
 

GordieHowsUrBreath

Nostalgia... STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST
Jun 16, 2016
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ROFL, the difference is old people still live in the world and see the changes while young people can only read about the past. Your statement is of course nonsense or my Grandmother would not have a smartphone.

if i got a dime from every old person that didn't tell me the entire world used to be better, i'd have zero dimes
 

BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
15,674
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if i got a dime from every old person that didn't tell me the entire world used to be better, i'd have zero dimes
I'm happy for you, that still does not mean Gretz was not a special player. Believe it or not there have been exceptional people throughout history who have not been surpassed in the last 30 years.
 

Panthera

Registered User
Sep 25, 2017
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No, obviously not. Who considers him a goat now? He's obviously a human being. How many sheer cliff walls has he climbed? Yeah, exactly.
 

McOilers97

Registered User
Jan 10, 2012
6,493
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one thing that consistently gets overlooked is how much time on ice superstars played in the 80's. star forwards were routinely double shifted and played upwards of 25 minutes a night. most teams now try to limit their star forwards to 20 or less. it may seem somewhat insignificant, but that's a hell of a lot of difference. the game has changed so much that's it's incredibly difficult to expect any player from any era would be able to play 30 minutes at the pace the current iteration of the game is played. that's going to have an adverse influence on point totals. it's part of the reason why team scoring is much more balanced now.

I think team scoring is much more balanced now because the disparity between a great player, a good player, an average player and a "poor" player has been steadily declining. Obviously, there is still a large gap between players like Connor McDavid and Mark Letestu for example, but the league had A LOT more "scrubs" in it than it does now, so Gretzky playing extra minutes against the opposition's 3rd pairing d back in the 80's would be comparatively far easier than Crosby/McDavid doing the same today.
 

Mikeshane

Registered User
Jan 15, 2013
6,175
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Yes.

You are exaggerating the difference in eras, Gretzky was a point a game guy at 36 years old in the late 90's.
 

lwvs84

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
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Los Angeles, CA
He'd be the most skilled player in the league, and probably an argument for greatest player ever... but it wouldn't be a "hands down" best player in ever. I think there will be (have been?) better players than Gretzky, or at least in his tier, but no one that's been so good compared to the rest of their peers. I don't think anyone will ever dominate the way Gretzky did. This is the same argument I have made about Jordan in basketball too. They were just guys a generation ahead of their times (though, with Gretzky it might not have been the physical tools like Jordan). I was a little too young to watch Gretzky in his prime, but from what I've seen of him, current players probably would have played him much differently than back then.
 

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