Post-Game Talk: "I know what every players knob looks like" Jets lose 3-2 in OT

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

thought Bogo played much better last night - still would rather see him paired with Clitsome and Toby/Buff get all the Dzone starts

 

[ps241]

Oh, and Jones is very smooth...

And Weber is the best defenseman I've seen this year. Makes Subban look like a 3rd pairing guy defensively and Karlsson looks like a junior player compared to him.

Yea I agree with your post..... Weber is the best defenseman I have seen this year as well by a long shot.

 

[Positive]

An alternative viewpoint is that the Pavelec "discussion" isn't really a discussion any longer. Rather, it seems to have become an exercise in flogging people over the head about how terrible he is, and trying to determine how much blame he's to shoulder for each and every loss.

I'm not even sure what you'd consider a "Pavelec supporter" to be at this point. I've seen very few people say he's even an average NHL netminder, even fewer saying that he's anything resembling good.

The Pavelec debate jumped the shark a long time ago, tbh. Most here agree that he needs to be better.

Yeah there is no doubt about that. We're all aware of his numbers, and the numbers of this team overall under this coach.

We all know the goaltending needs to be better, and the coach needs to be better...it's right there in the numbers and results. So we should spend the majority of the time harping on it right?

No, not really. I mean there's nothing against the forum rules against doing so. I would not call any one here 'trolls', and no rules are being broken...that I can tell.

But just like in real life...conversations are more enjoyable, when they're 'even'. Human interaction is more stimulating when it's varied: positive points, negative points, points in-between.

IMHO, people should try considering how their posting habits and behaviour on forum contributes to this community. I look back over the last two months and think about how my own posting habits have swung towards the negative, and I don't like it. I've become more 'jerkish'. Ultimately, we have very little control over what happens to this team. We do however, have some modicum of control on this board. What we say here, what we add to conversations, is what distinguishes us as being called 'intelligent fans' and the casual guy yelling 'shoot' at the TV when there is no lane open.

There is little joy in joyland right now. We don't need to bury our heads in the sand about the goaltending, but we don't need to harp on it either. At least not in the PGT, where it seems the conversation is all about Pavs, when the game that was lost over this 60 minute frame, wasn't all because of Pavs. That doesn't add any joy. It makes the rest of us even more miserable.

I guess it's cathartic to bring it up, you really dislike Pavs. Probably enjoyable on some level, actually. Whenever you can tell someone 'I told you so', it's always satisfying on some primal level.

But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. What does it contribute? What are you telling us that we don't already know? Why not mix up the conversation? What can be gained, by bringing focus to the negative repeatedly? Why not discuss positives and negatives? Why rehash old points, especially when you know others find it irksome? Why, irk others to the point that they no longer participate in the forums? Is that winning? Is our team better because of it, or our community? Nope.

I'm not saying that we should just flip a switch and go all 'rainbows and sunshine'. Just...try to exercise a little tact and balance in our posting. We can be smarter posters. Things are getting a little misanthropic here. You can either be a John Scott on the forums, or an Andrew Ladd. Or at least try to be something in-between, like a Peluso at least.

Thus ends my little diatribe on human/community relations. My last hopefully...

 

[Huffer]

Have to be at least a little happy with the way the team has played in the last two.

IMO, they carried the play in both for the most part (almost entirely against WASH), but only came away with 2 points out of 4. Very easy to see the Jets getting 3 or 4 points in the last two games with the way they played. Not saying they played great, or close to a full 60 minutes. But it's easy for me to see that they deserved a better fate in both.

Really like seeing physical Buff. He tried to do a lot last night and was working for the most part. I think it would be better overall to keep some of that in check, but I don't think there was much in the way of "loose" Buff to criticize. Bad break on the OT goal, probably should have just whacked it out of the zone, but whatever.

Bogo made a bad read on the 1st goal, but was pretty solid overall I thought. Enstrom is probably playing the best he has as a Jet IMO. Clitsome is getting better from his rough start. Maybe average last night. Postma seems to be getting better from his start as well.

I think I'm changing my mind on Stuart though. I've seen him in the past as one of those "glue" guys, that plays tough D, and a guy we needed for his "sandpaper". Early last night I watched him just fire pucks out of our zone to no one. It's like he's allergic to keeping possession, and treats the puck like a hot potato. Conversely, Bogo took the puck one time, noticed that the team was going on a change, and went behind the net so that the team could keep possession.

Really liked the forecheck and pressure in the first 10 minutes from our forwards. Hopefully we can keep that up and start to do it for a full game. Going to need some more scoring though from Jokinin, Scheifele, Seto, Frolik going forward. And at least a little something from the Tangradi's, Wright's, Slater's and Halischuk's to have a chance.

Hopefully they keep this effort up. Dallas schooled us last time, so hopefully the team is ready to give them a better game.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Yeah there is no doubt about that. We're all aware of his numbers, and the numbers of this team overall under this coach.

We all know the goaltending needs to be better, and the coach needs to be better...it's right there in the numbers and results. So we should spend the majority of the time harping on it right?

No, not really. I mean there's nothing against the forum rules against doing so. I would not call any one here 'trolls', and no rules are being broken...that I can tell.

But just like in real life...conversations are more enjoyable, when they're 'even'. Human interaction is more stimulating when it's varied: positive points, negative points, points in-between.

IMHO, people should try considering how their posting habits and behaviour on forum contributes to this community. I look back over the last two months and think about how my own posting habits have swung towards the negative, and I don't like it. I've become more 'jerkish'. Ultimately, we have very little control over what happens to this team. We do however, have some modicum of control on this board. What we say here, what we add to conversations, is what distinguishes us as being called 'intelligent fans' and the casual guy yelling 'shoot' at the TV when there is no lane open.

There is little joy in joyland right now. We don't need to bury our heads in the sand about the goaltending, but we don't need to harp on it either. At least not in the PGT, where it seems the conversation is all about Pavs, when the game that was lost over this 60 minute frame, wasn't all because of Pavs. That doesn't add any joy. It makes the rest of us even more miserable.

I guess it's cathartic to bring it up, you really dislike Pavs. Probably enjoyable on some level, actually. Whenever you can tell someone 'I told you so', it's always satisfying on some primal level.

But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. What does it contribute? What are you telling us that we don't already know? Why not mix up the conversation? What can be gained, by bringing focus to the negative repeatedly? Why not discuss positives and negatives? Why rehash old points, especially when you know others find it irksome? Why, irk others to the point that they no longer participate in the forums? Is that winning? Is our team better because of it, or or community? Nope.

I'm not saying that we should just flip a switch and go all 'rainbows and sunshine'. Just...try to exercise a little tact and balance in our posting. We can be smarter posters. Things are getting a little misanthropic here. You can either be a John Scott on the forums, or an Andrew Ladd. Or at least try to be something in-between, like a Peluso at least.

Thus ends my little diatribe on human/community relations. My last hopefully...

Great post Wings.

 

[Huffer]

thought Bogo played much better last night - still would rather see him paired with Clitsome and Toby/Buff get all the Dzone starts

Not saying that's a bad idea as we all know how good Enstrom and Buff are together, but I've kind of liked Bogo and Enstrom in this small sample size.

Enstrom is a good puck mover, so Bogo can concentrate on separating guys from the puck and getting pucks to Enstrom.

Would like to see more Bogo and Enstrom myself just to get a larger sample size.

 

[garret9]

Not saying that's a bad idea as we all know how good Enstrom and Buff are together, but I've kind of liked Bogo and Enstrom in this small sample size.

Enstrom is a good puck mover, so Bogo can concentrate on separating guys from the puck and getting pucks to Enstrom.

Would like to see more Bogo and Enstrom myself just to get a larger sample size.

Thus far the TOI is nearly even with the two when I adjusted for zone starts and score...

46 mins with Buff at 54.3% Corsi% (or +8 Corsi)

41 mins with Bogo at 53.9% Corsi% (or +6 Corsi)


(in case someone wants to know, the raw numbers without adjusting is 54.3% with Byfuglien for 109 minutes and 50.0% with Bogosian for 67 minutes)

 

[Huffer]

Thus far the TOI is nearly even with the two when I adjusted for zone starts and score...

46 mins with Buff at 54.3% Corsi% (or +8 Corsi)

41 mins with Bogo at 53.9% Corsi% (or +6 Corsi)


(in case someone wants to know, the raw numbers without adjusting is 54.3% with Byfuglien for 109 minutes and 50.0% with Bogosian for 67 minutes)

Interesting. Guessing, my hypothesis is that the team is better overall with the Enstrom / Bogo and Buff / Clitsome pairings, with the reasoning that Enstrom with either Buff and Bogo seems to be somewhat close, but I would guess that Buff and Clitsome is better than Bogo and Clitsome?

 

[garret9]

Interesting. Guessing, my hypothesis is that the team is better overall with the Enstrom / Bogo and Buff / Clitsome pairings, with the reasoning that Enstrom with either Buff and Bogo seems to be somewhat close, but I would guess that Buff and Clitsome is better than Bogo and Clitsome?

Clitsome and Bogosian have barely seen eachother in their career

 

[peg]

Interesting. Guessing, my hypothesis is that the team is better overall with the Enstrom / Bogo and Buff / Clitsome pairings, with the reasoning that Enstrom with either Buff and Bogo seems to be somewhat close, but I would guess that Buff and Clitsome is better than Bogo and Clitsome?

Clitsome was interviewed recently and said that Buff is constantly barking instructions and that Buff always wants the puck. That might make it much easier for Clits who unfortunately has been subject to a fair number of brain cramps this year when clearing the zone. Having Buff as an outlet and getting in position for a pass might really help cut down Clitsome's mistakes. By the way, I really like Clitsome and find that the more he plays, the better he gets.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Again giveaways and takeaways are the most RIDICULOUS stats collected by NHL.com. They are random and make no sense. Worst thing ever, NEVER use them. Beyond useless. Peluso could not hang to the puck to save his life to start the year, last year or pre-season. He has been improving last couple of games.

If you refused to see the turnovers which is why he wasn't playing, that's your fault. He was, which is why Noel wasn't playing him. Watching from a coaching perspective it was obvious (which is WAAAAY different than a fan's perspective as I am learning in the past two years coaching).

Congratulations your constantly call outs brought me out. I have been trying to avoid your and other call outs on Peluso since I was done talking about him. He is improving though. Still have my doubts if he will stick, but he has been a reasonable call up type option right now and going forward. We'll see if he builds on that. Still been lots of money and resources expended on him so far, that could have went to Cormier, Machacek, etc, who knows what they could have become with that ridiculous patience. But I will hold judgement until we can see if Peluso can play. Right now that patience looks alright. We'll see.

That being said, here is my recap of the game (on Arctic Ice Hockey, I'm the author). Note #2 on my list. It based on much more than the goal, overall he was not turning the puck over, making smarter decisions, showing more confidence, getting quicker on the forecheck, etc.

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/10/25/5026632/jets-fall-3-2-in-ot-to-predators#comments

A couple things:

1. Quite frankly, you wouldn't have been "called out" on here if you wrote your mea culpa on Peluso over here on HF (instead of a blog). On here, you spent countless posts arguing that Peluso was an abomination of a hockey player. Credit where its due, you seem willing to change your views on him, but don't be surprised when you get asked about your previous assertions at the place that you were making them.

2. I wasn't actually defending the NHL stat, I know its a ludicrous number. My point was that you and another poster had Peluso giving the puck away 5-6 times per game, while everyone else had 0 and the NHL statistician had zero. Its not just Peluso, you had the same over-the-top criticism of Derek Meech last year that nobody else was seeing. I think it would be a mistake to assume that you are watching the game like a coach and people who don't agree with you aren't seeing the finer points of the game. I'd be happy to discuss or break down any play, system or player from a coaching perspective. Its possible that we "refused" to see what you see, but there are other possibilities too, one being your own confirmation bias. Another is that perhaps you're overvaluing the impact of fringe 4th liners and AHL callups and their effects on the success of team.

 

[Huffer]

Clitsome and Bogosian have barely seen eachother in their career

Agreed. That's why I'm saying it's a hypothesis.

I "think" Buff and Clitsome is better than Bogo and Clitsome. So if Enstrom is doing similar (in a small sample for sure) with Bogo and Buff, I'd rather keep Enstrom and Bogo together as my hypothesis is that it's better overall.

I guess we'd need to see a decent amount of minutes with Bogo and Clitsome together to be able to compare, but at this point I'm very comfortable leaving it in a "hypothesis" state.

 

[White Out 403*]

Another ignorant post. People don't want to talk about it 24/7 like some obsessed people because there are other things to talk about and it's . All you have to do is look at it from a different perspective and you would realize that.

People are so caught up on ONE thing, they ignore everything else. Like the fact that someone like you seems to ignore the fact that we played way too loose late in the Nashville game and it was only a matter of time before a puck went in, whereas Nashville had things locked down pretty good.

But because more then 2 goals went in, regardless how they did go in, people want to do nothing but talk about Pavs. And it's starting to become borderline psychotic.

If something else of more context was brought to the situation, people wouldn't jump to conclusions about certain opinions, yet none is brought, so the same stuff is said, over and over and over and over.

It's also hard to take certain opinions serious when blame is only thrown at one player, which is a very ignorant way to go. Last I checked, it's a team game, yet we want to blame the same guy every game?? Like I said...

You know it's interesting because I didn't once blame this game on Pavs. At all. I simply stated he was the 2nd best goaltender in a game, again. Or would you make the hillarious effort to convince me and others he out played Hutton in that game? Oh and ya maybe we played loose and Nashville had things locked down, but we won the number of chances battle so I'll take that any game.

 

[hockeyarena]

Clitsome should be in the AHL. Along with James Wright, Olli, Tangradi, Thorburn, Postma, etc. etc. Keep stocking those cupboards Chevy, that's our only hope. Oh and after having Olli on the ice for the full 2 minutes of that powerplay with 3:30 left in the 3rd, Noel can go too. Sorry for the negativity, You can only stay positive for so long.

 

[Positive]

Clitsome should be in the AHL. Along with James Wright, Olli, Tangradi, Thorburn, Postma, etc. etc. Keep stocking those cupboards Chevy, that's our only hope. Oh and after having Olli on the ice for the full 2 minutes of that powerplay with 3:30 left in the 3rd, Noel can go too. Sorry for the negativity, You can only stay positive for so long.

Clitsome was fine last night IMHO.

Olli is having a decent start. On pace for 45 pts or so, good in shootouts, and nice setup on the Peluso goal last night.

And to correct some details, the powerplay actually started with 2:47 remaining in the 3rd period. Olli had a shift during that powerplay, lasting 1:08.

 

[EpicGingy]

Clitsome was fine last night IMHO.

Olli is having a decent start. On pace for 45 pts or so, good in shootouts, and nice setup on the Peluso goal last night.

I think people are just trying to see the Jokinen from laat year all over again. Is he overpayed? Unfortanutely yes, but he's looked pretty decent in that 3rd line center role IMHO.

 

[JustBeCool]

So remember when we thought the jets have forward depth now? Im starting to think otherwise. The offseason additions, frolik and seto, havent really contributed offensively. And where is ladd? The top two lines have been weak.

 

[Positive]

I think people are just trying to see the Jokinen from laat year all over again. Is he overpayed? Unfortanutely yes, but he's looked pretty decent in that 2nd line center role IMHO.

Yup, agreed, he is overpaid. Though I like him as 3rd C.

The point I was sort of getting to, is that PGT's should be used to criticize performance in regards to the game just played. Sure these two guys laid some stinkers in the past, but that didn't happen last game. It just kind of came out of left field as a Chevy shot/last season shot.

 

[Positive]

So remember when we thought the jets have forward depth now? Im starting to think otherwise. The offseason additions, frolik and seto, havent really contributed offensively. And where is ladd? The top two lines have been weak.

I'm not disappointed in Frolik. 6 points in 11 games, which is more than I expected. Again, that line looked good on the Peluso goal. He had 10 pts in 45 games with the Hawks last year, and 15 pts in 63 games the year before (and a -10).

Ladd had 3 assists on Tuesday, and another helper yesterday.

Little is looking good, 8 pts in 11 with 5g...could net 25+ goals this year. Was kept off the scoresheet yesterday though.

 

[surixon]

So remember when we thought the jets have forward depth now? Im starting to think otherwise. The offseason additions, frolik and seto, havent really contributed offensively. And where is ladd? The top two lines have been weak.

Both Seto and Frolik are on pace for 40 or more points as is Jokinin. The secondary scoring hasn't been an issue at all. Ladd is on pace for around 60 points which is areasonable total for him. With Wheeler waking up and Scheifele looking better I'm not all that concerned about team offense.

The biggest tging we need to improve is the amount of goals we give up.

 

[tbcwpg]

I think people are just trying to see the Jokinen from laat year all over again. Is he overpayed? Unfortanutely yes, but he's looked pretty decent in that 2nd line center role IMHO.

Yeah he makes too much for what he does, but what he is doing, he's doing pretty well. He hasn't looked bad to me this year, and certainly hasn't held back any of his wingers like he did last season.

 

[Jet]

Weber was pretty great to watch last night. If Bogosian can become more like Shea I would be so delighted, he certainly has the tools to do it. I guess time will tell if he has the mental fortitude.

Peluso did a couple of things offensively that were pretty surprising last night. He was extremely involved in the goal he scored including starting it off by being the one who poked it out of our zone. He did something else in the game that really surprised and impressed me. We were running around in our zone. He got the puck and instead of blindly firing it up the boards, he stopped, did a half spin, a couple of stickhandles and took control of the puck and moved it out of our zone. To me that showed a higher level of ability than just a 4th liner. I think that he could be a project that could become a big 3rd line winger that can grind it out and put up some points for the team. Was really impressed with him, he seems to be taking his opportunity and running with it.

 

[BigZ65]

Our forwards haven't had much of a chance to settle in with all the shuffling. They've been fine in the last handful of games with Ladd and Little, Kane and Schiefele being the top 2 line duos with the RW's moving around a bit.

 

[peg]

I have lots of good takeaways from last night and the game before. If we played the way we played against Washington we would beat them 4 out of 5 times. Same with the way we played last night against Nashville. Unfortunately we witnessed the 1 out of 5's where we didn't win. Stuff happens. If we were 6 and 3 instead of 4 and 5 going into last night I don't think anyone would have been overly upset about the point that got away.

I REALLY like Peluso's game. Rare combination of size, speed, intimidation, and now we see some soft hands to boot. Hope he can play like this all year. I actually can't think of any forward that stood out in a bad way other than perhaps Tangradi who started well but then seemed to lose his game as the game went on. Love Wright's energy. Becoming more of a fan each game.

I REALLY liked Bogo's, Buff's and Enstrom's games. Best I have seen Bogo all year. Clitsome did a whole lot of good things and a fair bit of not so good. The trend however is in the right direction.

I just wish we could have a bit more puck luck. It seems when we do have a brain cramp, way too frequently the puck ends up on an opponent's stick and directed at our net. Gotta somehow eliminate the brain cramps.

 

[JustBeCool]

I'm not disappointed in Frolik. 6 points in 11 games, which is more than I expected. Again, that line looked good on the Peluso goal. He had 10 pts in 45 games with the Hawks last year, and 15 pts in 63 games the year before (and a -10).

Ladd had 3 assists on Tuesday, and another helper yesterday.

Little is looking good, 8 pts in 11 with 5g...could net 25+ goals this year. Was kept off the scoresheet yesterday though.

Frolik has been okay I guess; Other than the 2 goal game in the first game of the season, he has 4 pts in 10 games.
Seto is the most disappointing; after his 3 pt night in the home opener, he has only 2 pts in 9 games (no wonder he got scratched). As for Ladd, I guess I expected more from him due to his production in the past but looking at his stats, he is doing alright. I definitely agree that little has been good.

The line juggling has to stop at some piont. Noel can't expect to get some chemistry going if he constantly juggles the lines each game.