GDT: I forgot the GDT, so here's a late one

[Blueline Bomber]

It's Williams HoF Day!

Click to read more...

 

[gooseygoose]

Lovely speech from Williams. Letterman jackets kinda mid. Canes were Bespankéd

 

[chaz4hockey]

Not a pretty picture:

 

[Joe McGrath]

That's... Sigh

Not a great game from most of the team. But at what point do we start to really worry about the 2C spot? KK has been pretty bad this year

That’s the bitch of having the SAT line. KK can’t carry Bunting and Fast/Noesen to being an actual 2nd line.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

That’s the bitch of having the SAT line. KK can’t carry Bunting and Fast/Noesen to being an actual 2nd line.

And when the SAT line does f***all in a game, we get results like this one.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Weird game. It was essentially a 50/50 game for most of it. We played poorly at the start of the 3rd for sure, but LA also made some bang bang passes and capitalized hugely on their scant scoring chances. Neither team looked that much better for long stretches. Raanta was fine. He didn't look great, but no goalie is saving most of those shots against. The D wasn't atrocious, but they were a step slow.

The biggest takeaway I had was LA neutralized our forecheck better than any team I've seen this year. Our forecheck didn't do shit all game. They moved the puck out quickly and caught us pressing several times. On the flip side, LA didn't forecheck us *at all*. They calmly waited all 5 men back in the neutral zone while we took our sweet time getting ready. It was remarkably different from most teams I've seen play against us.

 

[The Jerk Store]

We were due for a loss at some point anyway.

 

[bleedgreen]

That’s the bitch of having the SAT line. KK can’t carry Bunting and Fast/Noesen to being an actual 2nd line.

When Necas plays on that line he does the driving. When he’s not…..no one does. I don’t see KK as someone who really drives play much. When we have Fast/Noesen with no Necas on the second line that’s not a very offensive line. Bunting is the only guy I’d say is a top six.

 

[chaz4hockey]

When Necas plays on that line he does the driving. When he’s not…..no one does. I don’t see KK as someone who really drives play much. When we have Fast/Noesen with no Necas on the second line that’s not a very offensive line. Bunting is the only guy I’d say is a top six.

So.....do you just live with KK's lack of productivity

&
wait for Staal to retire and move KK into a designated checking line role then

or recognizing that this a SC window

do you move him (is he even playing up to his cost controlled contract right now) for a C that can drive play & also find a forward to play alongside Necas for a more productive line?

Re: Bunting--he has flashes of good play and certainly has been productive but I think 5 on 5 he just isn't physical enough for a decent playoff run. I guess I'm saying I'm not a fan of his play.

I'd add, a SC cup run needs a good/hot goalie. Since I presume Freddie is not coming back, the Borg needs to find someone.

 

[MinJaBen]

When Necas plays on that line he does the driving. When he’s not…..no one does. I don’t see KK as someone who really drives play much. When we have Fast/Noesen with no Necas on the second line that’s not a very offensive line. Bunting is the only guy I’d say is a top six.

He may be the only one that is middle six.

 

[Svechhammer]

When Necas plays on that line he does the driving. When he’s not…..no one does. I don’t see KK as someone who really drives play much. When we have Fast/Noesen with no Necas on the second line that’s not a very offensive line. Bunting is the only guy I’d say is a top six.

Yes he drives play, but so often he's driving it right into the heart of the opposing defense leading to a bad blue line or neutral zone turnover. As good as he can be offensively, he has a lack of creativity that makes him much easier to defend and neutralize than he should be.

 

[Chrispy]

The other thing that struck me watching yesterday was that one reason we focus so much on Jordan's finishing ability is the sheer volume of HD chances his line creates and he gets in particular. That line seems to always end up with a chance for Jordan deep in the slot or a tip chance like yesterday that barely misses connecting.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

If Bunting isn't going to play with Aho, his fit on the roster comes into question. Aho+Jarvis and Svechnikov+Necas is the logical path because of balance. Kotkaniemi will play with the latter by default. I was hoping to see Bunting with the former, but just ~20% of his 5v5 ice time has been with Aho thus far.

Is that a function of Teravainen getting off to a hot start and forcing Top 6 ice time or are the coaches not seeing with Bunting on the top line?

The trade speculation makes sense to me in that way, even if he's producing. The forward lineup is 12 deep. There's no logical scratch up front. Noesen is playing well. Fast and Martinook are key role players. An upgrade pushes someone out. For Bunting, Noesen can provide similar value in that spot on the PP.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yes he drives play, but so often he's driving it right into the heart of the opposing defense leading to a bad blue line or neutral zone turnover. As good as he can be offensively, he has a lack of creativity that makes him much easier to defend and neutralize than he should be.

I can’t say I agree, not to the extent you go to anyways. To me his biggest issue is puck protection. He shows you the puck. That’s why Jarvis came on as a rookie and bumped Necas down for awhile. Jarvis shows you his back. Even as a rookie he made a point to not expose the puck unless he has no choice and usually by then he’s moving it or shooting it. It was impressive to hear him say he worked on that this summer after watching Aho do it, Jarvis was already very good at it.

Necas will drive at you, show you the puck then try to dangle it away like a young player would. When he’s on he’s good enough to pull it off a bit, when he’s lacking confidence he gives it away too much. If he has someone attacking with him who has a creative offensive mind he plays off them very well. When he’s with anyone outside of SAT members he doesn’t have anyone reading his play so he holds a bit longer and loses it. He’s improved at this over the years but he’s still guilty of it and when he’s playing with the 4-12 guys and things aren’t clicking his choices get noticed a lot more.

I personally don’t care. His mistakes rarely end up in our net. He doesn’t turn it over very much anywhere outside of the offensive zone with pretty much everyone else behind him still to recover. He’s deadly 3v3. He’s clutch too. He doesn’t shrink late in games….he steps up. That’s character. We want that. Our coach responds to that sort of thing so the guy plays a lot when we need offense. I think we miss him when he’s out, and his flaws will make him more affordable.

We don’t have any perfect players, we’re still a collection of misfit toys and we’re just trying to find the right pieces - and there’s no reason Necas wouldn’t be one. I would replace TT with a more straight line player before Necas, and we likely are because of UFA.

I’d also target a better 2C at this point. I like KK, but he’s miscast imo and I know I probably say it too much. It’s fine for the regular season and maybe his increased strength on his skates will play well in the playoffs. Maybe he’ll get hot and start burying pucks around the net because he has the strength to win those battles better than the past. If we fall short of offense in the playoffs again, that’s the first place I’d be looking to improve.

 

[bleedgreen]

So.....do you just live with KK's lack of productivity

&
wait for Staal to retire and move KK into a designated checking line role then

or recognizing that this a SC window

do you move him (is he even playing up to his cost controlled contract right now) for a C that can drive play & also find a forward to play alongside Necas for a more productive line?

Re: Bunting--he has flashes of good play and certainly has been productive but I think 5 on 5 he just isn't physical enough for a decent playoff run. I guess I'm saying I'm not a fan of his play.

I'd add, a SC cup run needs a good/hot goalie. Since I presume Freddie is not coming back, the Borg needs to find someone.

Oh I’d make the changes now to maximize this window that appears to be ending, and I would’ve done that a couple of years ago. Now I would be finding the 2C, letting Staal/KK fight for 3C vs 4C and move Drury to wing until injuries move him back to center. Drury or KK would maybe have to be in the trade for the 2C.

I also would’ve not been so us about the goalies. I wasn’t for having two oft injured vets and maybe would’ve committed to something felt longer term. I think they have to be considering that right now heading down the stretch. It would almost help to have Anderson just be done for the year so we could face that now. We may know that right now and are just trying to not look desperate in negotiations with the prices so high.

 

[AD Skinner]

I’ve been saying it this whole time, but if we see Andersen again that’s a pleasant surprise and nothing more. The Borg has got to operate on the assumption that he is done

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

KK has been unlucky this year offensively.

The what if game is kinda unfair but we can play. I circle back to a post i made a while ago about this. Who have we missed on in the center or goalie realm since DW took over?

Keeping trocheck. This may be it. Although trocheck makes some questionable plays in the playoffs and did suffer more ref whistles here than in NY.

Eichel? Would have making Necas available put us over the top? I doubt it as tuch was a better option than we could offer.

The center market has been bare for a while. There have been some higher priced guys who have moved but aren’t worth their deals and would hurt our cap issues more.

Maybe we could reach and say the management didn’t have the foresight to consider jared McCann a center and missing on getting him from Toronto for very little and exposing Foegele in the expansion draft.

Goalies: not offering Markstrom an extra year and not offering Ullmark. Ullmark looked a complete bust first year in Boston and has been mediocre in the playoffs. Markstrom hasn’t been good either in the playoffs.

 

[Sigurd]

We are back to everyone standing around on the PP

Yeah, our powerplay was so bad yesterday.

One of the main factors for our loss IMO.

That’s the bitch of having the SAT line. KK can’t carry Bunting and Fast/Noesen to being an actual 2nd line.

Even when Necas returns from his injury, is Necas/KK/Bunting really gonna be enough for the playoffs?

KK is back to being his lackluster self as a 2C (for a while now), and Necas might be another one of our star forwards that under-performs in the playoffs like he has in the past.

At this point, I'd prefer we acquire a bonfide 2C since Svech and Aho have overall been doing well together, and ignore getting a 1st line winger for a 2C. But, that seems unlikely. We'd probably go for a top 6 winger. Either way position wise, we need all the help we can get if we want to finally win the Stanley Cup again.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

We can speculate that we're "in a closing window" all day, but the Borg clearly does not believe that and does not do business that way.

Aho is 26 and probably has 8-10 good years left. Svech is 23 and probably has 10-12 good years left. That's the only true "core" and the Borg clearly thinks they'll be able to manage the roster around them.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

I can’t say I agree, not to the extent you go to anyways. To me his biggest issue is puck protection. He shows you the puck. That’s why Jarvis came on as a rookie and bumped Necas down for awhile. Jarvis shows you his back. Even as a rookie he made a point to not expose the puck unless he has no choice and usually by then he’s moving it or shooting it. It was impressive to hear him say he worked on that this summer after watching Aho do it, Jarvis was already very good at it.

Necas will drive at you, show you the puck then try to dangle it away like a young player would. When he’s on he’s good enough to pull it off a bit, when he’s lacking confidence he gives it away too much. If he has someone attacking with him who has a creative offensive mind he plays off them very well. When he’s with anyone outside of SAT members he doesn’t have anyone reading his play so he holds a bit longer and loses it. He’s improved at this over the years but he’s still guilty of it and when he’s playing with the 4-12 guys and things aren’t clicking his choices get noticed a lot more.

I personally don’t care. His mistakes rarely end up in our net. He doesn’t turn it over very much anywhere outside of the offensive zone with pretty much everyone else behind him still to recover. He’s deadly 3v3. He’s clutch too. He doesn’t shrink late in games….he steps up. That’s character. We want that. Our coach responds to that sort of thing so the guy plays a lot when we need offense. I think we miss him when he’s out, and his flaws will make him more affordable.

We don’t have any perfect players, we’re still a collection of misfit toys and we’re just trying to find the right pieces - and there’s no reason Necas wouldn’t be one. I would replace TT with a more straight line player before Necas, and we likely are because of UFA.

I’d also target a better 2C at this point. I like KK, but he’s miscast imo and I know I probably say it too much. It’s fine for the regular season and maybe his increased strength on his skates will play well in the playoffs. Maybe he’ll get hot and start burying pucks around the net because he has the strength to win those battles better than the past. If we fall short of offense in the playoffs again, that’s the first place I’d be looking to improve.

Completely agree on Necas and I'll add that I truly believe he's a player who will eventually break out and take that next step. He is still young and has plenty of development ahead of him. His intangible speed and skating just gives him such a massive upside and makes him a unique player. Hopefully it's here that he breaks out and not somewhere else.

 

[cptjeff]

Completely agree on Necas and I'll add that I truly believe he's a player who will eventually break out and take that next step. He is still young and has plenty of development ahead of him. His intangible speed and skating just gives him such a massive upside and makes him a unique player. Hopefully it's here that he breaks out and not somewhere else.

He's 25. That's no longer young in sports terms. Draft+7 year. Lindholm, the last insanely late bloomer to actually break out we've dealt with, turned into an approximately PPG player in his D+6 year.

Necas needs to figure things out yesterday, not some indefinite time in the future. He's been a full time NHLer for 5 years now, at the point when most forwards are established veterans in their prime. At what point do you admit that he's just a guy with all the tools but no toolbox? When he loses a step and and totally bombs out of the NHL at 32? Or will he still be a young guy who can still figure it out?

We think of him as a young guy because he still plays like a rookie and makes rookie mistakes. But that is not a point in his favor.

 

[bleedgreen]

KK has been unlucky this year offensively.

The what if game is kinda unfair but we can play. I circle back to a post i made a while ago about this. Who have we missed on in the center or goalie realm since DW took over?

Keeping trocheck. This may be it. Although trocheck makes some questionable plays in the playoffs and did suffer more ref whistles here than in NY.

Eichel? Would have making Necas available put us over the top? I doubt it as tuch was a better option than we could offer.

The center market has been bare for a while. There have been some higher priced guys who have moved but aren’t worth their deals and would hurt our cap issues more.

Maybe we could reach and say the management didn’t have the foresight to consider jared McCann a center and missing on getting him from Toronto for very little and exposing Foegele in the expansion draft.

Goalies: not offering Markstrom an extra year and not offering Ullmark. Ullmark looked a complete bust first year in Boston and has been mediocre in the playoffs. Markstrom hasn’t been good either in the playoffs.

It was always about committing to the Trocheck contract or not. If we let him go can we replace m him, which seemed unlikely with the market there. We took a swing that got us a decent player overall but not the guy for the role. We have taken a step back of debatable size because of that, and having a righty who wins most of his draws and also plays a top six role so he can be out there at any key moments of any game I feel was an aspect that was undervalued.

We can speculate that we're "in a closing window" all day, but the Borg clearly does not believe that and does not do business that way.

Aho is 26 and probably has 8-10 good years left. Svech is 23 and probably has 10-12 good years left. That's the only true "core" and the Borg clearly thinks they'll be able to manage the roster around them.

Well one window can close and another can open. I don’t take for granted that the next one will be better, but of course it might. To me this one has always been about Aho/Slavin/Pesce core. We built a great defense around it and we’ve been able pivot when we have to. We have no one on defense signed past next season. That’s opportunity for potentially big change. The team will likely feel much different, for better or worse. When I’m speaking of windows that’s all I mean.

I don’t think the world is ending if this “window” passes. I agree that we have a young group that’ll be here for awhile that if things go right we’ll keep building around.

He's 25. That's no longer young in sports terms. Draft+7 year. Lindholm, the last insanely late bloomer to actually break out we've dealt with, turned into a PPG player in his D+6 year.

Necas needs to figure things out yesterday, not some indefinite time in the future. He's been a full time NHLer for 5 years now, at the point when most forwards are established veterans in their prime. At what point do you admit that he's just a guy with all the tools but no toolbox? When he loses a step and and totally bombs out of the NHL at 32? Or will he still be a young guy who can still figure it out?

Well maybe he’s a good player right now. He’s good enough to be one of our top scorers despite his flaws.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

He's 25. That's no longer young in sports terms. Draft+7 year. Lindholm, the last insanely late bloomer to actually break out we've dealt with, turned into an approximately PPG player in his D+6 year.

Necas needs to figure things out yesterday, not some indefinite time in the future. He's been a full time NHLer for 5 years now, at the point when most forwards are established veterans in their prime. At what point do you admit that he's just a guy with all the tools but no toolbox? When he loses a step and and totally bombs out of the NHL at 32? Or will he still be a young guy who can still figure it out?

We think of him as a young guy because he still plays like a rookie and makes rookie mistakes. But that is not a point in his favor.

Plenty of NHLers take a significant step forward after 25. And it's not like he's been a 40 point guy his whole career. He led the team in scoring with 71 and paced for 63 a couple years before that. And despite a "down year" this year he's pacing for over 50 points. I think of him as a young guy because he is a young guy.

 

[MinJaBen]

Who have we missed on in the center or goalie realm since DW took over?

Keeping trocheck. This may be it.

Lindholm. I don’t think we trade him away if there was any sense he would turn into what he turned into. We missed on him.

 

[The Jerk Store]

Lindholm. I don’t think we trade him away if there was any sense he would turn into what he turned into. We missed on him.

To be fair, he plateaued in the 40-45 point range. I don't think he would have hit his ppg stride here with our team as constructed.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Lindholm. I don’t think we trade him away if there was any sense he would turn into what he turned into. We missed on him.

Eh. Im not that big on lindholm. He has a high point total because of the wingers he played with. His defensive numbers looked better because his line owned the puck. It is a little funny that he was nothing more than a name thrown in there until he played with Tkachuk and JG. He fell to 10th last year and likely falls lower again this year, unsurprisingly as his point totals fall.