Hypothetical... Keep hacking at Myers.

[Invictus12]

Wings could go after Buff, but I think the Myers ship sailed. Peg has no reason to deal him. As stated above, he and Trouba are the backbone of their D for years to come. Plus Myers is on a really solid deal right now. Wings could afford Buff too if they wanted to, and he signed for around 7 mil. Especially if they could get Peg to take back a bit of salary. Like say Kindl or Smith+Pulu+Marchenko+1st or something.

Yeah I do realize that. They traded for him and obviously there is a reason for that so, it's unlikely they will just trade him away unless the deal is pretty much too good to be true. His deal is actually one of the reason I would really like him on the team. I mean, I would love Phaneuf just as much and his cap hit isn't something I'd mind, but that term…. Ugh.

Andersson is a non-factor with cap things. He will be cheap ~1M player for his whole career, easy be burned on the waiver wire, but could be valuable kept as 13th-14th guy. As the next "cleary" everybody hates, but as a guy who will help the team more than his contract worth.

But Helm and Abdelkader are gonna get UFA raises and will be the main problem, if we add another big contract.

Quincey gone will help obviously and Richards gone too. But DeKeyser will need a raise and Sheahan/Pulkkinen/Mrazek too.

If the cap is same at 2016-17 (71.4M)

1. Dats 7.5M
2. Zeta 6.1M
3. Gus 4.75M
(Mule 3.95M) don't count him on this case, expect to be LTIR.
(Richards 3.0M) - GONE
4. Tatar 2.75M
(Helm 2.125M) - GONE
(Abdelkader 1.8M) - GONE
(Miller 1.35M) - GONE
5. Sheahan 2.45M (from 950k) ~1.5M raise
6. Pulkkinen 2.0M (Mike Hoffman money) (from 735k) ~1.3M raise
7. Larkin 925k ELC
8. Jurco 900k
9. Ferraro 900k (extended)
10. Andersson 900k (extended)
11. Glendening 628k
12. XXX = 950k
13. YYY = 950k
14. ZZZ = 950k
+ Richards bonus 750k (reached conference finals, of course )

Total:
33.4M

Sheahan - Zeta - Nyquist
Jurco - Datsyuk - Tatar
XXX - Larkin - Pulkkinen
Andersson - Glendening - Ferraro
(YYY, ZZZ)
Franzen LTIR


1. Byfuglien 6.0M
2. Green 6.0M
3. Kronwall 4.75M
4. DeKeyser 4.5M (from 2.187M) ~2.3M raise (to those David Savard numbers)
5. Ericsson 4.25M
(Quincey 4.25M) - GONE
6. Smith 2.75M
7. Kindl 2.4M
Ouellet?
Marchenko?

Defencemen Total 31.2M

Howard 5.2M
Mrazek 2.2M (from 737k) ~1.5M raise (compared Mrazek to Robin Lehner 2.2M contract)

Goalies Total 7.4M

23-man roster total:
71.5M (100k over the current cap)

MMmmmm, we would be there with long teeth. But something has to be done for that cap-hell defence. There's no room for Ouellet or Marchenko. We can make one 950k hole by waiving Kindl, but another one has to be Smith traded or something like that. Ericsson has NTC.

I really think trade at the deadline would work better, because Winnipeg could eat some critical 2016-17 millions from our cap. Adding Byfuglien from free agency would be technically "free", but it forces us to quite a cap hell. It kind of kills the re-signing of Abdelkader so adding Buff we would lose Abdelkader for sure.

You really did your leg-work one this one. Also pretty much killed any assertion of getting someone like Buff come next summer… Going by this, Buff would pretty much have to really want to be here in order for us to afford him. I would think someone would offer him more than 6 mil per year???

Why would the 'peg want to trade Myers away?

and, more importantly, why would the 'peg want to trade Myers away for prospects? They've got a crazy prospect pool as it is. Best in the league, depending on who you ask. They want to win now. If anything, they want to trade prospects for proven talent.

Anyone you'd be willing to give up from our roster that you'd think Winnipeg would reasonably ask from us in an exchange?

I mean a guy like Tatar, Nyquist?...

Yeah no thank you, It's not a gimme that we could afford to resign Buff. We've got around $18.5 million to spend next year on 10 RFAs/UFAs if the cap stays the same. And we've got to resign DeKeyser, Sheahan, Mrazek possibly Abdelkader and Pulkkinen DeKeyser should get a nice raise. Not worth trading one of our best young wingers for possibly a 1 year rental.

I'm curious though, is it within the rules to have say, Red Wings negotiate a deal with Buff, have him sign with the Jets just so he can be traded to Detroit??

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Andersson is a non-factor with cap things. He will be cheap ~1M player for his whole career, easy be burned on the waiver wire, but could be valuable kept as 13th-14th guy. As the next "cleary" everybody hates, but as a guy who will help the team more than his contract worth.

But Helm and Abdelkader are gonna get UFA raises and will be the main problem, if we add another big contract.

Quincey gone will help obviously and Richards gone too. But DeKeyser will need a raise and Sheahan/Pulkkinen/Mrazek too.

If the cap is same at 2016-17 (71.4M)

1. Dats 7.5M
2. Zeta 6.1M
3. Gus 4.75M
(Mule 3.95M) don't count him on this case, expect to be LTIR.
(Richards 3.0M) - GONE
4. Tatar 2.75M
(Helm 2.125M) - GONE
(Abdelkader 1.8M) - GONE
(Miller 1.35M) - GONE
5. Sheahan 2.45M (from 950k) ~1.5M raise
6. Pulkkinen 2.0M (Mike Hoffman money) (from 735k) ~1.3M raise
7. Larkin 925k ELC
8. Jurco 900k
9. Ferraro 900k (extended)
10. Andersson 900k (extended)
11. Glendening 628k
12. XXX = 950k
13. YYY = 950k
14. ZZZ = 950k
+ Richards bonus 750k (reached conference finals, of course )

Total:
33.4M

Sheahan - Zeta - Nyquist
Jurco - Datsyuk - Tatar
XXX - Larkin - Pulkkinen
Andersson - Glendening - Ferraro
(YYY, ZZZ)
Franzen LTIR


1. Byfuglien 6.0M
2. Green 6.0M
3. Kronwall 4.75M
4. DeKeyser 4.5M (from 2.187M) ~2.3M raise (to those David Savard numbers)
5. Ericsson 4.25M
(Quincey 4.25M) - GONE
6. Smith 2.75M
7. Kindl 2.4M
Ouellet?
Marchenko?

Defencemen Total 31.2M

Howard 5.2M
Mrazek 2.2M (from 737k) ~1.5M raise (compared Mrazek to Robin Lehner 2.2M contract)

Goalies Total 7.4M

23-man roster total:
71.5M (100k over the current cap)

MMmmmm, we would be there with long teeth. But something has to be done for that cap-hell defence. There's no room for Ouellet or Marchenko. We can make one 950k hole by waiving Kindl, but another one has to be Smith traded or something like that. Ericsson has NTC.

I really think trade at the deadline would work better, because Winnipeg could eat some critical 2016-17 millions from our cap. Adding Byfuglien from free agency would be technically "free", but it forces us to quite a cap hell. It kind of kills the re-signing of Abdelkader so adding Buff we would lose Abdelkader for sure.

Byfuglien accepting $6 million long term is a pipe dream. That's only $750,000 more then what he's currently making now. He would have to really badly want to play in Detroit to accept that and I don't see that happening quite a few other clubs could offer him more. Though they wouldn't be contenders. I don't see Byfuglien accepting any thing less then $6.5 million on a 5 year deal.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I'm curious though, is it within the rules to have say, Red Wings negotiate a deal with Buff, have him sign with the Jets just so he can be traded to Detroit??

Sure a sign and trade, It has been done before Detroit and the Jets talk about a certain package and Ken Holland would be aloud to talk to Byfugliens agent about an extension just say 6x6 then Chevy extends Buff for that amount and say Detroit gives the Jets Helm+Pulkkinen+Ouellet+2nd round pick That might be way to much I'm not really that good in valuing players worth just speculating on what it might take. I just said Helm because he's a Winnipeg native and if Detroit doesn't resign him I could see him possibly going home. But yes sign and trades have been done in the past.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I'm curious though, is it within the rules to have say, Red Wings negotiate a deal with Buff, have him sign with the Jets just so he can be traded to Detroit??

it can be done if both sides agree to it but jets could fairly ask for higher price.

 

[Henkka]

With the price he will command, you go from a good contract to terrible contract real quick. If you are talking about him going from a 50-60 point D man to 35-40 point forward, as a permanent change.

25 goal (+15 assists) forward makes a big difference for the value vs. 10+30 forward.

And if you put him with Dats or Zetts (Winnipeg can only dream of this level playmakers), I think he could score easily +30 goals. Like Brent Burns was scoring on his latest forward stint with Thornton. 35-goal pace.

And if Big-Buff is the net-front, his deadly screens means more goals for other shooters. Screeners value is NEVER COUNTED on individual points.

He could also hit people straight to hospital during a playoff series.. I like that.

He is... quite a package... of fat.

And if Mike Ilitch is interested to make more money and grow hockey at Detroit, sign a black guy in there to catch black audience. Byfuglien would be spot on to create a hype. Always does something to talk about. Goals, hit, fight, or a mistake.

 

[Frk It]

25 goal (+15 assists) forward makes a big difference for the value vs. 10+30 forward.

And if you put him with Dats or Zetts (Winnipeg can only dream of this level playmakers), I think he could score easily +30 goals. Like Brent Burns was scoring on his latest forward stint with Thornton. 35-goal pace.

And if Big-Buff is the net-front, his deadly screens means more goals for other shooters. Screeners value is NEVER COUNTED on individual points.

He could also hit people straight to hospital during a playoff series.. I like that.

He is... quite a package... of fat.

I mean... could we even shoot around him? Or would he just block the whole net?

 

[Henkka]

I mean... could we even shoot around him? Or would he just block the whole net?

He moves away when the puck is coming. Right timing... you know. Right timing.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Maybe this belongs in a trade forum but I'm looking for the opinion of Red Wings fans on what we should or shouldn't do as oppose debating other fans on the value... (Though the two are very related anyway)

Anyways, most seem to be in agreement that we need a top pairing guy to be really 'up there'.

We have quite a log jam at forward and defense... If we could offer Winnipeg something along the lines of Pulkkinen, Mantha perhaps Quincey and a pick for Myers, would you folks be on board with that? Or what price would you be willing to pay? (Please don't say Kindl and 3rd)

Do you see it as even a possibility for us to still get the guy at a reasonable price?

I'd probably do that. Pulk probably will be traded anyway, He wont crack the top 6 imo. Mantha for Myers seems legit. And Quincey needs to be gone.

For us its really Mantha,and a pick.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

no chance the jets trade a young mobile big cost controlled top pairing dman for anything short of over payment on what they paid to land him in the first place

that ship has sailed

we should have traded for him 11 months ago when we had out chance

big buff wont be made available so long as the jets are a legit playoff team, which they're equally to us, so he would either be moved after the season for a 4th rd pick for talking rights or could be had on july 1st

yes the jets would risk losing him for nothing

on july 1st he easily commands 5 years and 33 million

 

[evolutionbaby]

Why can't they sign both? Do they have some internal money budget?

Jets will have 12 million in cap space...

Even if they have to extend (after next season) Trouba (+4M raise), Scheifele (+3M raise), Byfuglien (1M), Ladd (1M raise), that makes only +9M of most meaningful raises.

They would be easily under even a regressing cap at season 2016-17.

I think they should extend Byfuglien and trade him afterwards. Longer contract would raise his trade value a lot.

There has been many reports out of Winnipeg that they won't be able to sign both. When they arrived in the league there was an internal budget, but I thought I just heard something that they plan on being a "cap" team. I took that to mean "at the cap". So I don't know. Everything I have heard here in Winnipeg has been one or the other though

 

[r0bert8841]

Buff is also one of the most clutch players I've ever seen in some of his Chicago runs. If we could grab Buff, we are going to be making playoff runs, assuming we can resign him.

 

[Henkka]

Byfuglien accepting $6 million long term is a pipe dream. That's only $750,000 more then what he's currently making now. He would have to really badly want to play in Detroit to accept that and I don't see that happening quite a few other clubs could offer him more. Though they wouldn't be contenders. I don't see Byfuglien accepting any thing less then $6.5 million on a 5 year deal.

Just like Green accepted less, and didn't break the bank. These things happen. Cap has pushed almost every contender against the cap, so the salary competition is less existent every year. People want to join the contender and not hoard the biggest money. They understand that individual caphit lessens the team condending status. Giordano didn't break the bank and he is a real Norris defenceman which Byfuglien is not.

Nobody wasn't enough stupid to throw big money to Franson. Milbury's are non-existent.

Especially if the cap stalls, overpaying big money for Byfuglien is a pipe dream. He is 31-year old at next summer, and will get a market value. Just like Green did. Nobody is gonna overpay. Some 6-year contract with regressing money would work. 8-8-6-6-4-4 = 36 million, 6.0M caphit.

But still, best way for us would be a trade for him, where we could send some problematic 2016-17 salary away (+prospects to compliment that), and then extend Big-Buff.

 

[Frk It]

But still, best way for us would be a trade for him, where we could send some problematic 2016-17 salary away (+prospects to compliment that), and then extend Big-Buff.

So... Ericsson for Byfuglien? Sign me up!

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Just like Green accepted less, and didn't break the bank. These things happen. Cap has pushed almost every contender against the cap, so the salary competition is less existent every year. People want to join the contender and not hoard the biggest money. They understand that individual caphit lessens the team condending status. Giordano didn't break the bank and he is a real Norris defenceman which Byfuglien is not.

Nobody wasn't enough stupid to throw big money to Franson. Milbury's are non-existent.

Especially if the cap stalls, overpaying big money for Byfuglien is a pipe dream. He is 31-year old at next summer, and will get a market value. Just like Green did. Nobody is gonna overpay. Some 6-year contract with regressing money would work. 8-8-6-6-4-4 = 36 million, 6.0M caphit.

But still, best way for us would be a trade for him, where we could send some problematic 2016-17 salary away (+prospects to compliment that), and then extend Big-Buff.

I see your point and your right, With the cap situation players are going to have to accept much less. Or team will be like Boston, Chicago and Pittsburgh having to unload on contracts to be able to sign other players. $36 million on a 6 year deal is what I'm thinking as well if we do trade for Buff and sign him long term that's pretty much what I would see us signing him for and think that he would pretty much accept the deal.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

So... Ericsson for Byfuglien? Sign me up!

Me too, If it was only that simple.

 

[Mister Ed]

Quincey + Pulkkinen + 1st is what I would offer. It would probably cost more for Buff.

WIN's needs are a LHD. Myers, Trouba, Postma are RHD and Stuart, Enstrom, Clitsome and Pardy are left-handed - Quincey, I think, is better than all of the LHD options WIN has.

I might have rose-coloured glasses, though.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Quincey + Pulkkinen + 1st is what I would offer. It would probably cost more for Buff.

WIN's needs are a LHD. Myers, Trouba, Postma are RHD and Stuart, Enstrom, Clitsome and Pardy are left-handed - Quincey, I think, is better than all of the LHD options WIN has.

I might have rose-coloured glasses, though.

That's pretty much what I would offer as well. To bad that we couldn't do Ericsson instead of Quincey though.

 

[Retire91]

Not a real fan of the wings constantly moving their first and second round picks when there are so few top teir prospects in the pipe line. Sure the wings have a great draft history and prospect group but unless Mantha, Larken, and Mrazek accept the torch from Daytsuk and Zetterberg the wings need to keep stocking the pipeline. A 30 y.o. defenseman is not the place to be throwing firsts around. For Myers sure, but not Buff.

Besides if Blash crashes and burns and Green doesn't get it done that could be a nice pick. The package would need to be a grab bag of mediocrity going the other way or no deal. If that's not what they want then everyone moves on. Holland already let Hamilton and Desperes move to other teams for nothing, why blow top assets on a 30 year old.

 

[Henkka]

Quincey + Pulkkinen + 1st is what I would offer. It would probably cost more for Buff.

WIN's needs are a LHD. Myers, Trouba, Postma are RHD and Stuart, Enstrom, Clitsome and Pardy are left-handed - Quincey, I think, is better than all of the LHD options WIN has.

I might have rose-coloured glasses, though.

I think I would offer Smith, because it would open that 2016-17 cap a bit. Quincey is gone at 2016 summer in any case. And I think Winnipeg could like Smitty as LhD. And he is younger than Quincey.

They have Enström, Chiarot and M.Stuar there on the left side, two latest ones are ultra-defensive, so Smith could bring some (hidden offence we have been waiting to come out) for them.

At the deadline, it will work, if Winnipeg will eat 50% of Byfuglien's caphit. Then he would bring 2.6M number in. And 2.75M number Smith would go out. We can't eat anyhow bigger caphits (than going out), if Franzen isn't on LTIR for whole year. That's possible. Then we could take Big-Buff just as he is.

At the trade dealine, 75% of real yearly salary is already paid, so if Winnipeg will eat half of that remaining 25% yearly salary, that does mean only 650k on real money. And that 2.6M cap number fits to our cap, if Smith is going out.

Then we add a pick or prospect to seal the deal.

Byfuglien 2.6M (50% retained), 1-season left to UFA <> Smith 2.75M, 2-years left to UFA + pick/prospect.

Then we hopefully extend Big-Buff and would have at 2016-17 this defence:

DeKeyser - Green
Kronwall - Byfuglien
Ericsson - Ouellet/Marchenko
(Kindl)

Smith traded, Quincey let walk.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I absolutely agree. Buff would be great this season, but I don't want him under contract moving forward. My money says that his play will fall off a cliff given the way that he takes care of himself.

Exactly, Winnipeg can carry him the full season and prepare themselves for a nice playoff run. Then they can part ways with Buff and not take on any risk of his play falling off, which typically happens with bigger d-men. And they just got Myers - who is just entering his prime - to replace him on a really nice long term deal. That's excellent roster management.

Talk of Winnipeg trading Myers just seems silly to me. We had our shot and we blew it.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I think I would offer Smith, because it would open that 2016-17 cap a bit. Quincey is gone at 2016 summer in any case. And I think Winnipeg could like Smitty as LhD. And he is younger than Quincey.

They have Enström, Chiarot and M.Stuar there on the left side, two latest ones are ultra-defensive, so Smith could bring some (hidden offence we have been waiting to come out) for them.

At the deadline, it will work, if Winnipeg will eat 50% of Byfuglien's caphit. Then he would bring 2.6M number in. And 2.75M number Smith would go out. We can't eat anyhow bigger caphits (than going out), if Franzen isn't on LTIR for whole year. That's possible. Then we could take Big-Buff just as he is.

At the trade dealine, 75% of real yearly salary is already paid, so if Winnipeg will eat half of that remaining 25% yearly salary, that does mean only 650k on real money. And that 2.6M cap number fits to our cap, if Smith is going out.

Then we add a pick or prospect to seal the deal.

Byfuglien 2.6M (50% retained), 1-season left to UFA <> Smith 2.75M, 2-years left to UFA + pick/prospect.

Then we hopefully extend Big-Buff and would have at 2016-17 this defence:

DeKeyser - Green
Kronwall - Byfuglien
Ericsson - Ouellet/Marchenko
(Kindl)

Smith traded, Quincey let walk.

That looks like one sweet defence for the 2016-17 season if we can trade for Buff and then extend him long term.

 

[Mister Ed]

DeKeyser - Green
Kronwall - Byfuglien
Ericsson - Ouellet/Marchenko
(Kindl)

That would be a better D than this year's crop. And I like that in your projections, Dekseyser takes that next step and becomes the team's #1 defenceman. He has the potential to be that good.

Then, use the you FW surplus to go up in the draft to pick Chychrun (likely 2nd OV) or Juolevi (likely 10th OV).

 

[Frk It]

DeKeyser - Green
Kronwall - Byfuglien
Ericsson - Ouellet/Marchenko
(Kindl)

That would be a better D than this year's crop. And I like that in your projections, Dekseyser takes that next step and becomes the team's #1 defenceman. He has the potential to be that good.

Then, use the you FW surplus to go up in the draft to pick Chychrun (likely 2nd OV) or Juolevi (likely 10th OV).

Byfuglien would be the #1 defenseman over both Green and Dekeyser.

You can't actually be a #1 defenseman without heavy PP time, and on a team with Kronwall, Byfuglien, and Green, Dekeyser is flat out not going to get that.

Could be a top pair defensive complement to a guy like Byfuglien if he keeps improving and Kronwall declines, but not a #1.

 

[Mister Ed]

Byfuglien would be the #1 defenseman over both Green and Dekeyser.

You can't actually be a #1 defenseman without heavy PP time, and on a team with Kronwall, Byfuglien, and Green, Dekeyser is flat out not going to get that.

Could be a top pair defensive complement to a guy like Byfuglien if he keeps improving and Kronwall declines, but not a #1.

Sorry, I meant to say #1 Defensive D, kind of like a Suter to Byflugien's Weber, if you know what I mean.

 

[Frk It]

Sorry, I meant to say #1 Defensive D, kind of like a Suter to Byflugien's Weber, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, that makes sense. I saw someone compared him to Girardi, I think that's a pretty good comp of what he can become for us.