Hutton/Stecher/Tryamkin
- Thread starter Lindgren
- Start date
They all max out as a second pair dmen.
Stecher will get pp time to boost his minutes.
Same with Hutton.
Tryamkin is the wildcard. If he continues to improve his conditioning and plays with more of an edge, he can be very prominent for the team in a defensive capacity.
This is why I favor holding onto tanev, unless the return is too good to pass up.
Edler, gudbranson, scisba, I'm okay to move.
Stecher will get pp time to boost his minutes.
Same with Hutton.
Tryamkin is the wildcard. If he continues to improve his conditioning and plays with more of an edge, he can be very prominent for the team in a defensive capacity.
This is why I favor holding onto tanev, unless the return is too good to pass up.
Edler, gudbranson, scisba, I'm okay to move.
Bad News Benning
Fallin for Dahlin?
Stecher upside is Spurgeon but he will need to get stronger over the next few summers.
Hutton is a 2nd or 3rd pairing d that has work to do defensively if he wants to get top 4 minutes every night.
Tryamkin is still a work in progress so we don't really know his ceiling right now. He needs to improve on his shot and offensive game if he is to ever be a top pairing guy.
Hutton is a 2nd or 3rd pairing d that has work to do defensively if he wants to get top 4 minutes every night.
Tryamkin is still a work in progress so we don't really know his ceiling right now. He needs to improve on his shot and offensive game if he is to ever be a top pairing guy.
Have to concede that all three guys have had uneven paths of development so far....Hutton couldn't come close to his rookie season, and has only started to pick it up recently.
...And Stecher just looks gassed right now....at his size, stamina and strength are going to be an issue over an 82-game schedule....agree that Tryamkin might have the highest upside, but hasn't been the same player since he was felled with the mumps.
I know lots of posters/pundits feel the Canucks have depth on the blueline, but until all three of these guys demonstrate far more consistency, the jury is still out.
...And Stecher just looks gassed right now....at his size, stamina and strength are going to be an issue over an 82-game schedule....agree that Tryamkin might have the highest upside, but hasn't been the same player since he was felled with the mumps.
I know lots of posters/pundits feel the Canucks have depth on the blueline, but until all three of these guys demonstrate far more consistency, the jury is still out.
In a normal Hockey market that hasn't been starved of NHL prospects for like a decade. These are just your normal run of the mill Defensive prospects that may develop into 500 game NHL regulars or fade away into obscurity. They are support players. Chances are, their "ceilings" are easily replaced during any of the next 50 July 1sts. However, in Vancouver, people treat them like the state of the franchise depends on their success or failure. That is why we need to continue manufacturing picks and finish near the bottom of the league. The only way we acquire a Dman that matters is to draft them. I'm still not even close to comfortable with what we have for upside.
Dynamic 2nd paring dman are still pretty valuable. I think Stecher and Hutton definitely has that potential. Feel like Hutton might be the more dynamic one and Stecher the more well rounded one.
Tryamkin is really hard to tell, he has a lot of kinks to work out on the defensive end and he hasn't really shown anything from the offensive side.
Black Noise
Flavourtown
DTMAboutHeart on twitter has a Expected Plus-Minus Rating (XPM), which is like a WAR stat. This is how these 3 are ranked:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Q0aTOmSmGNzsMGbMb8at3X_k0c/edit#gid=558254028
Stecher - 85th Defenceman in the league, 1st on Canucks
Hutton - 168th Defenceman in the league (out of 181), 7th (last on Canucks)
Tryamkin - 115th Defenceman in the league, 3rd on Canucks
Also worth noting that this model doesn't include personla production, which would boost Stecher and Hutton a little.
I think Stecher is the real deal, once he gets used to the longer season I can see him being a good #3, maybe even a #2 if we get lucky.
Hutton and Tryamkin are good but as someone else stated they'll most likely be 4/5 defenceman.
Lindgren
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2005
- 6,030
- 3,956
me2
Go ahead foot
https://hockey-graphs.com/2016/10/24/a-primer-on-dtmabouthearts-war-model/
My WAR model consists of 6 major components (and some minor components within those):
Even-Strength Offense
Even-Strength Defense
Power-Play Offense
Drawing Penalties
Taking Penalties
Faceoffs
Getting on the PP seems like it will boost you a bit in this model.
Not debating their potential. A Dman takes what? 8 years from his draft year to hit his peak? I just don't see them as guys who will define the team. Are we going to look back on their careers in 15 years and reminisce? I doubt it.
On the surface it appears we need some elite forward prospects more than anything else. I disagree. I think we still need to take the best PMD available in the 1st round. It takes longer to develop these guys, and it will also help with possession down the road. We can have all the skilled forwards in the world but if we don't have Dynamic Dmen to distribute, they'll still be dumping and chasing. If we plan on sucking for a while we will have several chances to draft a generational 1C. We need to get elite puck movers brewing ASAP. Juolevi ain't even close to enough. It's still our biggest need.
Horse McHindu
They call me Horse.....
Off the top of my head, here is what I think:
Tryamkin: I think Tryamkin is the real deal. I think he'll be good 2nd pairing defenseman at minimum, with possible 1st pairing potential. I haven't ruled out superstardom for Tryamkin. I am THAT high on him.
Hutton: I like Hutton, but I'm not sure if he's going to get to the level that we need him to be at. I don't see him panning out unfortunately, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Stetcher: Stetcher is on the fence for me, but I think he'll develop into a solid 2nd pairing guy. The kid has spunk and is a competitor. I think he'll end up being semi-decent, and will find his niche on the Power Play.
Out of these 3 guys however, Tryamkin is the one who I think will be a long term fixture. I see Tryamkin being our Bo Horvat on defense.
Black Noise
Flavourtown
XPM is suppose to be a predictive model, it doesn't show how well a player is currently doing but instead what the player will do in the future. The reason for this is because XPM is based off of an expected goals model.
The one main difference from WAR and XPM is that XPM doesn't included individual production.
Black Noise
Flavourtown
Tanev ranks very high in the Defensive XPM, I believe 1st out of all defenceman in the league. However his Offensive XPM is really low so it brings him down overall.
Red
Registered User
For me:
Stecher: upside - 2D, downside - 4D
Hutton: upside - 3D, downside - 4D
Tryamkin: upside - 4D, downside - 6D
Stecher: upside - 2D, downside - 4D
Hutton: upside - 3D, downside - 4D
Tryamkin: upside - 4D, downside - 6D
I see Hutton as a solid 2nd pairing Dman. He's not going to produce huge offensive numbers or anchor a pairing, but he's going to play solid defense, move the puck efficiently, and put up decent offensive totals. Kind of a lesser early Hamhuis.
Stecher I see as a #3 or #5. He'll be a #3 if he puts up the offense. If his offensive numbers aren't there, he might not last as a 2nd pairing D for long.
Tryamkin I see as the defensive partner to an offensive Dman on the first or second pairing. Tryamkin can partner with anyone and teams won't score much when Tryamkin is on the ice.
Stecher I see as a #3 or #5. He'll be a #3 if he puts up the offense. If his offensive numbers aren't there, he might not last as a 2nd pairing D for long.
Tryamkin I see as the defensive partner to an offensive Dman on the first or second pairing. Tryamkin can partner with anyone and teams won't score much when Tryamkin is on the ice.
Tryamkin to me has by far the highest potential to be a difference maker in the league. People have to remember, this is basically his rookie season. He's also the youngest of the 3. The fact that he's come along as much as he has in the short period he has... with the language barrier, cultural barrier, etc. I just see him continuing to get better and better.
Tryamkin - 1st pairing potential with a very slim chance at being a true #1. Other #1 guys his size and age didn't really come into their own for a few more years (IE: Chara, Pronger, etc). Min = #3-4.
Hutton - Decent 2nd pairing guy with potential to be a PP quarterback. I think he and Tryamkin could be a very solid pair. #3-5
Stetcher - Stetcher kinda reminds me a bit of Tanev... but a cheapman's Tanev with some offensive upside. He isn't as good defensively, and I don't think he ever will be. But he is certainly more gifted offensively. I don't think he'll ever be more than a #3-4 with some 2nd pairing PP time.
Tryamkin - 1st pairing potential with a very slim chance at being a true #1. Other #1 guys his size and age didn't really come into their own for a few more years (IE: Chara, Pronger, etc). Min = #3-4.
Hutton - Decent 2nd pairing guy with potential to be a PP quarterback. I think he and Tryamkin could be a very solid pair. #3-5
Stetcher - Stetcher kinda reminds me a bit of Tanev... but a cheapman's Tanev with some offensive upside. He isn't as good defensively, and I don't think he ever will be. But he is certainly more gifted offensively. I don't think he'll ever be more than a #3-4 with some 2nd pairing PP time.
I agree that Tryamkin has the highest potential but I don't think you could project him to be a true #1.
They should put an entire summer of training into his slapper. Hire Al Iafrate and Dave Manson and lock them in a dungeon for the entire summer. When they open the vault he will emerge a disturbed man. After surviving off his mentors corpses and firing pucks at their skeletons to pass the time. It's the only way he could ever put up big numbers.
Yes with above strategy in 10 years maybe we can have Myers Buffy Trumba and rule the hockey world. I do not see a lot of Tryamkin level potential d men in the league and fans should be excited about him. Most of the very good dmen were not drafted top 10 many not top 30 so not sure about the we have to draft good d by drafting high up in the draft comes from? We just need to draft, sign and hope. I think maybe the position is very overrated we need a stud but teams who have them mostly got lucky ie Subban Weber Keith Karlsson Burns Chara Letang. Only Hedman and Doughty are top of draft picks out of stud dman. Not sure you can plan getting a stud you can only hope in the meantime you stockpile good young d like these 3.
Balls Mahoney
2015-2016 HF Premier League World Champion
Hutton - Great top four offensive defenseman who isn't elite at any particular thing but a minute eater who's a great team guy.
Stetcher - First pairing offensive defenseman like Torey Krug. Huge potential.
Tryamkin - I have been a fan of this kid since he first appeared on my radar when he was floating around in the MHL. There's something very very special with this kid. I see him being a frightening defensive defenseman for a few seasons before he finally puts together and turns into an top pairing defenseman. He'll probably never have an elite shot like Pronger or Chara but he'll be a top echelon physical top pairing two-way defenseman.
Stetcher - First pairing offensive defenseman like Torey Krug. Huge potential.
Tryamkin - I have been a fan of this kid since he first appeared on my radar when he was floating around in the MHL. There's something very very special with this kid. I see him being a frightening defensive defenseman for a few seasons before he finally puts together and turns into an top pairing defenseman. He'll probably never have an elite shot like Pronger or Chara but he'll be a top echelon physical top pairing two-way defenseman.
Tobi Wan Kenobi
Registered User
You bring up good points. However, I had to re-read to confirm you actually stated that a Stud, Norris caliber defensemen is "Overrated". There are no more than 10 of these defensemen playing in the world at any given time. They are basically Demigods. You cannot compare Tryamkin to Karlsson or Burns.
I'm talking more about defensmen that create offence. Guys who can run a power play and feed the cycle. We don't even have a guy who can get a shot on net consistently. Those offensive guys are usually taken in the 1st round. We need like 3.
Lindgren
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2005
- 6,030
- 3,956
If I said that the acquisition or development of these players was a sign of what a great GM Benning is, and proof that all the haters are delusional, I wonder if that would move some of the action from the endless debate about Granlund etc. over here.
Tryamkin might look good to some of you, but the advanced stats say he can't prevent a zone entry to save his life. He's a train wreck in his own end and he always will be. What a waste of a draft pick.
Tryamkin might look good to some of you, but the advanced stats say he can't prevent a zone entry to save his life. He's a train wreck in his own end and he always will be. What a waste of a draft pick.
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
Roster/Rumors/Speculation/Trade Talk - 2023-24: Hotel California- Latest: Glorydays22
Upcoming events
-
-
GAME 7 - North Bay Battalion @ Oshawa Generals - Series tied 3-3Wagers: 4Staked: $875.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
Series Winner Florida Panthers vs Boston BruinsWagers: 15Staked: $115,345.00Event closes- Updated:
-