Rumor: Hurricanes offer to forward Sebastian Aho was 8-years at a $6 million AAV.

[TFHockey]

If I were a GM and considering an offer sheet I'd do 5 years $10.5 Million and see if the 'Canes match. They should. He is a hell of a player. Pay the man.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

If I were a GM and considering an offer sheet I'd do 5 years $10.5 Million and see if the 'Canes match. They should. He is a hell of a player. Pay the man.

We'd match and then offer sheet that team's best RFA with way more cap and ability to inflict pain. Nobody wants any of that, so it won't happen.

 

[topshelf15]

Pretty standard offer,think it may take a little more...But he should get signed

 

[JoelWarlord]

We'd match and then offer sheet that team's best RFA with way more cap and ability to inflict pain. Nobody wants any of that, so it won't happen.

Canes already have nearly 60M in salary commitments for this year. I get that Carolina will still have tons of space even with Aho at 10.5 but I'm not sure what their internal budget is. I'm skeptical that there'd be much actual money left after matching Aho at 10.5 (which would almost certainly mean cutting him a 14M signing bonus cheque a week later) and buying out Marleau + Darling.

 

[Ciao]

When a Club owes two (2) or more draft selections in the same round, the signing Club does not elect the years in which such selections shall be awarded to the Prior Club; rather, the selections next available will be transferred to the Prior Club (i.e., a Club that owes two (2) selections has them available in the next two (2) drafts – that is when they are transferred).

The transfer of the compensation picks happens immediately, so that the team getting them can start have fun with them.

TOR can't transfer either the 2020 or 2021 1st, as both are currently locked in the Marleau trade.

When TOR would sent an offer sheet to the NHL Central Registry, it would raise an instant red flag.

The transfer of the first pick would be a conditional transfer of the 2020 pick, if it's available; and of the 2021 pick if it's not. In either case the second pick would be the 2022 pick.

As much as you might wish the Leafs don't have the picks to do this, they actually do.

I'm not suggesting they would or should do this, but only that they could do so.

 

[threeVo]

We'd match and then offer sheet that team's best RFA with way more cap and ability to inflict pain. Nobody wants any of that, so it won't happen.

Arent the canes an internal budget team tho? If they make it as painful as possible with the highest amounts of salary step down possible they are paying out like 14/12/10/8/6 per season at 5x10 if thats even possible. Canes are already committed to $51M in real salary this year without Ahos deal, need to sign a goalie and whatever other FAs they intend to try and sign.

No smart agent is going to let their player sign a deal that increases their salary over time its not attractive to kick real cash paid out til later years

 

[Ciao]

I wish I could bet actually dollars (American, not that pretty, worthless Canadian crap) that Aho will be locked up sooner than Marner.



That's true, but not everyone has to be controlled by one nutso outlier of a contract. The deal Dubas gave to Matthews was ridiculous in every way, and no team will accept it as a comparable for any player. Ever.

First of all, when you look at the contracts given to McDavid and Eichel coming off their ELCs, they were both signed for eight years. So, McDavid's AAV was $12.5 million and Eichel's was $10 million *but they gave up four years of unrestricted free agency*. Matthews was given $11,634,000 AAV while buying out only *one* UFA season. There was *zero* need to give Matthews this contract. If he wanted "McDavid money," he should have had to take eight years. Giving Matthews close to "McDavid money" without forcing him to give up three mega-earning years was just plain stupid by Dubas and not based on *any* market pressures. It was pretty much just a gift.

Matthews didn't even have arbitration rights. He had *no* leverage. The Leafs *could* have leveraged him for less money or more years, but they didn't. They decided to "give him whatever he wanted" despite there being literally *no* precedent for a contract like this. That's doesn't make it the rule. It makes it a horribly bad contract.

And now Dubas has backed himself into a corner, having to basically do the same thing with Marner. In the end, the Matthews contract is going to kill Toronto. It's going to force them to do the same to keep Marner, and it's going to destroy their cap for a decade, when they literally didn't have to do it.

So don't start talking to me about $10 million RFA deals being the "starting point." No RFA is getting $10 million AAV unless he signs for eight years with his own team. That's just simply *not* the market. Just because Dubas and the Leafs don't understand this and they willingly jumped off a cliff, doesn't mean every team has to follow them.

Just who are you lecturing here?

I couldn't care less what Aho signs for, or where he signs. That's not my issue and has never been my point.

 

[LOFIN]

The deal Dubas gave to Matthews was ridiculous in every way, and no team will accept it as a comparable for any player. Ever.

First of all, when you look at the contracts given to McDavid and Eichel coming off their ELCs, they were both signed for eight years. So, McDavid's AAV was $12.5 million and Eichel's was $10 million *but they gave up four years of unrestricted free agency*. Matthews was given $11,634,000 AAV while buying out only *one* UFA season. There was *zero* need to give Matthews this contract. If he wanted "McDavid money," he should have had to take eight years. Giving Matthews close to "McDavid money" without forcing him to give up three mega-earning years was just plain stupid by Dubas and not based on *any* market pressures. It was pretty much just a gift.

Matthews didn't even have arbitration rights. He had *no* leverage. The Leafs *could* have leveraged him for less money or more years, but they didn't. They decided to "give him whatever he wanted" despite there being literally *no* precedent for a contract like this. That's doesn't make it the rule. It makes it a horribly bad contract.

And now Dubas has backed himself into a corner, having to basically do the same thing with Marner. In the end, the Matthews contract is going to kill Toronto. It's going to force them to do the same to keep Marner, and it's going to destroy their cap for a decade, when they literally didn't have to do it.

So don't start talking to me about $10 million RFA deals being the "starting point." No RFA is getting $10 million AAV unless he signs for eight years with his own team. That's just simply *not* the market. Just because Dubas and the Leafs don't understand this and they willingly jumped off a cliff, doesn't mean every team has to follow them.

I belive you are right, but it will reamain to be seen how many other GM's might cave for a similar contract as in "very much money, shorter term". Hopefully no other RFAs get their way, and this madness can be stopped before it spreads elsewhere. I feel like many other RFAs are already trying their luck and using Matthews and Nylander contracts as a negotiating tactic.

 

[Ciao]

The leafs would be able to but the canes match anyways

Doubt that the Leafs do that anyway.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Canes already have nearly 60M in salary commitments for this year. I get that Carolina will still have tons of space even with Aho at 10.5 but I'm not sure what their internal budget is. I'm skeptical that there'd be much actual money left after matching Aho at 10.5 (which would almost certainly mean cutting him a 14M signing bonus cheque a week later) and buying out Marleau + Darling.

I think you're underestimating Tom Dundon's willingness to throw around f*** you money.

 

[Lempo]

The transfer of the first pick would be a conditional transfer of the 2020 pick, if it's available; and of the 2021 pick if it's not. In either case the second pick would be the 2022 pick.

Na-a.

Clubs must use their own draft picks (being those awarded directly to the Club by the League for use by it in the Entry Draft, including such draft picks described in the first clause of this parenthetical that a Club has traded or encumbered, and subsequently reacquired or unencumbered).

If the pick has been encumbered, it needs to be unencumbered before it is eligible to be used as compensation. You don't compensate with conditional picks. Your goods gotta be good.

Only when we know if TOR 1st 2020 is or isn't Top 10 pick, will the pick that wasn't transferred to CAR be unencumbered.

TOR certainly can't offer sheet any other team's player when one of the would-be compensatory 1st picks still is encumbered by the condition in Marleau trade. I'm fairly certain that the situation being this the Central Registry wouldn't allow a TOR offer sheet to a CAR player either, but there may be room for some legal iffiness.

Kapanen for TOR 1st 2020 (conditional)?

 

[JoelWarlord]

I think you're underestimating Tom Dundon's willingness to throw around **** you money.

I'll believe it when I see it I guess. The de Haan trade to me looked like they're still working with an internal budget and needed to cut actual salary commitments before the Marleau/Darling buyouts.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Canes already have nearly 60M in salary commitments for this year.

~52-53. They're buying out Darling and Marleau.

I'll believe it when I see it I guess. The de Haan trade to me looked like they're still working with an internal budget and needed to cut actual salary commitments before the Marleau/Darling buyouts.

The contract was uninsured, and Dehaan has shoulder and back issues.

 

[Ciao]

Na-a.

Clubs must use their own draft picks (being those awarded directly to the Club by the League for use by it in the Entry Draft, including such draft picks described in the first clause of this parenthetical that a Club has traded or encumbered, and subsequently reacquired or unencumbered).

If the pick has been encumbered, it needs to be unencumbered before it is eligible to be used as compensation. You don't compensate with conditional picks. Your goods gotta be good.

Only when we know if TOR 1st 2020 is or isn't Top 10 pick, will the pick that wasn't transferred to CAR be unencumbered.

TOR certainly can't offer sheet any other team's player when one of the would-be compensatory 1st picks still is encumbered by the condition in Marleau trade. I'm fairly certain that the situation being this the Central Registry wouldn't allow a TOR offer sheet to a CAR player either, but there may be room for some legal iffiness.

Kapanen for TOR 1st 2020 (conditional)?

You're making this up. It's not in the CBA

 

[Lempo]

You're making this up. It's not in the CBA

The cursived bit is literally quoted from CBA 10.4.

The only way I know to "encumber" a pick is to use it with a condition in a trade.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Arent the canes an internal budget team tho? If they make it as painful as possible with the highest amounts of salary step down possible they are paying out like 14/12/10/8/6 per season at 5x10 if thats even possible. Canes are already committed to $51M in real salary this year without Ahos deal, need to sign a goalie and whatever other FAs they intend to try and sign.

No smart agent is going to let their player sign a deal that increases their salary over time its not attractive to kick real cash paid out til later years

Not the point.

First, no one would actually get Aho with an offer sheet. Which means the only thing the offer sheet would accomplish would be pushing up the price for another team's RFA -- which is bad for every GM.

Which would mean that the second that GM was vulnerable to being offer sheeted, it would be open season.

There's a reason that no one makes offer sheets -- especially not when it's likely that the team would match, which it almost always is.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Ultimately, Dundon would have just grit his teeth and match it, just like the Nashville's owners did 7 years ago. It will add to the debt load, but you can't get bullied on your franchise cornerstone player like that.

I think GMs will show caution. There will be no retaliatory offer sheet from Carolina coming. The consequence is that it will rip apart a team's cap/salary structure, directly or indirectly. $10+ mil x 5 is a bad contract for Aho. Using Buffalo as a random example, if Mittelstadt hits on his upside and that contract is on the books, good luck getting a discount on him. This is precisely what's happening with Marner right now. Dubas signed Matthews to an offer sheet-like contract for some reason and now is having a difficult time trying to get Marner to take less money for more term. It's in the best interest of every GM to build a culture of sacrifice.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

You're making this up. It's not in the CBA

Lol. You're arguing the CBA with the most knowledgeable poster on the CBA I've ever met. Good luck with that one, Chief.

 

[Lempo]

In practice the agent of Aho or any other player will get the offered numbers from the prospective offer sheeting team, and without signing a damn thing takes those numbers to the old team to ask if they will do that.

There's zero reason to make it a public showdown where someone is made look bad with an official offer sheet. Only if the old team won't match you would need to sign one, and only if the teams won't then choose to mask it as a trade instead.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

The most I've gotten out of this thread is that Dundon (or whoever made the great choice to never play in their white jerseys if possible) is a badass

We all know that the Kärpät legend Sebastian Aho will stay with his mate Saku 'The Great 8'' Mäenalanen

 

[KPower]

This guy should be easy to poach.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

This guy should be easy to poach.

Said the reply baiter

 

[the halleJOKEL]

This guy should be easy to poach.

poaching is illegal, you goober

 

[mashedpotato]

So they've decided to burn this bridge with an offer that's the equivalent of a punch to the face.

 

[JoelWarlord]

~52-53. They're buying out Darling and Marleau.

Yeah so in this hypothetical add a 14+ million dollar signing bonus cheque to Aho paid the second they match, and you're already up to 65M in real dollars for the season with zero NHL goalies signed and some other guys like Williams and Ferland to either bring back or replace. I get that with the new ownership things aren't as tight as they were before but I'm highly skeptical that some sort of retribution from the Canes would be a real danger to an Aho offer sheet.

To be clear I'm only talking about the idea of a "retribution" offer sheet from Carolina, they can and would absolutely match anything offered to Aho.

The contract was uninsured, and Dehaan has shoulder and back issues.

Exactly. Big money teams don't trade away guys like De Haan for peanuts because their contracts are uninsured. Just look at the other side of that deal, Chicago got a good player for very little because the money isn't even a slight concern.