This really is a good point. Just was at the Penguins vs Sabres game (and I watch hockey religiously) and I can tell that this game is pretty significantly more advanced than the Gretzky era and Lemieux’s prime too. It’s way better than the DPE and even better than some post lockout hockey. The closing speed is significantly faster, far less time and space, defensive structure and strategy is more advanced, goalie positioning and equipment is far better and everyone can skate at an elite level.
A lot of that is due to training, better equipment and modern advancements so it doesn’t make a 2nd liner now better than a 2nd liner then in a vacuum but in order for that 80s/90s guy to keep up he would have to grow up now or need significant time to adapt. Yes there wouldn’t be hooking and holding but even if WG and ML grew up now they wouldn’t be at a skating level that would far exceed their contemporaries of superstardom in the league now. The skill and IQ would translate but the league has changed to a point that there just isn’t enough time or space to make these gaudy numbers a possibility.
The Powerplays also aren’t what they used to be in terms of volume so that would ding the totals. The ice time would be reduced for the stars of the past in todays game and they’d be asked to play hard defense. I think a lot of us (justifiably so) get caught up in what adjustments for scoring environments whether league-wide or for the league’s elite can tell us but we also forget that these numbers are really just telling us what they’d be worth in a neutral environment. That doesn’t mean that a 180+ point adjusted season is POSSIBLE now in a near 3 G/GP league in 2023 due to these drastic changes.
I want more than anyone to say Mario could do 180 at his peak now and Gretzky 190 (and I’ll probably always wrestle with this) but I don’t think the adjustments are what they’d actually do.
If Mario Lemieux was born in 1997 and came up now I think that he would be in the 150s for his peak years. Maybe one year of 160. I sincerely believe that 2 PPG or like 165 points is the most that someone can do in todays game. That’s where I see Gretzky’s ‘84. I’m hesitant to say 170 is the cap even and only Gretzky at his peak can do that in my opinion in todays game (even that is a tough sell). We have to remember that without the Oiler powerplay clicking like it did last year McDavid probably doesn’t reach 150. Yes he was pacing for mid 150s in 2021 but that was a very different league circumstance. 2023 proves it but it was almost a perfect storm for him to do it.
Those who say McDavid tier are right in my estimation.
1.8-1.95 PPG is the range I’d say.
Agree on all accounts. Another way I look at this is by observing McDavid in different areas of the game.
It’s very difficult for me to imagine a more physically gifted player than 2023 McDavid.
Fastest player with the puck on his stick at any given time, incredible vision and hockey IQ, and a super accurate shot.
How could McDavid possibly become even better?
- Crosby’s hand eye coordination?
- Ovechkin’s slap shot?
- Bergeron/Datsyuk defending abilities?
You could give him all of the above, but that would be unmatched in history. It’s like creating a perfect player in NHL 24 with 99 ratings in each attribute.
Lemieux and Gretzky both had attributes that McDavid doesn’t have (size for Lemieux, exceptional spatial awareness for Gretzky). On the other hand, McDavid possesses things that they didn’t have.
If McDavid is near the max or at the max of what is physically possible today, then I’d say Lemieux is right around that too.
