Friedman: Horvat Talks Intensifying [Update: Jan 20, 2023 - #679]

[Love]

How much more intense can these talks get?

It’s so intense that nothing actually happens

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I think they mean the talks are " In Tents". Just waiting for JR and Allvin to unzip the door and come out.

 

[Djp]

I think all 31 teams are interested if they wouldn't have to give up one of their top 3 prospects.



I'm not expecting a huge return but this is awful, and yes that's without an extension.

The package would have to include at least one of a late 1st or an equivalent (A- ish) prospect.

A middling roster player + late 2nd + average prospect is essentially the same as nothing.

Horvat is a better player this year than Giroux was last year... and then compare that return.

you can’t use Giroux as a benchmark. You had a gm in Zito trying to go all in overpaying for things he thought he needed.



last year at this time you had a clear 8 teams in playoffs in the east. This year 14 are still in it. That restricts the market due to uncertainty.
teams are not giving a 1st and 2 solid prospects/ young players for a rental.

a more likely return is a 2nd that become a 1st based on playoffs or has other protections And a decent but hot top 3 prospect.

asking for 3 things is the issue Turns it into a 2nd+ recent drafted 2nd +rounder + possibly something else

then you have cap issues. Does team have to send salary back or include a third team? Third team comp is tied to real money paid.

 

[McBooya42]

It’s so intense that nothing actually happens

Vancouver not letting his camp talk to any potential teams interested about an extension after a trade is asinine...par for the course I guess.

 

[Stickpucker]

Are they really going to trade anyone right after getting a new HC? Is that something Tocchet would sign up for?

 

[xjoeyc23x]

Are they really going to trade anyone right after getting a new HC? Is that something Tocchet would sign up for?

Maybe he wants to cut ties with all distractions.

 

[Warh1ppy]

Are they really going to trade anyone right after getting a new HC? Is that something Tocchet would sign up for?

Tocchet will wear down players. Expect injuries to Vancouvers most valuable assets because that's how Vancouver operates.

Never pulls the trigger. Waits to long. Injuries or more and then assets walk for nothing or are traded at bargain prices

 

[These Are The Days]

He's going to Tampa if Tampa wants him. End of story. Don't ask me how. Lightning fans don't even understand it. Every year it just sort of happens. I have just accepted the fact that if Julien Brisebois wants a guy, he GETS HIM. I said this in the general discussion but that humiliating 2019 sweep to the Jackets is the best thing that ever happened to this franchise. "But did you die?" was answered in a resounding yes after what CBJ did to them and does not care how much he gives up or how bad it would blow up in his face. It CAN'T get any worse than what happened to them and now they play like they have nothing to lose. And then they all got injured to shit with like 7 dudes on the team having either separated shoulders and torn knee ligaments and throw in a couple broken feet and whatever happened to Brayden Point for like 11 players who had no business being on the ice. They're gonna kill someone as soon as they remember how sour they were after losing to Colorado.

Tampa does not leak. But Vancouver does practically every day. Julien Brisebois would not even be calling if there was not some sort of plan we don't know about. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you it needs to

 

[Captain97]

Mark stone to Vegas only got a 1st and Brannstrom. (Top prospect at the time)

I think that's what Bo gets but I could see Vancouver accepting a young current nhl player and top prospect instead of a pick cuz... retool not rebuildd

Paccioretty also only got Suzuki (A+ prospect) + 2nd + Tatar who many thought was a cap dump.

Even if we value Tatar at what he ended up being.

It was an A+ 2nd + middle six player

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Paccioretty also only got Suzuki (A+ prospect) + 2nd + Tatar who many thought was a cap dump.

Even if we value Tatar at what he ended up being.

It was an A+ 2nd + middle six player

Bo > Patches and an A+ prospect is about as much, if not more value than to B+ prospects.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

He's going to Tampa if Tampa wants him. End of story. Don't ask me how. Lightning fans don't even understand it. Every year it just sort of happens. I have just accepted the fact that if Julien Brisebois wants a guy, he GETS HIM. I said this in the general discussion but that humiliating 2019 sweep to the Jackets is the best thing that ever happened to this franchise. "But did you die?" was answered in a resounding yes after what CBJ did to them and does not care how much he gives up or how bad it would blow up in his face. It CAN'T get any worse than what happened to them and now they play like they have nothing to lose. And then they all got injured to shit with like 7 dudes on the team having either separated shoulders and torn knee ligaments and throw in a couple broken feet and whatever happened to Brayden Point for like 11 players who had no business being on the ice. They're gonna kill someone as soon as they remember how sour they were after losing to Colorado.

Tampa does not leak. But Vancouver does practically every day. Julien Brisebois would not even be calling if there was not some sort of plan we don't know about. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you it needs to

Tampa doesn't have the pieces to outbid 85% of the teams in on the Bo Horvat sweepstakes, Plus even with a 3rd team retaining 25% on Horvat Tampa still can't fit him in.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

He's going to Tampa if Tampa wants him. End of story. Don't ask me how. Lightning fans don't even understand it. Every year it just sort of happens. I have just accepted the fact that if Julien Brisebois wants a guy, he GETS HIM. I said this in the general discussion but that humiliating 2019 sweep to the Jackets is the best thing that ever happened to this franchise. "But did you die?" was answered in a resounding yes after what CBJ did to them and does not care how much he gives up or how bad it would blow up in his face. It CAN'T get any worse than what happened to them and now they play like they have nothing to lose. And then they all got injured to shit with like 7 dudes on the team having either separated shoulders and torn knee ligaments and throw in a couple broken feet and whatever happened to Brayden Point for like 11 players who had no business being on the ice. They're gonna kill someone as soon as they remember how sour they were after losing to Colorado.

Tampa does not leak. But Vancouver does practically every day. Julien Brisebois would not even be calling if there was not some sort of plan we don't know about. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you it needs to

My guy, I enjoyed reading this little fantasy you wrote up here but trading for Bo is very different than trading for the other guys you may have acquired at previous deadlines. This is someone who is producing at a 87 point, 53 goal pace more than half way into the season along with the intangibles he brings. The price is going to be much more than what Tampa wants to fork, and to be quite honest you guys don't even have the pieces our dinosaur of a president has stated he's looking for in a Horvat deal.

 

[Scintillating10]

Wonder if Montreal could be third team in this? Take on some caproom for an asset?

Or, Canucks deal Horvat to us we flip him? Besides extra caproom, Montreal has extra firsts, could give up good prospect also. We have Florida pick this year, Calgary's in 2025. In case Boston or Colorado don't have the pieces Canucks looking for.

 

[KingBogo]

Vancouver not letting his camp talk to any potential teams interested about an extension after a trade is asinine...par for the course I guess.

Maybe the Canucks know the team he wants to sign long term with isn't one of the teams trying to trade for him at the TD? Maybe it is better to just have everyone give their best rental offer in a bidding war hoping they can get him to sign?

 

[TheBeard]

Wonder if Montreal could be third team in this? Take on some caproom for an asset?

Or, Canucks deal Horvat to us we flip him? Besides extra caproom, Montreal has extra firsts, could give up good prospect also. We have Florida pick this year, Calgary's in 2025. In case Boston or Colorado don't have the pieces Canucks looking for.

So the Habs give up a first and a prospect so they can flip him for... a first and a prospect?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Wonder if Montreal could be third team in this? Take on some caproom for an asset?

Or, Canucks deal Horvat to us we flip him? Besides extra caproom, Montreal has extra firsts, could give up good prospect also. We have Florida pick this year, Calgary's in 2025. In case Boston or Colorado don't have the pieces Canucks looking for.

Why would a rebuilding team in Montreal, Give up the necessary assets to acquire Bo Horvat, Can't see him signing long term with that team. he'd be better off just staying with Vancouver than.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Two 1sts is far more realistic than a dump, a 2nd, and a low prospect for Horvat. The only way that happens is if the Canucks fail at the market, like when Benning delayed on Hamhuis so Chicago sent a 1st and a recent 1st for Andrew Ladd instead, and the only thing left at the end was a last minute offer like you suggested. Once you're locked into a playoff position and know you're going to be picking in the 20's, the pick really isn't that valuable to a team trying to win the Cup. While you won't typically see teams trade more than one 1st at the deadline as that would require dipping into the next draft, they'll routinely package their recent non-impact 1st rounders with a 1st for a top deadline acquisition.

The best a Canuck fan should optimistically hope for in my opinion is something like Lysell or Newhook plus a 1st.

If the high end of what people are thinking is two firsts, and the low end is 2nd, cap dump and low prospect.

Thinking the realistic answer is somewhere in the middle.
1st, cap dump, and mid tier prospect. Maybe another (non first) pick, if the cap dump isn't expiring and isn't worth their contract.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Vancouver not letting his camp talk to any potential teams interested about an extension after a trade is asinine...par for the course I guess.

Ottawa did that with Mark Stone, lost leverage & got an uninspired return. Anaheim on the other hand (iirc) worked the return on Lindholm out b4 Boston was able to nail down an extension.

It's a real concern.

 

[Scintillating10]

So the Habs give up a first and a prospect so they can flip him for... a first and a prospect?

Plus eat half his caphit. According to the prospect and wear pick is at.

 

[JlindiesANA]

It's been pretty well reported that Horvat wants to win, doubt he goes to Arizona or Anaheim

Of course, it’s just wishful thinking on my part. Lots of these forwards I’m interest in. Pastrnak and Bo Horvat are on the top of my list.

 

[Three On Zero]

Vancouver not letting his camp talk to any potential teams interested about an extension after a trade is asinine...par for the course I guess.

Not really when the team is still actively trying to work on a deal also. Once they avenue is exhausted prior to the TDL, you then open up talks for extensions with other teams

 

[gritdash60]

f*** a Horvat i hope Yzerman doesn't get him.

 

[Warh1ppy]

Tampa doesn't have the pieces to outbid 85% of the teams in on the Bo Horvat sweepstakes, Plus even with a 3rd team retaining 25% on Horvat Tampa still can't fit him in.

This suggests Vancouver would take a quality and credible deal over something that just gets the job done; and now with Adam Foote working in vancouver having his kid around who happens to be an RHD could be the trade that happens.

Roster player: Anthony Cirelli
Underperforming Prospect under 25: Cal Foote
Pick: 1st or 2nd

100% the jimmy ruthernucks do something like this over a better deal to appease the masses get a young C/LW under long term contract to replace Horvat and that RHD everyone screams about in Cal Foote which gives his daddy control over his development.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Ottawa did that with Mark Stone, lost leverage & got an uninspired return. Anaheim on the other hand (iirc) worked the return on Lindholm out b4 Boston was able to nail down an extension.

It's a real concern.

That's not true I don't think. Winnipeg was strongly in the running for Mark Stone and the Jets owner was reported to be involved in the trade talks - that only happens when there's a contract (presumably heavily front-loaded) in the works. There weren't many bidders for Stone, but Brannstrom was seen as a major price to pay at the time.

NYR still paid big for RFA Trouba, even without talking to his agent. Anything is possible.

 

[Szechwan]

Vancouver not letting his camp talk to any potential teams interested about an extension after a trade is asinine...par for the course I guess.

I kind of get it. If he has indicated to them that he intends to hit FA this summer, allowing teams to talk to him will only reduce the number of suitors. Plus, they have said that if there is a player/prospect they want, and allowing the team to negotiate with Bo is what will make that happen then they'll do it.

For now it just seems like they're not giving that right away for free, but we shall see.