News Article: Holland nixed promotion that would have made Stevie GM

[Classicnamesup]

If not drafting a dman higher than a 4/5 makes it a bad draft, Holland has a whole lot he can tell you about bad drafting

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Well, hang on a second. Now I'm confused. I thought good moves don't count because any GM could do them, but bad moves do count because they're mistakes? Weird. It's like the standards are shifting around here or something based on who you're talking about.

When you go back to your point that the Filppula deal was a bad one from Yzerman, you can't just ignore the fact Holland offered an even bigger contract to the same player in the same offseason.

 

[InjuredChoker]

When you go back to your point that the Filppula deal was a bad one from Yzerman, you can't just ignore the fact Holland offered an even bigger contract to the same player in the same offseason.

and signed to almost as big deal (-100K AAV) to a worse player..

 

[Dotter]

janmark is better than glendening and sheahan.

Better at what? Not better as a bottom 6 center. Janmark's FO% is god awful, while Glendenning shuts down top forwards and is our best FO guy. And I don't see him being a better point producer than Sheahan.

So again I ask... better at what?

Janmark had no future here and his trade value, being unproven, wasn't going to land anything worth talking about.

Sheahan > Janmark

järnkrok is better than glendening. and maybe sheahan, though sheahan was ahead at the time. nyquist turns 27 in september. he is what he is. tatar will probably be better than this season but i guess what we saw in 14-15 is about as good as it gets.

Wings, one of the softest teams in the NHL, need the tiny soft players

I was never high on Jarnkrok. Looking at him now, I see my feelings about him weren't that far off at all.

I mean 30 points is good an all for a bottom 6 guy, but the guy is built like a bean pole and doesn't have grit to his game.

Sheahan put up 36 his 2nd year, so to say he's better than Sheahan is laughable. Wings need to get bigger and stronger and grittier. That's the direction of the team. Calle Jarnkrok isn't the direction the team is going.

Ken Holland made the right choice getting rid of none-future DRW prospects. Could he have gotten more return? I'm sure he could of gotten a 5th instead of Legwand & Cole, sure...

People forget Legwand was a big help getting Detroit to the playoffs. That in-itself is invaluable.... for Mike Ilitch's bank account.

Wings didn't lose on either of these trades. I think they were insignificant prospects at the time, and they haven't really shown much since being traded (unless you think 30 points is some kind of an amazing feat)

 

[Frk It]

Better at what? Not better as a bottom 6 center. Janmark's FO% is god awful, while Glendenning shuts down top forwards and is our best FO guy. And I don't see him being a better point producer than Sheahan.

So again I ask... better at what?

Ev strength pts

Zetterberg- 28
Janmark- 27

Ev strength goals

Tatar- 14
Janmark- 14

In just his first season. Have to see how his 2nd season goes, but kid looks really good.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Better at what? Not better as a bottom 6 center. Janmark's FO% is god awful, while Glendenning shuts down top forwards and is our best FO guy. And I don't see him being a better point producer than Sheahan.

So again I ask... better at what?

Janmark had no future here and his trade value, being unproven, wasn't going to land anything worth talking about.

Sheahan > Janmark


Wings, one of the softest teams in the NHL, need the tiny soft players

I was never high on Jarnkrok. Looking at him now, I see my feelings about him weren't that far off at all.

I mean 30 points is good an all for a bottom 6 guy, but the guy is built like a bean pole and doesn't have grit to his game.

Sheahan put up 36 his 2nd year, so to say he's better than Sheahan is laughable. Wings need to get bigger and stronger and grittier. That's the direction of the team. Calle Jarnkrok isn't the direction the team is going.

Ken Holland made the right choice getting rid of none-future DRW prospects. Could he have gotten more return? I'm sure he could of gotten a 5th instead of Legwand & Cole, sure...

People forget Legwand was a big help getting Detroit to the playoffs. That in-itself is invaluable.... for Mike Ilitch's bank account.

Wings didn't lose on either of these trades. I think they were insignificant prospects at the time, and they haven't really shown much since being traded (unless you think 30 points is some kind of an amazing feat)[/QUOTE]


janmark is better at pretty much everything except FOs than glendening is. faceoffs aren't that important outside of few key situations where janmark wouldn't be used anyway. there are dozens and dozens of possession changes during the course of the game. faceoffs play are only part of that. glendening also didn't play exclusively against oppositions top forwards most of the season. when he did earlier when datsyuk was injured, wings were playing their crappiest hockey of the season. janmark had 25 points 5on5. would've been tied for 4th on the wings.

glendening was -18 in scoring chance differential in the playoffs 5on5. next worse red wing was -10. didn't do very good job shutting down tampa's forwards. also had one of worst shot rate differentials in the whole league relative to the team and worst scoring chance differential on the wings.

sheahan had better 2nd season than janmark had this season. janmark's this season was better than sheahan's rookie and other seasons. sheahan also got more pp time.

järnkrok is weak on his skates but is pretty good defensively. small stature and skating limithis effectiveness but his smarts cover up some of those flaws.

wings need good more players. whether it's soft small players or big and gritty. last years hawks were one of the smallest in the league. didn't seem to hurt them that much as they won the cup.

i'd much rather have janmark/järnkrok than helm and corpse of richards.

that 5th for janmark and järnkrok is just laughable considering were they were drafted. and what they've done now. or kenny is just very bad negotiator in the trade market.

legwand trade was to cover up the mistake he did when signed the corpse of weiss the previous offseason. legwand was even used as our 4th line winger to finish the season. järnrkrok + 2nd seems like big price to pay to get bounced out against boston in 5. same with erik cole. actually bit different with him since they had plenty of cap space that summer and could've just signed someone that summer instead.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Ev strength pts

Zetterberg- 28
Janmark- 27

Ev strength goals

Tatar- 14
Janmark- 14

In just his first season. Have to see how his 2nd season goes, but kid looks really good.

I'm sure being on the team that scored the most goals in the league didn't help Janmark's production at all.

It boggles my mind that people want Janmark and Jarnkrok on this team. More adds to the Swedish Mafia? More small, soft players?

We are building a forward group with size, speed and grit. We may have room for one of Tatar/Nyquist/Pulkkinen but certainly not all three and certainly not Jarnkrok/Janmark in addition.

 

[Frk It]

I'm sure being on the team that scored the most goals in the league didn't help Janmark's production at all.

It boggles my mind that people want Janmark and Jarnkrok on this team. More adds to the Swedish Mafia? More small, soft players?

We are building a forward group with size, speed and grit. We may have room for one of Tatar/Nyquist/Pulkkinen but certainly not all three and certainly not Jarnkrok/Janmark in addition.

I was never in favor of signing Richards. Would have liked Janmark over Richards.

Janmark is actually a good skater, and he is 6'1". So doesn't really take away from your group you are referring to with size and speed.

Don't really care about Jarnkrok. Rather have that 2nd rounder back.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I'm sure being on the team that scored the most goals in the league didn't help Janmark's production at all.

It boggles my mind that people want Janmark and Jarnkrok on this team. More adds to the Swedish Mafia? More small, soft players?

We are building a forward group with size, speed and grit. We may have room for one of Tatar/Nyquist/Pulkkinen but certainly not all three and certainly not Jarnkrok/Janmark in addition.

i'm not opposed to trading those guys. or wouldn't have. if it were for long-term needs.

not for rentals just to make the playoffs and lose in the first round, to cover mistakes made in the summer and/or over guys who were available in summer for relatively reasonable prices.

 

[izlez]

So again, the general sentiment on this board is young players not on the Red Wings roster regularly are great players that should be leading us to Stanley Cups and Holland is an idiot for not keeping them or playing them...

Janmark - 29 pts
Jarnkrok - 30 pts
Mantha - 3 pts
Quine - 1 pts


and every young player on our roster is a completely overrated bum that Holland is an idiot for not trading while he had the chance...

Nyquist - 43 pts
Tatar - 45 pts
Sheahan - 25 pts


it's almost as if everyone thinks ever player has unlimited potential until they actually get to watch them, and then they realize they just... don't

 

[ArGarBarGar]

So again, the general sentiment on this board is young players not on the Red Wings roster regularly are great players that should be leading us to Stanley Cups and Holland is an idiot for not keeping them or playing them...

Well, no.

 

[Pavels Dog]

i'm not opposed to trading those guys. or wouldn't have. if it were for long-term needs.

not for rentals just to make the playoffs and lose in the first round, to cover mistakes made in the summer and/or over guys who were available in summer for relatively reasonable prices.

But you don't get any worthwile long-term deals done by trading Jarnkroks, Backmans and Janmarks. At absolute most those kind of prospects are throw-ins to much larger pieces being moved.

I'd also say that Cole was one of the better trade deadline pick-ups Holland has made in a long time and I don't like using hindsight to criticize what is good moves at the time. Basically any rental is absolutely useless if you don't win the cup, that doesn't mean you should never try.

 

[InjuredChoker]

But you don't get any worthwile long-term deals done by trading Jarnkroks, Backmans and Janmarks. At absolute most those kind of prospects are throw-ins to much larger pieces being moved.

I'd also say that Cole was one of the better trade deadline pick-ups Holland has made in a long time and I don't like using hindsight to criticize what is good moves at the time. Basically any rental is absolutely useless if you don't win the cup, that doesn't mean you should never try.

i think the cole deal was bad without hindsight. liked the zidlicky trade, hated the cole trade. spezza can do magical things for LH shots that crash the net. cole wasn't as good as his stats for dallas indicated. those are the kind of guys you get in FA for 2-3 mil at most OR trade for at deadline if you're legit contender and looking to make push for a cup or didn't have cap space the previous summer. we had cap space and weren't a legit contender.

i agree that one doesn't get worth-while long term investments in trade return for those guys. and they would be more of a minor pieces in deals like that. even then, something like prospect swap would've been preferable.

 

[jkutswings]

But you don't get any worthwile long-term deals done by trading Jarnkroks, Backmans and Janmarks. At absolute most those kind of prospects are throw-ins to much larger pieces being moved.

I'd also say that Cole was one of the better trade deadline pick-ups Holland has made in a long time and I don't like using hindsight to criticize what is good moves at the time. Basically any rental is absolutely useless if you don't win the cup, that doesn't mean you should never try.

Of course, you should try - if you're in the conversation for contending for a Cup. As in, your minimum expectation is to make the 3rd round. Then, go all in, and use the final piece to hopefully put you over the top.

The problem is that Detroit hasn't been a legit contender for several years, but that their general manager is in denial about it (or at least has been; we'll see what this summer holds).

 

[Classicnamesup]

Of course, you should try - if you're in the conversation for contending for a Cup. As in, your minimum expectation is to make the 3rd round. Then, go all in, and use the final piece to hopefully put you over the top.

The problem is that Detroit hasn't been a legit contender for several years, but that their general manager is in denial about it (or at least has been; we'll see what this summer holds).

Is he in denial or is an 8th seed his Stanley Cup?