Helene St. James Holland: Mike Babcock extension unlikely before season

[Hugh Mongusbig]

Not was I was going for, or meant. This is the first I had heard of a offer being giving to him and him turning it down that's all. All we have heard so far is they where not even talking about it. Just thought I would share it that's all.

It happened in Traverse City and was in the news at the time. It was announced ahead of time that the Wings were going to make an offer to Babcock, and after the meeting concluded, Holland announced to the press that a contract was unlikely to happen before the season started and both men had agreed not to talk about it to the media.

 

[evolutionbaby]

http://www.thescore.com/news/610384

 

[Claypool]

http://www.thescore.com/news/610384

I believe Babcock has stated numerous times he would rather go year-to-year on a contract.

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

If I'm understanding the article, it basically states Holland just signed a 4 year contract for $3M per.... And Babcock wants more than $3M per..... which would mean the coach is getting paid more than the GM...

I'm sorry, but that is just asking for trouble, dysfunction, and a power struggle within the organization.

 

[ricky0034]

If I'm understanding the article, it basically states Holland just signed a 4 year contract for $3M per.... And Babcock wants more than $3M per..... which would mean the coach is getting paid more than the GM...

I'm sorry, but that is just asking for trouble, dysfunction, and a power struggle within the organization.

i'll be shocked if Babcock doesn't get more than $3m/year on his next contract

 

[Henkka]

If I'm understanding the article, it basically states Holland just signed a 4 year contract for $3M per.... And Babcock wants more than $3M per..... which would mean the coach is getting paid more than the GM...

I'm sorry, but that is just asking for trouble, dysfunction, and a power struggle within the organization.

Hmm... Holland has signed personnel who'll earn more than him in the past...

Like Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

As a GM, you just hire the best possible personnel to make your team better, whatever it takes, if the owners have willingness to go for it, and that's about it.

 

[Heaton]

Hmm... Holland has signed personnel who'll earn more than him in the past...

Like Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

As a GM, you just hire the best possible personnel to make your team better, whatever it takes, if the owners have willingness to go for it, and that's about it.

The players have always made more than the GMs, not the coaches. But it is curious, why didn't the Red Wings just pay Holland more if they knew Babcock had these demands?

 

[Winger98]

The players have always made more than the GMs, not the coaches. But it is curious, why didn't the Red Wings just pay Holland more if they knew Babcock had these demands?

because they have known Babcock is likely to walk, but both parties have downplayed it to keep it from being a constant distraction. And with Detroit's hockey coverage, downplaying it to non-existence is easy.

 

[Heaton]

because they have known Babcock is likely to walk, but both parties have downplayed it to keep it from being a constant distraction. And with Detroit's hockey coverage, downplaying it to non-existence is easy.

Then it is irresponsible to allow Babcock to coach this year in Detroit.

 

[Winger98]

Then it is irresponsible to allow Babcock to coach this year in Detroit.

What's Babcock going to do? It's not in his interest to tank, I don't think we have a lockerroom that would willingly tank or revolt. Meanwhile, he's under contract and he's a good coach.

 

[Heaton]

What's Babcock going to do? It's not in his interest to tank, I don't think we have a lockerroom that would willingly tank or revolt. Meanwhile, he's under contract and he's a good coach.

Because you want to have your coach in place long term, what good is it for the Red Wings if Babcock is guaranteed to walk next year? The team would have to learn a new system, why not speed up that process if you know it's needed early?

 

[detredWINgs]

If I'm understanding the article, it basically states Holland just signed a 4 year contract for $3M per.... And Babcock wants more than $3M per..... which would mean the coach is getting paid more than the GM...

I'm sorry, but that is just asking for trouble, dysfunction, and a power struggle within the organization.

A power struggle? Just because you're making more doesn't mean there's a power struggle - it means you're more marketable than your colleague and/or hit the market at a different time. The league is replete with players who sign inflated deals with teams who have better players making less. And unless you haven't achieved a professional level of maturity yet, it's not a big deal. Kenny and Mike aren't those kinds of guys. They wouldn't be as highly regarded if they were punks behind the scenes.

Paying Babs more than Kenny should be a no-brainer if that's the problem. Holland isn't regarded at the top of his class anymore. Babs is.

 

[Frk It]

A power struggle? Just because you're making more doesn't mean there's a power struggle - it means you're more marketable than your colleague and/or hit the market at a different time. The league is replete with players who sign inflated deals with teams who have better players making less. And unless you haven't achieved a professional level of maturity yet, it's not a big deal. Kenny and Mike aren't those kinds of guys. They wouldn't be as highly regarded if they were punks behind the scenes.

Paying Babs more than Kenny should be a no-brainer if that's the problem. Holland isn't regarded at the top of his class anymore. Babs is.

But Holland's extension and the proposed offer to Babcock were only a few months apart.

I agree with the last thing you said though, but I doubt Holland would agree.

 

[Winger98]

Because you want to have your coach in place long term, what good is it for the Red Wings if Babcock is guaranteed to walk next year? The team would have to learn a new system, why not speed up that process if you know it's needed early?

I would guess it's because the successor in waiting already knows the majority of the players, had the players come up through his system in GR, and that the systems have some similarities as it is. It also allows us to keep a great coach in GR for a year to get those guys ready to make a jump with him next year. Well, hopefully, anyway.

 

[icKx]

If I'm understanding the article, it basically states Holland just signed a 4 year contract for $3M per.... And Babcock wants more than $3M per..... which would mean the coach is getting paid more than the GM...

I'm sorry, but that is just asking for trouble, dysfunction, and a power struggle within the organization.

Based on what was reported the only reason the Wings were able to keep Jim Nill around as long as they did was paying him not like an assistant but like a full-fledged GM. And he and Holland worked great together.

Does anyone know if Bowman was making more than Holland any any point? Wouldn't surprise me.

 

[joe89]

Well, we've been hesitant to pay free agents more than Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg to come here.

I guess in one way I can see why they'd be hesitant to pay anyone in the management group more than Holland.

And none of this has anything to do with money per se. Just principles and hierarchies, something the Red Wings are very strict with top to bottom.

So yeah, if Babcock demands more than Holland gets we have an issue. Or rather, Holland does.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Babcock has stated numerous times that he is comfortable going year to year. Scotty Bowman did the same while he was here. Babcock knows this is a very well functioning organization that will do whatever it takes to remain competitive. He is obviously very comfortable here and there is absolutely no reason to think he is leaving. People are always acting like the things Holland and Babcock say are somehow clouded in mystery. They pretty much do what they say they are going to do which means Babs will sign.

 

[ricky0034]

Babcock has stated numerous times that he is comfortable going year to year. Scotty Bowman did the same while he was here. Babcock knows this is a very well functioning organization that will do whatever it takes to remain competitive. He is obviously very comfortable here and there is absolutely no reason to think he is leaving. People are always acting like the things Holland and Babcock say are somehow clouded in mystery. They pretty much do what they say they are going to do which means Babs will sign.

is Holland though?

because I certainly wouldn't be

what happens if Babcock signs a 1 year deal and Blashill moves on and then Babcock leaves too? the Wings can't take that risk

 

[PullHard]

They pretty much do what they say they are going to do which means Babs will sign.

I can't agree with this, it simply isn't true at this point in time. Too much talking out of the side of their mouths has occurred over the last several years.

 

[Heaton]

Babcock has stated numerous times that he is comfortable going year to year. Scotty Bowman did the same while he was here. Babcock knows this is a very well functioning organization that will do whatever it takes to remain competitive. He is obviously very comfortable here and there is absolutely no reason to think he is leaving. People are always acting like the things Holland and Babcock say are somehow clouded in mystery. They pretty much do what they say they are going to do which means Babs will sign.

Bowman did it at the end of his career, unless Babcock wants to retire in 3 years he should sign long term somewhere.

 

[dtones520]

Well, we've been hesitant to pay free agents more than Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg to come here.

I guess in one way I can see why they'd be hesitant to pay anyone in the management group more than Holland.

And none of this has anything to do with money per se. Just principles and hierarchies, something the Red Wings are very strict with top to bottom.

So yeah, if Babcock demands more than Holland gets we have an issue. Or rather, Holland does.

Coaching and management are not the same group in the team hierarchy, unless Babcock is wanting to have more of a say on what players are brought in than a coach already does. If Holland wants to keep a guy who is regarded as the best coach in Hockey, he will have to pay him accordingly and $3 million is going to be the price to do so. Holland is not as dumb as people here make him out to be, he knows what it will take to bring Babcock back and if he wants him back, he will be paid accordingly.

Also, for the record, when we weren't paying players more than Lidstrom, he was the highest paid player or one of the highest paid players in the league, especially as a defenseman.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Bowman did it at the end of his career, unless Babcock wants to retire in 3 years he should sign long term somewhere.

I think he is betting on himself. He is confident his stock will rise. If he wins another cup he will be worth even more. He is very secure and widely considered the best in hockey. Why does he need to sign a long term deal?

 

[ricky0034]

I think he is betting on himself. He is confident his stock will rise. If he wins another cup he will be worth even more. He is very secure and widely considered the best in hockey. Why does he need to sign a long term deal?

why would a team with a great alternative option in Blashill let Babcock do one year deals and risk losing them both?

 

[T Low]

It's a pretty safe bet that Babcock will leave at the end of this season or next season, and Blashill will takeover.

 

[Actual Thought*]

why would a team with a great alternative option in Blashill let Babcock do one year deals and risk losing them both?

I guess that would depend on the type of relationship they had. I don't think Babs is going anywhere.