HOH Top 60 Wingers of All Time

[Canadiens1958]

I think you are severely underrating what he has managed to do. Sure his playoffs record doesn't relate but it's so hard to compare 06 to now. In a time where 50% of the teams were able to string together back to back wins. I feel like there should be a lot more stock put into winning a cup these days. Especially when the talent is mostly drafted and developed rather than signed freely.

I also think you are severely underestimating the difficulty in acheiving a 50 goal season. It's not as willy nilly as you seem to think it is.

Why does a 50 goal season matter?

Especially when as you say more stock should be put into winning the cup.

Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Patrick Kane, Kopitar have 14 SC championship teams between them but have combined for a total of 2 seasons where one of them has scored 50 or more goals.

 

[Daximus]

Why does a 50 goal season matter?

Especially when as you say more stock should be put into winning the cup.

Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Patrick Kane, Kopitar have 14 SC championship teams between them but have combined for a total of 2 seasons where one of them has scored 50 or more goals.

I'm just talking about comparing cup wins across eras, more stock should be put into winning a cup these days compared to the 06 era not winning a cup vs a 50 goal season. Comparing 50 goal seasons across eras is an interesting case as well. There was a period where guys put them up in bunches. Now it seems only 1 guy can do it fairly regularly. That same guy managed to hit 65 as well. When I get back to my computer after work I want to really dig in and compare. Bobby Hull is the one guy who seemed to do it all in the regular season but only managed to win one cup on the back of a standout performance.

How much stock should one put into the WHA?

 

[GreatGonzo]

49 was a fail since the objective was 50. Even at 47 he wins the Richard yet Ovi wanted 50. No impact on the standings. Just an artificial benchmark reached countless times by even average players. Gary Leeman.

Up thread you mentioned Dave Andreychuk. Fact remains teams were willing to pay him for other attributes besides scoring.

Ovi's quirks are tolerated since he is entertaining and a draw, secondary benefits to a team.

You clearly have no idea what a compiler is. Just because he wanted to score ONE more goal that you deem meaningless, doesn’t suddenly mean his 49 goals and 87 points all together made no impact. So what if he wanted 50? Did his team suffer because of it? Was it such a selfish move for your taste that you can’t get over and decide to just throw a term at him that clearly doesn’t fit?

Sure, if “veteran leadership” while playing bottom line minutes, scoring 30-40(barely) points a year is worthy attributes and is clearly superior to Ovis goal scoring.....Ovis contribution and impact is worlds better than anything Andreychuk did....yet he’s the compiler....

Your posts are so bitter. I think you should learn how to separate your obvious dislike for Ovi, and actual logic. It’s getting blended to just pure saltiness.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Why does a 50 goal season matter?

Especially when as you say more stock should be put into winning the cup.

Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Patrick Kane, Kopitar have 14 SC championship teams between them but have combined for a total of 2 seasons where one of them has scored 50 or more goals.

I think the bigger question is why is it a bad thing that he wanted to score 50 goals? It seems to bug you more than anyone else and it’s pretty silly. Especially since he ended up scoring 15 goals in the post season en route to a Cup and Conn Smythe.

 

[The Macho King]

You clearly have no idea what a compiler is. Just because he wanted to score ONE more goal that you deem meaningless, doesn’t suddenly mean his 49 goals and 87 points all together made no impact. So what if he wanted 50? Did his team suffer because of it? Was it such a selfish move for your taste that you can’t get over and decide to just throw a term at him that clearly doesn’t fit?

Sure, if “veteran leadership” while playing bottom line minutes, scoring 30-40(barely) points a year is worthy attributes and is clearly superior to Ovis goal scoring.....Ovis contribution and impact is worlds better than anything Andreychuk did....yet he’s the compiler....

Your posts are so bitter. I think you should learn how to separate your obvious dislike for Ovi, and actual logic. It’s getting blended to just pure saltiness.

I want to piggy-back on this. I hate Ovi as a player. I think he's sneaky dirty and a bit of a diver while often being a net negative defensively. But come on - who cares if he's not as dynamic as when he was 24. He's still the best goal scorer in the league. The fact he does it with one timers instead of bull rushes from the blueline doesn't really change much.

 

[Canadiens1958]

I'm just talking about comparing cup wins across eras, more stock should be put into winning a cup these days compared to the 06 era not winning a cup vs a 50 goal season. Comparing 50 goal seasons across eras is an interesting case as well. There was a period where guys put them up in bunches. Now it seems only 1 guy can do it fairly regularly. That same guy managed to hit 65 as well. When I get back to my computer after work I want to really dig in and compare. Bobby Hull is the one guy who seemed to do it all in the regular season but only managed to win one cup on the back of a standout performance.

How much stock should one put into the WHA?

Why do 50 goals in a season matter? Initially it was a nice headline "50 in 50". Diluted and meaningless today.

Also in the O6 era no player managed to score 50 and play on an SC winner the same season.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Why do 50 goals in a season matter? Initially it was a nice headline "50 in 50". Diluted and meaningless today.

Also in the O6 era no player managed to score 50 and play on an SC winner the same season.

Fun trivia but is meaningless

 

[Canadiens1958]

You clearly have no idea what a compiler is. Just because he wanted to score ONE more goal that you deem meaningless, doesn’t suddenly mean his 49 goals and 87 points all together made no impact. So what if he wanted 50? Did his team suffer because of it? Was it such a selfish move for your taste that you can’t get over and decide to just throw a term at him that clearly doesn’t fit?

Sure, if “veteran leadership” while playing bottom line minutes, scoring 30-40(barely) points a year is worthy attributes and is clearly superior to Ovis goal scoring.....Ovis contribution and impact is worlds better than anything Andreychuk did....yet he’s the compiler....

Your posts are so bitter. I think you should learn how to separate your obvious dislike for Ovi, and actual logic. It’s getting blended to just pure saltiness.

Actually enjoy watching Ovi play, he brings pure joy to every shift.

Bit short on some necessary hockey skills.

BTW your attempts at psychology are weak.

 

[Michael Farkas]

C1958 is actually right about this portion of it...I still don't rate Ovechkin as a "compiler" in my sense of the word, but he's right about this incident...I documented it back in May when we were talking in the greatest goal scorers thread...

"Game 82 - a worthless, meaningless game against NJ, Ovechkin is all over the ice...he played over 10 minutes of the 3rd period, including 6:04 of the last 8:10 (!) just to try to get his 50th goal. Meanwhile, in game 1 of the Patrick Division Semi-Final vs. CBJ...he has a leisurely game 1 and is absolutely nowhere to be found in a Caps home loss..."

Essentially: He's dominant in an attempt to get what really is a meaningless goal in a meaningless game for himself and then comes out in game 1 of the playoffs and does zippo for his team. The optics of that are really poor. Now, of course, he turned it around and all that...but it was a same-old-song-and-dance start...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Fun trivia but is meaningless

Actually goes to TOI.

 

[vippe]

Well this was a fun read.. he he he

 

[Daximus]

Why do 50 goals in a season matter? Initially it was a nice headline "50 in 50". Diluted and meaningless today.

Also in the O6 era no player managed to score 50 and play on an SC winner the same season.

It's just a bar that has been set as a good goalscoring season in the current era. I'm sure if the top guys could hit 70 regularly then 70 would be the bar but that just isn't going to happen in the current climate.

 

[Canadiens1958]

It's just a bar that has been set as a good goalscoring season in the current era. I'm sure if the top guys could hit 70 regularly then 70 would be the bar but that just isn't going to happen in the current climate.

Set by who?

Old 70 game O6 it was 20 goals.

 

[Daximus]

Set by who?

Old 70 game O6 it was 20 goals.

By the top goal scorers of this era. I'm sure if they could make it 100 they would.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Actually enjoy watching Ovi play, he brings pure joy to every shift.

Bit short on some necessary hockey skills.

BTW your attempts at psychology are weak.

Your calling him a compiler....you clearly have no idea what a compiler is. You then try to justify Andreychuks “value” outside of scoring.

Psychology? It’s basic Hockey....something I figured you had a firm grasp on.

 

[GreatGonzo]

C1958 is actually right about this portion of it...I still don't rate Ovechkin as a "compiler" in my sense of the word, but he's right about this incident...I documented it back in May when we were talking in the greatest goal scorers thread...

"Game 82 - a worthless, meaningless game against NJ, Ovechkin is all over the ice...he played over 10 minutes of the 3rd period, including 6:04 of the last 8:10 (!) just to try to get his 50th goal. Meanwhile, in game 1 of the Patrick Division Semi-Final vs. CBJ...he has a leisurely game 1 and is absolutely nowhere to be found in a Caps home loss..."

Essentially: He's dominant in an attempt to get what really is a meaningless goal in a meaningless game for himself and then comes out in game 1 of the playoffs and does zippo for his team. The optics of that are really poor. Now, of course, he turned it around and all that...but it was a same-old-song-and-dance start...

People will latch onto any moment where Ovechkin failed and make it into a huge deal. I love it. The hate is really strong around.

You use two games as evidence of......what exactly? Why do those games matter? They don’t, but they were times where Ovi showed “weakness” and we all know people jump at the chance of calling it out.

 

[Fantomas]

C1958 is actually right about this portion of it...I still don't rate Ovechkin as a "compiler" in my sense of the word, but he's right about this incident...I documented it back in May when we were talking in the greatest goal scorers thread...

"Game 82 - a worthless, meaningless game against NJ, Ovechkin is all over the ice...he played over 10 minutes of the 3rd period, including 6:04 of the last 8:10 (!) just to try to get his 50th goal. Meanwhile, in game 1 of the Patrick Division Semi-Final vs. CBJ...he has a leisurely game 1 and is absolutely nowhere to be found in a Caps home loss..."

Essentially: He's dominant in an attempt to get what really is a meaningless goal in a meaningless game for himself and then comes out in game 1 of the playoffs and does zippo for his team. The optics of that are really poor. Now, of course, he turned it around and all that...but it was a same-old-song-and-dance start...

Turned it around? He won the Conn Smythe. The optics of your post are really poor.

 

[Fantomas]

Approach vs results. 2018 last game of the season vsNJ, meaningless, Ovi has the Richard clinched by a minimum of 3 goals but he is trying for 50, having entered the game at 47.

Ovechkin tried for 50 and his entire team cheered him on. (and then they won the Stanley Cup)

 

[DitchMarner]

All this, "Ovechkin is a greedy and selfish Euro trash loser" talk would be more poignant if he hadn't just won the Stanley Cup and Conn Smythe. There's a good time and there isn't.

 

[Michael Farkas]

See, that's just it...it's the best time for people that are being honest about what they see...instead of just whitewashing the process/actions/steps to get there and going "hey, look at the result...everything must have been fine."

It's the people who start calling names and using terms like "hater" that are out of ideas...that's always the case. Always.

It's not the two games specifically that matter, it's the mindset that goes into those two games...I mean, GG, if you're a Flyers fan...you wouldn't be a little peeved if Lindros had gone absolutely ham, played 11, 12 minutes of a 3rd period of a game that was well in hand, in a game that he didn't even need to be playing in, all in the hopes of getting his 100th point...and then they come out two nights later at home in game 1 of the ECQF against some loser brigade like Florida and does jack ****...? That wouldn't chap your [lips] even a little...? Come on.

It's not an Ovechkin hate thing...I have been praising him for maturing his game this playoffs and highlighting the areas and sequences where he's shown something he's never shown before...save these trumped up charges for someone that actually deserves it...I just want to discuss the game...not gonna be on trial for this "Euro trash" nonsense...the three biggest posters on my wall growing up were Jagr, Bure and Hasek and I owned an Ovechkin jersey before a Crosby one...go kick rocks

 

[Sentinel]

I really, really, REALLY hate the word "compiler" at this point. It's a completely arbitrary term used to trash veteran players who can no longer produce at the same rate as in their prime.

If you don't like the beat, it's "boring." If you like the beat, it's "hypnotic." If you don't like catchy music, it's "primitive." If you like the music, it's "minimalistic." If it's a player you hate, it's "compiling." When it's a player you like, it's "veteran presence."

I wish we all agreed to ban this word from usage.

 

[Sentinel]

He can finish 1st in goal and still be a compiler.Ovechkin is not the player he used to be.He focuses his game on scoring goals, usually in the same fashion.It works for him, but he's not the offensive threat he once was, and he's not the offensive threat Lafleur was in his prime.

"Post-prime player is no longer the offensive threat he once was." Shocking!

And why in hell would you compare post-prime Ovechkin to prime Lafleur? God knows, you don't want to compare post-prime Lafleur to ANYBODY.

 

[BenchBrawl]

"Post-prime player is no longer the offensive threat he once was." Shocking!

And why in hell would you compare post-prime Ovechkin to prime Lafleur? God knows, you don't want to compare post-prime Lafleur to ANYBODY.

Lafleur has a longer prime than Ovechkin, and his playoff are so far ahead that the difference is more valuable than everything Ovechkin did since his prime ended.

 

[Sentinel]

Lafleur has a longer prime than Ovechkin, and his playoff are so far ahead that the difference is more valuable than everything Ovechkin did since his prime ended.

"Longer prime than Ovechkin"? Ovechkin scored 106 points in 2005-06 and had his last 50 goal season in 2015-16 (and 49 in 2017-18). That's longer than anything Lafleur ever mustered up.

If a player keeps leading the league in goals, saying "his prime ended" is a very relative term. You can call it "Ovechkin's second prime" or "subprime" if you will.
In RS only, Ovechkin's 1st + 2nd prime > Lafleur's prime. Seven Richards, baby. Tied with Hull for the most of all time.

 

[DitchMarner]

See, that's just it...it's the best time for people that are being honest about what they see...instead of just whitewashing the process/actions/steps to get there and going "hey, look at the result...everything must have been fine."

It's the people who start calling names and using terms like "hater" that are out of ideas...that's always the case. Always.

It's not the two games specifically that matter, it's the mindset that goes into those two games...I mean, GG, if you're a Flyers fan...you wouldn't be a little peeved if Lindros had gone absolutely ham, played 11, 12 minutes of a 3rd period of a game that was well in hand, in a game that he didn't even need to be playing in, all in the hopes of getting his 100th point...and then they come out two nights later at home in game 1 of the ECQF against some loser brigade like Florida and does jack ****...? That wouldn't chap your [lips] even a little...? Come on.

It's not an Ovechkin hate thing...I have been praising him for maturing his game this playoffs and highlighting the areas and sequences where he's shown something he's never shown before...save these trumped up charges for someone that actually deserves it...I just want to discuss the game...not gonna be on trial for this "Euro trash" nonsense...the three biggest posters on my wall growing up were Jagr, Bure and Hasek and I owned an Ovechkin jersey before a Crosby one...go kick rocks

Okay... so he was trying his best to reach 50 goals on the season in a meaningless game at the end of the season and then he went scoreless and didn't play well in the first game of the playoffs. He could have sat out that game against New Jersey and it wouldn't have mattered.

His 49 goal season helped his team finish first in the Metropolitan division and he finished ninth in Hart voting. It wasn't the type of season I think of when I think of "compiling." High-level compiling, perhaps, but at any rate, I don't see the relevance in bringing up an admittedly meaningless game at the end of the season and really harping on it as it has little to no relevance toward his season. It's extraneous and the generic "Euro trash loser" comment was a statement about the level of meaningfulness of the point raised in relation to the larger subject matter. There's no need to feel "on trial." The point brought up is simply quite vapid and inane in the context of the larger conversation.