Hockey's Future's Top 50 Prospects: 26-50

[LaVal]

would the committee just put Steen at #1 and completely leave Kesler off the list so we can end this?

 

[Chaos]

would the committee just put Steen at #1 and completely leave Kesler off the list so we can end this?

That a way to go overboard. He's not saying how Steen should be so much higher. Rather, he's arguing that there is no legitimate reason that a guy with limited upside such as Kesler should be higher than guys with much higher upside such as Steen, Getzlaf, Eriksson, Higgins, etc.

 

[se7en*]

And Harding.

Deslauriers is one of the most overrated prospects on this board. He has an 8.5B rating and is in the top 50 when there are goalies similiar or better than him that probably won't get into the top 50. Niittmyki or whatever his name is, is better than JDD and has even played in some NHL games and looked good playing in the NHL.

No offense but I've read alot of your posts concerning Oilers prospects and according to you they're all overrated.

 

[Slats432]

would the committee just put Steen at #1 and completely leave Kesler off the list so we can end this?

I am on it... (/kidding)

 

[loadie]

I for the most part think that the list is pretty good, but I was surprised to see Higgins at 49. From what I've read, I haven't seen him play this year, I thought he would be around the 30 - 40 mark. He was to basically be a shoe in for a job with the big club, and worked hard in the off season to improve his conditioning. Here's a player that can play both ends of the ice, and is supposed to be very smart and sound positionally. He also has a great deal of leadership skills, and no major flaws in his game, but barely makes the list? Could someone who's seen Higgins play enlighten me, because from what I've said earlier, the write ups from previous HF articles seem to put him into a 2nd/3rd line role with the Habs. Thanks.

 

[mooseOAK*]

I think that is pretty damn good draft...Not as weak as people say. Top heavy, yes but a few gems here and there.

It was the first draft that I saw where they weren't even out of the top 10 and the commentators were saying things like "offensive skills but not very physical", "speed but limited offensive skills" or"doesn't do anything great but has 'good leadership qualities". My favourite was Fistric at 27 where they said he has no offensive ability whatsoever, but he is a first rounder this year.

 

[sunb]

Again, its not like Steen is a midget. Size isnt an issue here. Six months younger? Big wow. He's a 3rd liner, so he certainly probably should be a little more physical. He played a grand total of 28 NHL games, mostly on the 4th line. Doesn't prove anything.

That is not the point. I was just disagreeing with Leafaholix's statement that Kesler has nothing on Steen. That was simply not true.

 

[Dave is a killer]

Playoff stats for W defensemen ... Josh Gorges was 2nd, Cam Barker was 3rd
Player Team GP G A PTS PIM
1 Shea Weber Kelowna Rockets 17 3 14 17 16

http://memcup.leaguestat.com/en/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=1

http://memcup.leaguestat.com/en/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=3

http://memcup.leaguestat.com/en/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=5

http://memcup.leaguestat.com/en/stats/game-summary.php?game_id=10

http://www.chl.ca/CHLMemorialCup04/0523c.html

 

[Jacob]

NYR's should place 3 amoung the top 25 w/Tyutin, Montoya and Lundquist all being there.

Not bad considering that Jessiman and Balej likely just missed the cut amoung the top 50.

Tjutin ahead of Eminger, Thelen and Whitney? Boy, I hope not.

 

[ginner classic]

Wouldn't it be grand if Ryan Kesler cracked the top 25?

A safe player with not as much upside as guys like Higgins, Steen, Eriksson, Getzlaf, Olesz, etc... all very safe prospects but with higher upside offensively.

Anyone else see the lopsidedness?

I would not be surprised if the crew that wrote this little article don't have Kesler in the Top 50. All too often rankings are based on old info and hype. When THN's list comes out you will see Kesler ranked quite high again. He is a lock for the NHL which is more than you can say for many on the list.

 

[dawgbone]

And Harding.

Yeah... and JDD was by far the best goaltender at the Selection camp last year... but Harding got it based on a better start to the season (which JDD struggled with, but had turned it around well before the camp started) and U-18 experience.

The year before that, it should be painfully obvious to everyone that they didn't select the best team they could have. Leneveu was brutal in the game he played, and if it wasn't for Fleury they wouldn't have medaled.

Aside from that, the coach for the WJC doesn't have the best resources... he has to compare goalies who play in completely different styles of leagues, and make a decision based on seeing them all together over a short selection camp. In both years, JDD played well in the selection camp, and in no way shape or form played himself out of contention (unlike many of the other goalies competing against him did, such as Harding the first year and Ward last year).

Deslauriers is one of the most overrated prospects on this board. He has an 8.5B rating and is in the top 50 when there are goalies similiar or better than him that probably won't get into the top 50. Niittmyki or whatever his name is, is better than JDD and has even played in some NHL games and looked good playing in the NHL.

JDD played on a terrible Chicoutimi team for 3 seasons, and single handidly got them to Q semi-finals (and badly out-playing a certain MAF in the process). Deslauriers is also 4 years younger than Niittymaki, so it's bound to be pretty obvious that Nittymaki will have seen some action in the NHL.

He is a very big goalie, with great laterall movement and fantastic reflexes... he also hasn't done anything but get better every year since his draft year. Him being ranked in the top 50 shouldn't be a suprise... especially when a lot of 2002 mock drafts had him going 14th (to Edmonton oddly enough), and alot of the re-done 02 drafts on here had him going much higher.

 

[leafaholix*]

That is not the point. I was just disagreeing with Leafaholix's statement that Kesler has nothing on Steen. That was simply not true.

You still haven't proven anything, as I said before... Ryan Kesler has nothing on Alexander Steen.

Size is a non-factor, they're both very strong physically at the age of 19/20, Steen's been playing against grown men since the age of 17, so it's obvious he can handle himself physically, not by dropping the gloves, but he's a strong player.

Age is a non-factor when you consider it's only 6 months.

Ryan Kesler may be a little more physical than Steen, which is arguable until we actually see them play in the same league, but that would be one of his roles as he's not a great offensive force and will need to take hits and dish them out to stick in the NHL. Steen can take a hit, that's for sure... see Tootoo running into him like a freight train back in December 2002, Steen didn't budge, and he's only gotten stronger.

Kesler hasn't proven anything in the NHL, a player is proven when they make their presence felt and force management to keep them around, not send them to the AHL for the majority of the season.

Kesler led the US to a Gold medal? Well, as I see it Parise and Montoya had a lot to do with that Gold... and the fact that he's playing alongside players like Parise, Stuart, Whitney, Montoya, etc... is a huge factor. Steen was playing alongside very weak Swedish teams with no goaltending.

Leadership... Steen has been a factor in a National Championship, the captain of the Junior National team on many occasions, and is now in his second stint with the Senior National team in the last 12 months. Steen has 140 games of professional hockey experience.

 

[Hossa]

A few, but believe me it was weak.

It wasn't lacking in talent, but it was lacking in blue chip players. A lot of top talent dropped during the season, Olesz and Schremp for example. They were considered stud prospects and dropped. It was an average or even above-average draft in terms of talent, but a lot of the talented players (like Olesz, Schremp, Radulov) had question marks attached to them, and there was a real drop off after the first 20, whereas the 2003 draft dropped off after the first 60 or so.

 

[Hossa]

JDD played on a terrible Chicoutimi team for 3 seasons, and single handidly got them to Q semi-finals (and badly out-playing a certain MAF in the process). Deslauriers is also 4 years younger than Niittymaki, so it's bound to be pretty obvious that Nittymaki will have seen some action in the NHL.

He is a very big goalie, with great laterall movement and fantastic reflexes... he also hasn't done anything but get better every year since his draft year. Him being ranked in the top 50 shouldn't be a suprise... especially when a lot of 2002 mock drafts had him going 14th (to Edmonton oddly enough), and alot of the re-done 02 drafts on here had him going much higher.

I watched him in the playoffs last year, and he was absolutely unbelievable. The knock on him was consistency, but that improved as he went along, and in the playoffs last year, he was absolutely phenomenal.

 

[Chuckalinsky]

You just did in your first sentence.



No you can't be sure. But you can't be sure about any of these. And as far as I'm concerned, Schwarz is the better prospect and as such, deserves the higher ranking.





The point is moot right off the bat as the rankings are not based on the present.

LOL....nicely done. I agree...Schwarz is the better prospect. Prospects are rated strictly on potential, and Schwarz has tons more potential than JDD. He's coming over to North America adapting to a different game, new rink size, new angles, new team, new culture, new language, etc. Give the guy a break. 15 games into the season and he's being razzed. Cmon.

 

[xander]

Tjutin ahead of Eminger, Thelen and Whitney? Boy, I hope not.

so your expecting him to drop from #13 to out of the top 50?

 

[dawgbone]

LOL....nicely done. I agree...Schwarz is the better prospect. Prospects are rated strictly on potential, and Schwarz has tons more potential than JDD.

Based on what? What does he have that JDD doesn't? What does he do better than JDD?

He's coming over to North America adapting to a different game, new rink size, new angles, new team, new culture, new language, etc. Give the guy a break. 15 games into the season and he's being razzed. Cmon.

He also got lit up at the WJC... he had 2 chances against Canada to keep the game close, and he didn't (not saying win the game, but keep it close). Now he struggles in the WHL, yet this isn't supposed to hurt his stature at all?

He still needs to actually adapt to the game, something that isn't a given. Not only that, but it's not like he got off to a rough start, and is slowly improving... he's actually been getting worse.

 

[Slats432]

Prospects are rated strictly on potential,

Not true.

 

[andora]

I just wonder how the 2004 draftees could make Whitney fall so far since he not only lead his team in scoring, AS A DEFENSEMAN, but also was fantastic in his first pro games in the AHL playoffs being one of the key components to WB's Calder Cup run.
As usual, HF gets too high on the flavour of the week and overrate the younger prospects.

i figured it out. it's because whitney is so much older than the newest crop of godsends drafted this past year..

that's why.. duh

The current season isn't a factor in the ratings. The list was made based on information up until the start of this season.

i think the list should have come out mid season, maybe around december / january, using this season, it might give a little more accurate a portrayal

 

[thestonedkoala]

The only two prospects I think that are a bit overrated for the Oilers is JDD and Schremp. While I think Schremp is a damn good prospect, I have no bloody hell of an idea how he got a 9C on the ranking and JDD got an 8.5.

For prospects on the Oilers I like, I love Semenov and Lynch. I also think Woywitka is a very solid prospect. I have high hopes for Rita and I liked Chimera. I thought the Oilers have had some damn good prospects coming up through their system...

It's just that JDD and Schremp, IMO is rated a tad high.

And if I remember correctly in JDD's rookie season in 2001-2002, he didn't play on a terrible team. He had PM Bouchard racking up a ton of points.

Point being, I can name a few goaltenders that I would put ahead of JDD or equal to him.

BTW there isn't much of a shot difference between Harding and JDD even though they are different leagues. Harding also has rebounded from one flukey game this year and brought both his GAA and his SV% way up in the AHL.

 

[leafaholix*]

Point being, I can name a few goaltenders that I would put ahead of JDD or equal to him.

Yes, and that's why he's not rated as the top goaltender.

 

[andora]

I think we all realize Steen is an excellent prospect with a better offensive ceiling than that of Kesler's but you gotta stop making crap up.


-Kesler is six months younger than Steen.

-They are on par defensively but Kesler has proven it in the NHL.

-They are on par in the leadership department but Kesler has a gold medal, a colllege resume and 28 NHL games to show for it.

To say """Kesler really has nothing else on Steen""" is a pretty blatant lie.

if he's making crap up, you're reaching immensely on these points.

- six months, please. if it was two years, maybe, but 6 months ?

- i just don't see how he can prove his defensive prowess in 28 games, some of the games i saw him play he just did what other centers like chubarov or keane etc.. did. i'd agree they're on par defensively, i just don't like the 'proven it in the nhl'

- leadership is pretty tough to judge, and i wouldn't use a sniff of the nhl as a premise, as brendl has more nhl games than steen.

it isn't a blatant lie, it's a starting point for a discussion

 

[thestonedkoala]

Yes, and that's why he's not rated as the top goaltender.

No, meaning I know the goaltenders most likely going to end up in front of him but I can name a few goaltenders (albet slightly older) that I would have in front of him.

And I can see your argument about Steen.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

That a way to go overboard. He's not saying how Steen should be so much higher. Rather, he's arguing that there is no legitimate reason that a guy with limited upside such as Kesler should be higher than guys with much higher upside such as Steen, Getzlaf, Eriksson, Higgins, etc.

Who are you to say what Kesler's upside is? That's the kind of statement that just about derails any legitimate point you're trying to make. No one here can say with any degree of certainty what Kesler's true potential is at this point. For all we know he could be a freakin stud, and Steen could bottom out.

 

[Chaos]

Who are you to say what Kesler's upside is? That's the kind of statement that just about derails any legitimate point you're trying to make. No one here can say with any degree of certainty what Kesler's true potential is at this point. For all we know he could be a freakin stud, and Steen could bottom out.

Almost everything said about Kesler by people here, scouts, etc have put his top most potential as a very above average 3rd liner(even Canuck fans say he's like Linden nowadays- 30-40 points and defensively responsible). You disagree with that?