Hockey's Future Top 50 prospects Spring 2007: 11-25

[Shabutie]

Then you should've won the game.

Sorry, but you're just looking more and more like a classless, sore loser right now.

But go ahead. Keep showing your true colors.

Honestly I don't care. You guys won, we lost. It's one year, we haven't lost since...

I think it's good that USA is developing some top end talent...it might spark interest in the sport. Once they start winning more and more, the country will stand behind them.

 

[Alberta Yote]

There are, at the time of this post, 146 posts in this thread. Jon has made 29 of them. That's roughly 1 in 5.

With that in mind, could we maybe try to focus a little more on the list, and a little less on WJCs from 4 years ago and rehashing old arguments from other threads?

WOOHOO, finally an idea I can fully support.

 

[Jeffrey]

Oh yeah of course he is, and Carey Price will be walking on water this time next year.

I remember a little of the EJ is overrated sentiment at the beginning of the WJCs after some early mistakes. Johnson then settled down and, oh yeah, won defenseman of the tournament honors.

dont mind him,
it's his opinion and no where near the opinion of every habs fans ...
you want some praise for EJ:
here it goes, Trevor Timmins (director of scouting for the habs) said that EJ was by far the most dominant player in the 2006 draft, he also said that they inquired for him and there was no response.
Also he said that physicaly he's already good for the NHL.

something personal: the blues are finally going in the right tract IMO.
They have to continue to build their defense and they should become another powerhouse in the NHL.

 

[Le Golie]

Why are you attacking the US when I never said anything about the last number of teams being absolutely pathetic?

Unless you've missed my MANY comments about the US team around the WJC times in the last few years (and you'd have to VERY conveniently miss me constantly bashing the teams, selection processes, etc) than I suggest you dig up some old posts of mine about the US squad.

But I think you're trying to take a shot at me for the sake of it since I don't see how you could possibly have missed all my shots at the US squad year after year.

But hey, don't let that get in your way of taking a needless shot at me!

Why are you using a "Hockey's Future Top 50 prospects Spring 2007: 11-25" thread to trumpet the American dominance of the 2004 WJHC and using blanket terms like "I just find it pathetic that Canadians will never, ever give the US credit for winning that game."? Why are you generalizing, insulting and seeking some sort of approval when you know it's only going to piss people off and generate more off topic flaming?

I'm sure you can find thousands of polite Canadians who will give Team USA credit for winning that game. In reality, anyone who knows hockey remembers that game as a colossal failure by Team Canada.

No team that blows a 2 goal lead in the final period AND has their own goalie score on himself in the dying minutes to seal it would be satisfied with the loss. No team would say they were outplayed, especially if they out shot the other team and failed to score on some good chances because of weak efforts. Anyone in that position would say they blew it.

So this thread should get back on topic and you should stop holding your breath for people to be polite and tell you what you want to hear instead of being realistic about how things unfolded three years ago.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Why are you using a "Hockey's Future Top 50 prospects Spring 2007: 11-25" thread to trumpet the American dominance of the 2004 WJHC and using blanket terms like "I just find it pathetic that Canadians will never, ever give the US credit for winning that game."?

I'm sure you can find thousands of polite Canadians who will give Team USA credit for winning that game. In reality, anyone who knows hockey remembers that game as a colossal failure by Team Canada.

No team that blows a 2 goal lead in the final period AND has their own goalie score on himself in the dying minutes to seal it would be satisfied with the loss. No team would say they were outplayed, especially if they out shot the other team and failed to score on some good chances because of weak efforts. Anyone in that position would say they blew it.

So this thread should get back on topic and you should stop holding your breath for people to be polite and tell you what you want to hear instead of being realistic about how things unfolded.

I think the reason why this thread got focused on the 2004 WJC's was because of the pissing match between Montreal and Ranger fans over Montoya and Price. Let's face it, both have played extremely well at the WJC. Both have exceled at the Junior/College level. In different drafts, they were selected one pick apart. There numbers are not too different as well. The reason why Montoya is ahead of Price is because A.) He is playing at a higher level then Price, B.) Montoya has made (Not sure if he started) an AHL all-star team, and C.) Montoya has put up those solid numbers at a higher level than price. Maybe there is a flip-flop next year if Price plays solid in the AHL. Who knows. It's the way it should be at THIS point in time. Next year it could be totally different.

 

[xander]

Let's face it, both have played extremely well at the WJC. Both have exceled at the Junior/College level. In different drafts, they were selected one pick apart. There numbers are not too different as well. The reason why Montoya is ahead of Price is because A.) He is playing at a higher level then Price, B.) Montoya has made (Not sure if he started) an AHL all-star team, and C.) Montoya has put up those solid numbers at a higher level than price. Maybe there is a flip-flop next year if Price plays solid in the AHL. Who knows. It's the way it should be at THIS point in time. Next year it could be totally different.

the best statement yet made on this issue.

 

[Randall Graves*]

So Parent fell outta the top 50?

He's either in the top 10 or not on at all, which IMO he belongs on neither side. He's better than Franson who is ranked 15th.

 

[Randall Graves*]

Hmm no. Price won WJC best player MVP, WJC best goalie award.

Ever think the WJC's aren't the end all be all some of you make it out to be?

 

[xander]

Ever think the WJC's aren't the end all be all some of you make it out to be?

Well Price has also played very well in junior. This just came up as the minor differance between Montoya's and Price's junior careers (WJC MVP as apposed to WJC best goalie award.) Splitting hairs.

 

[stazza18]

He's either in the top 10 or not on at all, which IMO he belongs on neither side. He's better than Franson who is ranked 15th.

I agree with you on the first point but can't say who is better him or Franson. I know Franson was more highly rated but not sure if Parent passed him this season. I don't get to see much of any of these guys, which stinks because I love watching every chance I get to.

 

[Checker*]

dont mind him,
it's his opinion and no where near the opinion of every habs fans ...
you want some praise for EJ:
here it goes, Trevor Timmins (director of scouting for the habs) said that EJ was by far the most dominant player in the 2006 draft, he also said that they inquired for him and there was no response.
Also he said that physicaly he's already good for the NHL.

something personal: the blues are finally going in the right tract IMO.
They have to continue to build their defense and they should become another powerhouse in the NHL.

The Blues are in a weird spot with their defense. They have a ton of good young defenseman whose talent levels more or less run together. Right now though they have no one who would qualify as a number 1 defenseman. Brewer is doing ok lately as our number 2. Jackman Backman and McKee are all capable top 4 defensemen. Woywitka and Polak both look like they belong at the NHL level but both have little experience and EJ is EJ with no experience at the NHL level yet. Here's the major problem. Outside of the very steady Bryce Salvador, no one on our defense is over 30 years of age. Plus, I just named off 8 guys who deserve spots on the team. We have a bunch of young talented guys who are learning as they go and still making growing pain mistakes. So I don't know that I would say we need to build our defense as much as we need to wait for them to fully hit their strides.

Thank you for the kind words about the Blues and clarifying that about EJ

 

[Herby]

Any confirmation on whether guys like Malkin, Kopitar, Kessel and O'Sullivan will be included?

As for Montoya, the guy has been nothing but a stud since he stepped into the NCAA as the youngest player in college hockey in 2002. He was a huge part of the Wolverines making the Frozen Four in 2003 despite playing almost the entire season as a 17 year old!

 

[stazza18]

Any confirmation on whether guys like Malkin, Kopitar, Kessel and O'Sullivan will be included?

As for Montoya, the guy has been nothing but a stud since he stepped into the NCAA as the youngest player in college hockey in 2002. He was a huge part of the Wolverines making the Frozen Four in 2003 despite playing almost the entire season as a 17 year old!

Pretty sure the cut off was 65 games or NHL regular this season. So I think Malkin and Kessel are out not sure how much Kopitar or O Sullivan has played.

 

[xander]

Any confirmation on whether guys like Malkin, Kopitar, Kessel and O'Sullivan will be included?

As for Montoya, the guy has been nothing but a stud since he stepped into the NCAA as the youngest player in college hockey in 2002. He was a huge part of the Wolverines making the Frozen Four in 2003 despite playing almost the entire season as a 17 year old!

a staff member hinted that Kopitar (despite him being technically eligiable at 63 games) would not be included in a previous thread, which would meen that Malkin wouldn't he either. This is the correct decision, imo. Regardless of how many games they've played, does anyone still consider Kopitar and Malkin to be prospects? They are pretty well established. My guess is that O'Sullican at 32 games (and he's been up and down once or twice, correct?) will be included in the list. No idea about Kessel.

What hurts Montoya in the eyes of many is the shaky year he had after he was drafted. But you are right, every year both before and after that he has been a stud, and this seems to be forgotten by many.

 

[Gags1288]

We have to remember that Parent was NOT a top 50 prospect last year. He wasn't even on the list.

To jump all the way to top 10 from not even being on the list after not having improved in a Phaneuf-esque way would be mind boggling.

On the other hand, it woudl be very hard to argue that Franson is a better prospect then Parent. Also, I think the list started with teams submitting their top 5 prospects in order and I can't imagine that Parent was behind Giroux on that prospect list.

 

[Red]

Franson should not be on the top 50 list, let alone 15th overall. Huge, huge overestimation of his abilities.

 

[Shabutie]

Ever think the WJC's aren't the end all be all some of you make it out to be?

Well, I assume that the WJCs are the reason that so many prospects are rated so high...I mean why else would Montoya be above Halak?

 

[KadoCH]

Well, I assume that the WJCs are the reason that so many prospects are rated so high...I mean why else would Montoya be above Halak?

It's no even as if Montoya played much if at all better than Halak in his WJC career though and Halak has been more dominating at the AHL (Halak has 9 shutouts in 41 games which is dominating) level than Montoya so why shouldn't he be top 10?

The only difference at the WJC was the team in front of the goalie. In th AHL last year the bulldogs were the youngest team this year Hartford is if Jon RX is right and Bulldogs 3rd youngest according to sportsnet so the teams are comparable. Not saying Montoya isn't a top 15 prospect its just Halak has been better than or as good as him in the last two years and at the WJC's.

 

[Randall Graves*]

I agree with you on the first point but can't say who is better him or Franson. I know Franson was more highly rated but not sure if Parent passed him this season. I don't get to see much of any of these guys, which stinks because I love watching every chance I get to.

Ehh Franson looks like he can be a good offensive defensemen, but he's big and kinda weak physically from what i've seen.

 

[stazza18]

It's no even as if Montoya played much better than Halak in his WJC career though and Halak has been more dominating at the AHL (Halak has 9 shutouts in 41 games for thats dominating) level than Montoya so why shouldn't he be top 10?

The only difference at the WJC was the team in front of the goalie. In th A last year the bulldogs were the youngest team this year Hartford is and Bulldogs 3rd youngest so the teams are comparable. Not saying Montoya isn't a top 15 prospect its just Halak has been better than or as good as him in the last two years.

Is Halak considered a better prospect than Price too?

 

[chlebak]

I cant believe Perttu Lindgren isnt TOP50. I know he had weak start of season, but now he is amazing again.

 

[orcatown]

Ouch - I see Franson a lot and can't believe how high he is ranked here. Not sure that Blum isn't the better prospect.

 

[nanzenkills]

I agree with the general consensus here on the defenseman debate. Franson is overrated on this list, and Parent is going to end up underrated (there is no sensible way that he is in the top 10). I would have put both of them somewhere in the bottom half of the top 50, and I think I would have had them in similar spots.

I don't have a problem with the Montoya/Price rankings. Personally, I like Price a little bit better than Montoya, but they are close enough (and ranked closed enough on this list) so that I don't have any kind of problem with it. And I do think Rask is better than both of them, so Rask in the top 10 works for me.

 

[stazza18]

I agree with the general consensus here on the defenseman debate. Franson is overrated on this list, and Parent is going to end up underrated (there is no sensible way that he is in the top 10). I would have put both of them somewhere in the bottom half of the top 50, and I think I would have had them in similar spots.

I don't have a problem with the Montoya/Price rankings. Personally, I like Price a little bit better than Montoya, but they are close enough (and ranked closed enough on this list) so that I don't have any kind of problem with it. And I do think Rask is better than both of them, so Rask in the top 10 works for me.

Think from a Flyer fan perspective, I'm a bit shocked that Downie and Giroux moved up that much. I thought Parent would be higher then both.

 

[wedge]

for the first time, I prefer the hockey news list...