Hockey Invented In England ... Not Canada

[Canadiens1958]

Example

But in the source originally quoted the writer was referring I believe to a certain stage in the development of the French tongue:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moyen_français

Gary

The example further down taken from Gargantua shows the drift to populist or modern usage which tends to reflect middle class expressions.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Hookee

The authors explain this with the idea that the 1527 reference to "hockie" should not be rendered as "hockey" but as "hooky", meaning simply hooked. So they were referring to hooked sticks, not hockey sticks.

Moreover, the Galway statute seems to be banning hurling, and used that word. So it's a prohibition against hurling using hooked sticks and a ball.

This makes a good deal of sense given that otherwise we would have a 1527 reference to hockey, and then a period of over 200 years before it's used again to describe a game called hockey.

And it's surely not a coincidence that in the mid-1700s, when hockey begins to be used to describe the game in the London area, the term bandy ceases to be used there.

Close. Consider "hookee" as the object being hooked. Strikee is the object being struck, etc. Old English.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Puck/Bung - the Why.

Puck / bung and other description for the projectile being used.

The what, the when, the where, the how have been covered. What about the why?

Why was a non spherical projectile used instead of a ball?. Simply kids or players did not have a ball at hand - kids in Canada were known to use frozen "road apples", chunks of ice or solid snow, whatever was at hand if a puck or a ball was not at hand.

 

[Gary Gillman]

Close. Consider "hookee" as the object being hooked. Strikee is the object being struck, etc. Old English.

Both interesting theories but I don't buy it. The lapse of time between recorded appearances can be explained by two factors: first, how often is anything of a non-"official" nature for centuries, as sport, remarked upon or discussed especially in a time when the activity was frowned upon as possibly leading to disorder (as soccer/football can to this day) and/or a challenge to organized religion? Even in Galway it was mentioned only because the game became the object of the law. By the 1700's-1800's, as part of an Enlightenment pattern you start to see games discussed seriously, same thing in France. In effect they became the object of social history but it took centuries for this way of thinking about it to emerge.

Also, we know that terminology varied as indeed in any sub-culture, where different terms can be used to mean the same thing. This is especially so before a standard set of rules emerged for hockey - and before spelling was standardized even for standard English. Hockey could have different spellings under these conditions, just as hurly/hurling/horling did. Hocky as a variant is recorded too.

It makes sense (to me) that a name for the stick became, in time, applied to the game - and whether from hook or hocquet seems a distinction without a difference - and displaced other names such as bandy ball and hurly. And no question the 1527 law is calling the sport hurly but it is calling the main implement used a hockey stick.

Why the name of the stick became applied to the sport is hard to say, habit, maybe a way to differentiate the game as played in England, or as played around London by different classes than in the Gaelic lands, or just happenstance of some kind, explains it.


Gary

 

[Iain Fyffe]

Both interesting theories but I don't buy it. The lapse of time between recorded appearances can be explained by two factors: first, how often is anything of a non-"official" nature for centuries, as sport, remarked upon or discussed especially in a time when the activity was frowned upon as possibly leading to disorder (as soccer/football can to this day) and/or a challenge to organized religion?

The game was referred to before the mid-1750s. But it was called bandy rather than hockey. The term hockey replaced the term bandy in the London area it seems.

 

[Gary Gillman]

The game was referred to before the mid-1750s. But it was called bandy rather than hockey. The term hockey replaced the term bandy in the London area it seems.

I understand but surely there are few references to the game of any kind in this long period. Also, I'd guess the bandy players called their stick a hockey stick and finally the name of the stick became applied to the game. It might have been at least in England, a semi-slang word for a long time, like mitt for glove in baseball, say.

I'd accept that the object handled by the stick, ball, bung, and puck, finally, was the hockey if a plausible etymology would support this. But what would this be? The 1527 law was satisfied with ball. The "ee" idea would seem more applicable to persons, not things: retiree, trustee, devotee, etc. Anyway the 1527 law uses the term ball, so hockie surely had to mean something else. The shape of the stick seems ineluctably to lead to hook and especially cognate terms such as hocquet since its very pronunciation accords with that of hockey.

Gary

 

[Killion]

Puck / bung and other description for the projectile being used.

The what, the when, the where, the how have been covered. What about the why?

Why was a non spherical projectile used instead of a ball?. Simply kids or players did not have a ball at hand - kids in Canada were known to use frozen "road apples", chunks of ice or solid snow, whatever was at hand if a puck or a ball was not at hand.

.... you'll recall I believe at the Montreal Victoria Rink they decided to use a wooden puck instead of a ball as the spectators were getting beaned with some frequency. With just the short dasher boards, a ball constantly going out of play, stoppages in the game.... Ive no idea what kind of a ball nor size they mightve been using nor if it was "standardized" or what (?). If your just playing recreational pickup as seems the case pre-Montreal, basically shinny and you dont have a ball then sure, just about anything small & hard enough to withstand being whacked around would suffice. Really just as we did as kids when someone wildly would take a shot with the only puck we had on hand tens of dozens of yards off out into 4' of snow or 10' drifts. Almost like looking for a needle in a haystack at times. Vanished through a portal into another dimension. So the guy who did that, he goes home & gets another, meanwhile your playing with ice blocks or pine cones, muskrat, beaver, horse or cow droppings, whatevers handy. Playing with a ball, I cant ever remember doing that on skates. Wasnt what Id even call "real hockey". On the road yes, tennis balls. But not on ice. In fact I recall one of the manufacturers in the 60's coming out with a lighter weight puck with inset & exposed ball-bearings designed for road hockey. Completely useless. Slow as Molasses in June. Primitive version of the much advanced & improved Roller Hockey Puck.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

Also, I'd guess the bandy players called their stick a hockey stick and finally the name of the stick became applied to the game.

Quite the opposite - we have references to the stick being called a bandy. Sometimes a bandy stick, sometimes just a bandy.

I'd accept that the object handled by the stick, ball, bung, and puck, finally, was the hockey if a plausible etymology would support this.

We have direct references to the object of play being referred to as the hockey, not the sticks, so whether or not you think there's etymology to support it, it's right there.

 

[Theokritos]

The authors explain this with the idea that the 1527 reference to "hockie" should not be rendered as "hockey" but as "hooky", meaning simply hooked. So they were referring to hooked sticks, not hockey sticks.

That's as good an explanation as the hoquet hypothesis, in fact even better because it is simpler. It's not depending on the french connection, it leaves out that intermediate step. Whether it is right is another question, but for now I accept this idea as the one that has the edge.

The most deceptive factor in this issue is the similarity of the english and the french terms. hook -> hooked stick / hoc (meaning: hook) -> hoquet (meaning: hooked stick). I'm not an expert, but it's worth considering whether this similarity is coincidental or a result of common Germanic ancestry of "hook" and "hoc".

Moreover, the Galway statute seems to be banning hurling, and used that word. So it's a prohibition against hurling using hooked sticks and a ball.

This makes a good deal of sense given that otherwise we would have a 1527 reference to hockey, and then a period of over 200 years before it's used again to describe a game called hockey.

Makes sense indeed. The question is: where does the 18th century term hockey come from then?

EDIT:
Missed the following sentence: "They propose another possible derivation, hack, which refers to a type of ale since it was about that time cork bungs began to be used instead of wooden balls." So that would be the explanation. Will have to read to book to decide whether they make a convincing case.

 

[Gary Gillman]

Quite the opposite - we have references to the stick being called a bandy. Sometimes a bandy stick, sometimes just a bandy.


We have direct references to the object of play being referred to as the hockey, not the sticks, so whether or not you think there's etymology to support it, it's right there.

But later (post-1527), English players may have called the stick a hockey stick. The fact that it is not recorded does not mean they did not: there has to be a connection between the 1527 usage and the 1700's generalization of the term hockey to describe bandy. Official Galway - which wrote the laws - was part of the Anglo-Norman world just as England was after William, it is part of the same system.

The fact of calling the ball the hockey, where there is no other evidence the term relates to anything spherical or used in sport, is neither here nor there IMO. It might have been an abbreviation of "hockey ball", in fact I think this is highly likely.

Gary

 

[Gary Gillman]

That's as good an explanation as the hoquet hypothesis, in fact even better because it is simpler. It's not depending on the french connection, it leaves out that intermediate step. Whether it is right is another question, but for now I accept this idea as the one that has the edge.

The most deceptive factor in this issue is the similarity of the english and the french terms. hook -> hooked stick / hoc (meaning: hook) -> hoquet (meaning: hooked stick). I'm not an expert, but it's worth considering whether this similarity is coincidental or a result of common Germanic ancestry of "hook" and "hoc".



Makes sense indeed. The question is: where does the 18th century term hockey come from then?

EDIT:
Missed the following sentence: "They propose another possible derivation, hack, which refers to a type of ale since it was about that time cork bungs began to be used instead of wooden balls." So that would be the explanation. Will have to read to book to decide whether they make a convincing case.

It's true that hook and hok and hocquet, while variously Anglo-Saxon or French, are similar and share a common root. The root (mentioned in the 2010 Timeline) is an Indo-European word, keg (kind of ironic here, but the h and k are related, they "shift" is the linguistics term, I understand). Lots of words in different languages have a common Indo-European root. But the "ey" ending in hockey to me points to the French word hocquet as being the inspiring term: it was there at the right time more or less, and culturally belongs to the people who implanted themselves as governors and trendsetters in England. If the word came from Anglo-Saxon, why not say "hook-ed stick"? Hooky sounds un-Germanic to me.

Gary

 

[Uncle Rotter]

First instance of usage of the term hockey, or hockey stick, to describe the game or main implement of the sport.

http://sihr.ca/pdfs/1776_Juvenile_Sports_and_Pastimes_Hockey_Johnson.pdf

 

[Gary Gillman]

http://sihr.ca/pdfs/1776_Juvenile_Sports_and_Pastimes_Hockey_Johnson.pdf

Yes, this is the first instance where the game of field hockey is called hockey proper. But the 1527 Galway law banning hurling also refers to the same game as hockey, IMO, because "hockie" in hockie stick must mean, a stick to play hockey! It's an example of two terms to describe the same thing, which is frequent in many areas of human endeavour. It is notable that the 1776 text makes the specific point that hockey probably derives from hurley. This may or may not be true but it shows that they are one and the same game in essence and therefore, a stick to play hockie surely is the same one used to play hurley - and bandy, IMO.

The 1527 text has been cited for a very long time...

Gary

 

[Gary Gillman]

In an 1880's Dictionary of Provincialisms, author William Holloway notes that a variant of bandy, bandy-hoshve, was played in West Sussex and called there "hawkey". He ascribes the term to the crooked turn of the hawk's beak which IMO is wrong (I'm a hocquet acolyte), but it does show that bandy and hockey were in England close and synonymous. One would think in West Sussex the stick was called a hawkey stick. The fact that it is West Sussex, not just any part of an otherwise small county, does remind one how local the games could be even within, let alone amongst, the countries and localism would dictate varying terminology. But the old West Sussex game had to go back before the 1700's, unless it was influenced latterly from London but this is not likely IMO. I wonder if the old hawkey is still played in West Sussex. A very old person, say 85, might have had a gran-dad who played the game in Holloway's time...

The strangeness and complexity of this inquiry is shown by the odd-sounding word "hoshve", it hardly sounds English in fact. There are probably countless strands of very obscure history, social and linguistic, which will never be fully disentangled in this matter.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=HB8...Q&ved=0CDIQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=bandy&f=false

Postscript:

Here is Holloway's take on hawkey:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=HB8...&ved=0CDIQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=hawkey&f=false

The sticks were called here "hawkey-bats", pretty close...

Gary

 

[Iain Fyffe]

But later (post-1527), English players may have called the stick a hockey stick. The fact that it is not recorded does not mean they did not:

They may well have, but such a possibility cannot trump the actual references to the stick being called a bandy. Otherwise we can override any written evidence by suggesting something else might have been the case.

there has to be a connection between the 1527 usage and the 1700's generalization of the term hockey to describe bandy.

No, there does not have to be a connection. It could simply be a coincidence.

Official Galway - which wrote the laws - was part of the Anglo-Norman world just as England was after William, it is part of the same system.

Sorry, isn't the Galway Statute from the city of Galway, in Ireland? It does refer to hurling, after all. If so, this increases the chance of coincidence since "hockey" only replaced the term bandy in the London area, in other places the term bandy remained.

The fact of calling the ball the hockey, where there is no other evidence the term relates to anything spherical or used in sport, is neither here nor there IMO. It might have been an abbreviation of "hockey ball", in fact I think this is highly likely.

It seems they only began using the term hockey to describe the object of play when they started using bungs instead of a ball.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

The 1527 text has been cited for a very long time...

It has...generally omitting the part where it refers to hurling.

 

[Killion]

The strangeness and complexity of this inquiry is shown by the odd-sounding word "hoshve", it hardly sounds English in fact. There are probably countless strands of very obscure history, social and linguistic, which will never be fully disentangled in this matter.

The lexicon in old West Sussex was strangely transmuted specifically with the letters 'H' & 'W' with 'h' often aspirated where it shouldnt be & omitted entirely where it should be giving it a distinct Sussex curl or roll if you will in pronunciation. For example "wicious vimen" which we would pronounce & obviously write as "vicious women". Most of the verbiage in Sussex is of French origin so yes I agree with your belief that hoquet became hockey, stations along the way including hawkey & Id bet hoshve which was seriously corrupted & mangled by the peculiarities & eccentricities of the Sussex dialect. Clearly Bandy-Hoshve is a game whereby two opposing teams players each are carrying a curved stick & yes, goes well back in time before the 1880 dates listed, and it would only make sense that it would have to go back by several centuries.

 

[Gary Gillman]

They may well have, but such a possibility cannot trump the actual references to the stick being called a bandy. Otherwise we can override any written evidence by suggesting something else might have been the case.


No, there does not have to be a connection. It could simply be a coincidence.


Sorry, isn't the Galway Statute from the city of Galway, in Ireland? It does refer to hurling, after all. If so, this increases the chance of coincidence since "hockey" only replaced the term bandy in the London area, in other places the term bandy remained.


It seems they only began using the term hockey to describe the object of play when they started using bungs instead of a ball.

A lot of where we differ is in degree/interpretation, but I've pointed out now that hawkey-bats were known in West Sussex. A form of bandy was played in the same area, with this bat, called hawkey. Not London. While no origin dates were given, due in part to the strange spelling, I am satisfied that hawkey was very old in this part of England.

Gary

 

[Gary Gillman]

It has...generally omitting the part where it refers to hurling.

But isn't horlinge used as a verb in that line…? Or - I'm not certain of the correct grammatical word for it - but it's not a noun there. The game is not called hurling there as such. Rather, the game is described.

Gary

 

[Gary Gillman]

I've done some further rooting around, bandy had a variant known as bandy-hoshoe, and the odd spelling of the variant in Holloway that he said was called hawkey in West Sussex is clearly that bandy-hoshoe. They ascribe it to horseshoe because an empty hoof was used to encase the lower part of the stick, either that or the curved shape reminded people of a horseshoe. The game was known in Norfolk and Suffolk as well under this variant spelling and some sources state hawkey was too. It's hard to pin it all down just using online searching, but again I'd think hawkey has to go back a long way in parts of England, if bandy-hoshoe does, hawkey must as well, IMO. Interesting too that Sussex is right across from Normandy and the Normans were well implanted there after the fighting. Of course Galway is far away but was founded by early migrating Anglo-Normans. It's all very interesting… will be reading the book quite soon as well.

Gary

 

[Killion]

It's all very interesting… will be reading the book quite soon as well.

... yes, its is a fascinating topic & you seem quite taken with it, making plenty of great contributions.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

A lot of where we differ is in degree/interpretation, but I've pointed out now that hawkey-bats were known in West Sussex. A form of bandy was played in the same area, with this bat, called hawkey. Not London.

West Sussex is not far from London (less than 70 km), and your reference is from the 1880s, over a hundred years after the term hockey replaced bandy in that part of England.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

But isn't horlinge used as a verb in that line…? Or - I'm not certain of the correct grammatical word for it - but it's not a noun there. The game is not called hurling there as such. Rather, the game is described.

In fact it's unclear. It could be referring to the specific game of hurling, or it could simply be the verb to hurl. Considering the reference comes from Ireland, however, suggests the former is probably more likely.

 

[jkrx]

Hockey as a sport was invented in Europe but variations of it has been played all over the world.

the late 19th century version that was played in Canada was a canadian (as a country) invention made by european immigrants.

The hockey we see today is a global effort of developing the game.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

I've just posted something relevant to this discussion in a new thread, here.