Hitting the reset button

[meangene]

I was reading Greiss's comments about the atmosphere at Consol and Pens fans having meltdowns because of it, and it just made me sad. I feel like every year it's getting less and less fun to be a Pens fan. For every big trade and high-profile move there seems to be an equal amount of negativity coming from some other aspect of the team.

Just feels like everything that used to be awesome about rooting for the Pens is now a source of constant strife. Young players we once looked at with bright eyes are now viewed in a jaded cynical light. A classic old building has been replaced by a more sterile and expensive substitute. By February, Pessimism has replaced optimism. Diehard fans have become casual followers simply because they can't stand the circus anymore.

Sometimes I want them to blow the team up just so there's something new to talk about. A lot of Pens fans in general have gone stale, and we need a legitimate shock to the system to get us back to where we were less than a decade ago. It legitimately feels like a chore to be a Pens fan sometimes.

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[IcedCapp]

The players don't have to change, but the owners, GMs, and coaches do. And those who are brought in need to RUN THE TEAM and make it very clear who manages and who plays.

 

[cajal]

Maybe Crosby really does have the "don't cross me or I'll tell my dad (Lemieux)" card to play, and many always assumed that to be true to some degree.

If that card counts for keeping the corps of Kunitz on his line forever, then everything from the owner on down needs to change. I just hope that their solution isn't to trade Malkin or any other asinine roster moves if things really hit the skids.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

I agree. I'll always love the Pens but my level of caring has really dipped over the past few years.

Every year it's the same **** in a different pile or the same square pegs in round holes nonsense.

 

[sf expat71]

Maybe Crosby really does have the "don't cross me or I'll tell my dad (Lemieux)" card to play, and many always assumed that to be true to some degree.

If that card counts for keeping the corps of Kunitz on his line forever, then everything from the owner on down needs to change. I just hope that their solution isn't to trade Malkin or any other asinine roster moves if things really hit the skids.

Or maybe Crosby doesn't have that card, or if he does, he would never play it. Not saying there doesn't need to be changes, including taking some players out of their comfort zone for team betterment, but I am not a fan of this kind of speculation without something more than a maybe from (no offense to you, btw) a non-source.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

I've often wondered over the past few years if this is Khama for getting so much so soon?

- Getting Crosby and Geno
- Two back to back SFC appearances
- Winning a cup before the likes of Chicago

 

[Joejosh999]

I never thought Crosby

Would be one to insist Kunitz be on his line.
But the Olympics really gave me pause.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Maybe Crosby really does have the "don't cross me or I'll tell my dad (Lemieux)" card to play, and many always assumed that to be true to some degree.

If that card counts for keeping the corps of Kunitz on his line forever, then everything from the owner on down needs to change. I just hope that their solution isn't to trade Malkin or any other asinine roster moves if things really hit the skids.

Would be one to insist Kunitz be in his line.
But the Olympics really gave me pause.

I think we need to draw a clear line of distinction between Crosby insisting and Crosby demanding. Coaches will get a top players input on his preferences. So ya, it's posible, even likely Crosby said he wants to play with Kunitz. That doesn't mean he demands it or makes threats, etc.

I've said before he is a second cousin to my wife (she actually never met him) and while I did have two separate chances to meet him and turned it down, I have spoken to people who know him well.

From what I was told about what he is really like, there is about zero chance he demands anything, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have preferences and his own opinions.

 

[cajal]

Or maybe Crosby doesn't have that card, or if he does, he would never play it. Not saying there doesn't need to be changes, including taking some players out of their comfort zone for team betterment, but I am not a fan of this kind of speculation without something more than a maybe from (no offense to you, btw) a non-source.

This is based on a tweet from Josh Yohe this afternoon. Maybe it's just that Crosby has that pull all on his own. Yohe intimated Kunitz is on his line because Crosby wants it that way.

If that has anything to do with Lemieux, I don't know. That's why I said maybe.
No offense taken.


I personally think that if he did have that "card" he would never play it.

 

[sf expat71]

This is based on a tweet from Josh Yohe this afternoon. Maybe it's just that Crosby has that pull all on his own. Yohe intimated Kunitz is on his line because Crosby wants it that way.

If that has anything to do with Lemieux, I don't know. That's why I said maybe.
No offense taken.

I saw that tweet earlier, but I chalked it up to another example of the local media's homerism going to 11. I take what that dude says with an Olympus-sized grain of salt.

 

[cajal]

I saw that tweet earlier, but I chalked it up to another example of the local media's homerism going to 11. I take what that dude says with an Olympus-sized grain of salt.

I do as well, but that was striking because it's the first member of the media who comes out and says Crosby is calling that shot.

I think the media in everything has near zero credibility, but take that for what it's worth.

 

[ilovealistair]

I agree with the above and what has been previously stated in other threads - he is a creature of habit and likes the known. That being said, he is an adullt and a pro athlete. They traded Armstrong, Whitney and Talbot, all friends of Sid. He got over it, just like he will if they ever get rid of Kunitz. A player will have things they like, but it's on the coach to say 'I get you like him, but we think x will work better.'

If anything, I wish we had a better coach. Coming into the fandom pre-Sochi, I don't know how MT was but I do remember some of DB and this guy. All the difference I can see is effort - neither knew what they were doing, but at least under DB they at least acted like they gave a damn.

Someone else said it - why didn't they promote an assistant coach/ahl coach if they were gonnapick a rookie anyway? in fact, why does management have such a hard on for vets but love rookie coaches?

In any case, I hope I get to see Malkin-Kessel at some point.

 

[plaidchuck]

Greiss sure didn't help that atmosphere. Dude was a sieve.

 

[#66]

I think we need to draw a clear line of distinction between Crosby insisting and Crosby demanding. Coaches will get a top players input on his preferences. So ya, it's posible, even likely Crosby said he wants to play with Kunitz. That doesn't mean he demands it or makes threats, etc.

I've said before he is a second cousin to my wife (she actually never met him) and while I did have two separate chances to meet him and turned it down, I have spoken to people who know him well.

From what I was told about what he is really like, there is about zero chance he demands anything, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have preferences and his own opinions.

Yeah... I got to see him when the camera's are off. He may be a SOB on the ice... he's supposed to be but he is top notch off of it. Everything you want a superstar to be. The problem isn't Crosby or Malkin.

The Pens need to bring in quality. I think Rutherford is still trying to undo Shero's mess. IMO he has done a lot of good including a great draft last year.

I'm actually OK with the holes in the team right now. Crosby and Malkin finally have some wingers with skill, even if they need their lines to be tinkered with. The D is bad but two middle defensemen are very getable. Give the team time to find chemistry and fix itself. IMO they're moving in the right direction and that's the first step.

 

[cajal]

I think people are just trying to understand why so many bizarre team decisions are being made.

Winning covers up some of that curiosity, but when the Pens stop being a winning team, questions arise (in general).

Bad teams win, good teams lose... but this team has been playing badly for quite some time.

 

[SEALBound]

I think owners in the beginning (starting in 2005) knew the team was going to be a cash cow for a decade. Now that popularity and the probability of cups is declining, they are off setting by jacking up rates across the board.

They just aren't that fun to watch anymore to be honest...course there are other teams this happens to:

Look at Thornton and Marleau in SJ. Powerhouse team that eventually faded away.

Look at Ovechkin couple years ago. Clearly hit a slump and they went through a couple coaches while underperforming.

Look at the Flyers. Had it all, pissed it all away.

There is something to be said for youth. All the teams that are winning right now are the young hungry guys. We've been an elite team with elite talent for years...winning came natural and relatively easy to us. Now that things are getting harder, it's becoming harder (lol).

Think about this old saying:

Good times breed weak people. Weak people create tough times. Tough times breed strong people. Strong people create good times.

...wanna take a guess where we are in that cycle?

Putting so much blind faith into Ray Shero and Dan Bylsma is really rearing it's ugly head, yet again. That regime has damaged this team in a way that, quite honestly, may be un-recoverable. By the time we are ridded of Scuds, Kunitz, and Duper, we may not have the young talent based needed to step in and fill the gaps. Yes, Sprong, Bennett, Sundy, Pouliot...but I just don't have that confidence in them. We won a cup on the shoulders of a young and very hungry Sid and Malkin. Behind that was an elite 3C in Jordan Staal and supporting cast that complimented everyone well. Now it's a collection of buddy buddies. Not to mention a AGM yearning for the good ol days that made a devestating trade that has shifted the balance of the defense from Good/serviceable to a ****ing joke.

To fix it they have to hurt feeling. I always went on and on and on about "the summer of hurt feelings" in order to fix it...but it didn't happen...and it won't happen.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Every year it is getting less and less fun to be a Pens fan. The organization continues to make the same idiotic decisions to **** themselves over and start 3 steps behind, the window is closing rapidly for Sid and Geno to continue to be all-world players who can carry us to Cups, and the team hasn't had a shred of heart for yeeeeears.

It's easy to hate this team; from the front office, to the coaching staff, to the nonchalant/lazy/complacent demeanor of the team on the ice, down to several players (Kunitz, Scuderi, Lovejoy).

 

[Winger for Hire]

Have we been auto saving? I think our last manual save was after the 2011 season. If we push the button, can we go back to then and start from there?

 

[tom_servo]

Every year it is getting less and less fun to be a Pens fan. The organization continues to make the same idiotic decisions to **** themselves over and start 3 steps behind, the window is closing rapidly for Sid and Geno to continue to be all-world players who can carry us to Cups, and the team hasn't had a shred of heart for yeeeeears.

It's easy to hate this team; from the front office, to the coaching staff, to the nonchalant/lazy/complacent demeanor of the team on the ice, down to several players (Kunitz, Scuderi, Lovejoy).

But we've got some Good Dudes on the team. How can ya not get behind 'em.

 

[Verbeek]

Can we hit a reset button that allows the Pens to draft Ovechkin instead? You know, just to see how it plays out. We keep Malkin tho too somehow.

 

[Darth Vitale]

There's a confluence of factors at play.

Part of it is spoiled, younger fans who never went through any dark years and consequently have a sense of entitlement after the two Cup runs, and thus complain a lot when anything doesn't go according to script.

Part of it is mismanagement (not all the complaints are invalid).

Part of it is a deadzone corporatized arena full of suits and their bored housewives (not unique to Pittsburgh by a long shot).

Part of it is just taking stuff too seriously. It's sports. Like football, it doesn't mean jack in the grand scheme of things yet people tend to get so caught up in it (especially football) that they allow their moods and attitudes to be affected by a sporting contest that has nothing to do with them.

So maybe a little perspective, a little more aggressive cheering at games (and F the lady with the 10 year old who gives you the evil eye – just keep it clean and she has zero basis for complaint / getting you kicked out), and a little less analyzing what is admittedly bad management much of the time. That could turn things around somewhat.

I dunno. I can see that it's not as fun but I think sports in general now tends to get over-analyzed and over-worshipped. It's no longer just a reason to cheer and blow off steam. It's like an identity statement or something. People need to stop taking it personal. You don't like something enough, vote with your wallet and walk away for a year. That's what I did last year pretty much. I was on here way more than I watched games because I wasn't going to pay for it. Actually had the effect of relaxing me a bit / worried about wins and losses less. Even if I am a dark lord.

 

[Til the End of Time]

i also wonder what is the average age of the typical pens fan that is disenchanted with the team. in my early twenties watching every game was hugely important to me and mattered a great deal to me. now in my late twenties, real life ish makes penguins hockey seem like a juvenile past-time. i think a decent number of pens fans here are in my age range and are gradually growing out of die-hard hockey.

 

[Darth Vitale]

It is generally true that many adults around age 30 lose that "my team lost; I want to punch something" reflex that creates holes in dry wall or worse, arrests. But I think many would still get pretty revved up if their team was competitive and going into the playoffs or whatnot.

Age just smooths out the immature edges for most people, rather than growing out of it entirely. Although let's be real; there's enough ****ed up **** in the world now compared to prior generations that some people with perspective do walk away from sports and the hero worship stuff entirely. Not enough minutes in their short lives for pro sports. I get that although I haven't yet hit the point where I can walk away from hockey.

I already have walked away from every other major sport, especially football. There's no sense of balance there, no perspective from many fans. Far worse than some of the crap we see in here.

 

[66-30-33]

It seems everything involving this team is completly stupid. Everything that seems second nature, or "easy" is the reverse with everything about this team. Let easy things be easy, and stop with the insanity way of things. Things that do not work over and over and over and over again WONT magically work all of a sudden. Untill the team clears this from them it wont stop. Why is Kunitz top line LW when he's not earned it? Perron trained his ass off, gets put on his off wing on the 4th line, Scuderi keeps playing and logging 20 minutes...things like this. Everything about this team is stupid.

 

[66-30-33]

i also wonder what is the average age of the typical pens fan that is disenchanted with the team. in my early twenties watching every game was hugely important to me and mattered a great deal to me. now in my late twenties, real life ish makes penguins hockey seem like a juvenile past-time. i think a decent number of pens fans here are in my age range and are gradually growing out of die-hard hockey.

31 here.