Line Combos: Hitchcock changing things up; Morrow up to 2nd, Roy to 4th

[oPlaiD]

Love the new line with Roy.

I felt like playing with Morrow and Stewart was really limiting the impact Roy had on the ice - Morrow's feet were too slow to keep up with Roy at this point in his career, and Stewart's brain was too slow to keep up. With MPS and Tarasenko Roy will not have those problems.

Schwartz should help maximize Stewart's production since him and Berglund can both retrieve the puck and give Stewart opportunities to shoot, unlike on the Roy/Morrow line where it wasn't likely they'd win many battles in the zone.

The defensive pairing switches were long overdue. The Polak/Jackman pairing may be physically imposing but they just were not effective; too often we were hemmed in our zone when they were on the ice.

Does anyone else wonder about splitting up Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo? Then we could have 1 of them on the ice for 80% of the game, kind of like when we had MacInnis and Pronger. Granted the two are not as strong as those guys, but it could be beneficial in some cases to have Jackman with Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester with Shattenkirk.

Just a thought. The current top pairing has obviously dominated games when they're on the ice and there's little reason to break them up, especially against teams with top heavy first lines.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Love the new line with Roy.

I felt like playing with Morrow and Stewart was really limiting the impact Roy had on the ice - Morrow's feet were too slow to keep up with Roy at this point in his career, and Stewart's brain was too slow to keep up. With MPS and Tarasenko Roy will not have those problems.

Schwartz should help maximize Stewart's production since him and Berglund can both retrieve the puck and give Stewart opportunities to shoot, unlike on the Roy/Morrow line where it wasn't likely they'd win many battles in the zone.

The defensive pairing switches were long overdue. The Polak/Jackman pairing may be physically imposing but they just were not effective; too often we were hemmed in our zone when they were on the ice.

Does anyone else wonder about splitting up Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo? Then we could have 1 of them on the ice for 80% of the game, kind of like when we had MacInnis and Pronger. Granted the two are not as strong as those guys, but it could be beneficial in some cases to have Jackman with Pietrangelo and Bouwmeester with Shattenkirk.

Just a thought. The current top pairing has obviously dominated games when they're on the ice and there's little reason to break them up, especially against teams with top heavy first lines.

Blues get Roy to give Stewart a play-making center. He doesn't produce offensively and then Hitchcock changes the lines citing, "Stewart needs to play in front of the net, not going to score on one and done break-outs."

Now it appears Roy is going to be more effective without Stewart on his wing (and we all concede that Morrow just doesn't have that kind of speed). The common denominator is Stewart. The coach seems to be having trouble figuring out how to spark his production and figuring out where to put him.

I see effort there, and a lot more play within the system (better defensively and keeping the cycle alive), but if this is all he offers its not going to be enough to keep Stewart. I'll be very interested over the next 5 games how the Blues look. I could totally see Stewart packaged in a trade later in the year. Vanek?

 

[Captain Creampuff]

I'd rather keep JBo and Petro together. They just look too good together and have been a big reason why we've been winning games. Their ability to move the puck up the ice is unmatched by any other pairing in the NHL.

 

[1989]

Hi guys, Flames fan here
Tried asking this in the GDT but didn't get a response:

How did Paajarvi perform? I saw that he was slated to get some top-six time tonight at the beginning of the game; was he still in the top six after three periods?
Did he look out of place, create any chances, or was he a giveaway machine?
How was his conditioning?

Any insight appreciated!

 

[Darth Vitale]

Blues get Roy to give Stewart a play-making center. He doesn't produce offensively and then Hitchcock changes the lines citing, "Stewart needs to play in front of the net, not going to score on one and done break-outs."

Now it appears Roy is going to be more effective without Stewart on his wing (and we all concede that Morrow just doesn't have that kind of speed). The common denominator is Stewart. The coach seems to be having trouble figuring out how to spark his production and figuring out where to put him.

I see effort there, and a lot more play within the system (better defensively and keeping the cycle alive), but if this is all he offers its not going to be enough to keep Stewart. I'll be very interested over the next 5 games how the Blues look. I could totally see Stewart packaged in a trade later in the year. Vanek?

Stewart seems to be saddling himself with the "engima" label. Talent's there, size is there but it seems like he's not able to carry the play when needed. He does need a talented C (Roy may be too streaky in that regard -- he's always been a hot and cold type player) to get the most from his game.

I know a lot of fans in Pittsburgh have a jones for Stewart and he does fit Bylsma's system which uses a lot of board play and cycling. I'm sure Crosby wouldn't mind as long as his work habits are good (any complaints there since he's been in STL)? Personally I'm not sure I'd want to trade for the guy. Depends on the cost. You don't really need D of Niskanen or "good prospect" status (which is what we have to offer) so probably not great trade partners.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I see effort there, and a lot more play within the system (better defensively and keeping the cycle alive), but if this is all he offers its not going to be enough to keep Stewart. I'll be very interested over the next 5 games how the Blues look. I could totally see Stewart packaged in a trade later in the year. Vanek?

I really think we could make a move for Vanek at the deadline if Schwartz or Tarasenko don't breakout into consistent producers. If we do though, our ownership has to spend to the cap.

It would be an easy way to make a really good 2nd line for the playoffs since we know Roy and Vanek work well together, it would just be interesting to see how things would work for next season. Sobotka would have to become a full-time top 9 player IMO to make salaries work.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Stewart seems to be saddling himself with the "engima" label. Talent's there, size is there but it seems like he's not able to carry the play when needed. He does need a talented C (Roy may be too streaky in that regard -- he's always been a hot and cold type player) to get the most from his game.

I know a lot of fans in Pittsburgh have a jones for Stewart and he does fit Bylsma's system which uses a lot of board play and cycling. I'm sure Crosby wouldn't mind as long as his work habits are good (any complaints there since he's been in STL)? Personally I'm not sure I'd want to trade for the guy. Depends on the cost. You don't really need D of Niskanen or "good prospect" status (which is what we have to offer) so probably not great trade partners.

2 seasons ago there were a couple comments about his conditioning, but no complaints regarding his effort. By all accounts he works hard in practice, etc. My read is that he tries, but didn't really know what to do (including off-season training). The past 2 seasons his fitness level is no obstacle, and he seems to really have worked hard to learn the system.

I'm not convinced he'd be great in the Penguins system, or at least not a lot better than with the Blues....but having a great center will make almost any forward look better.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Despite the frustrating loss last night (at least they battled back to tie it up) I do like the early signs from the changed up forwards lines.

I continue to see +/- with the defensive lines. They move the puck a bit better now, but less punishing of the opposition.

Overall, I do think the Blues breakout looked better. They moved it more fluidly and more evidence of chemistry between players. They looked a bit rusty in terms of executing the attack though (and a lot of credit to Vancouver playing a defensive style ala their new coach). I think this is going to be the team to come out of the Pacific (I think that San Jose may fade) or at least be the 2nd place team, in Vancouver.

 

[Alklha]

Stewart seems to be saddling himself with the "engima" label. Talent's there, size is there but it seems like he's not able to carry the play when needed. He does need a talented C (Roy may be too streaky in that regard -- he's always been a hot and cold type player) to get the most from his game.

I know a lot of fans in Pittsburgh have a jones for Stewart and he does fit Bylsma's system which uses a lot of board play and cycling. I'm sure Crosby wouldn't mind as long as his work habits are good (any complaints there since he's been in STL)? Personally I'm not sure I'd want to trade for the guy. Depends on the cost. You don't really need D of Niskanen or "good prospect" status (which is what we have to offer) so probably not great trade partners.

Stewart would only really be moved for an upgrade or to make way for one of out young wingers, the latter is only going to happen in the off season. I think he'd do well in Pittsburgh, he has no attitude or work ethic issues... just his overall game does rely on others. He'll hit a hot streak soon enough and people will get all excited again.

I doubt we'd be good trading partners. We'd likely want a centre coming back, either young guy already in the NHL or a promising prospect.

I really think we could make a move for Vanek at the deadline if Schwartz or Tarasenko don't breakout into consistent producers. If we do though, our ownership has to spend to the cap.

It would be an easy way to make a really good 2nd line for the playoffs since we know Roy and Vanek work well together, it would just be interesting to see how things would work for next season. Sobotka would have to become a full-time top 9 player IMO to make salaries work.

We are over budget this season, it will be interesting to see if we go deep into the playoffs if our budget will be increased.

Someone like Vanek might be workable, but it depends on what he is looking for in the summer. I know someone posted (frostyflo, I think)in the summer that he was willing to take less money on his next contract to be in a good situation.

If we could get Vanek then I wouldn't be completely surprised if we looked at moving Stewart and Oshie. I know Oshie fits the system, but we'd have Vanek, Schwartz and Pääjärvi on the left and Steen, Tarasenko and Jaškin on the right.

As for Sobotka, I'd happily give him a 6 year contract today.

 

[bleedblue1223]

We are over budget this season, it will be interesting to see if we go deep into the playoffs if our budget will be increased.

Someone like Vanek might be workable, but it depends on what he is looking for in the summer. I know someone posted (frostyflo, I think)in the summer that he was willing to take less money on his next contract to be in a good situation.

If we could get Vanek then I wouldn't be completely surprised if we looked at moving Stewart and Oshie. I know Oshie fits the system, but we'd have Vanek, Schwartz and Pääjärvi on the left and Steen, Tarasenko and Jaškin on the right.

Not saying you're wrong, but none of us know what the budget is and what the projected budget would be for next season.

A Vanek trade would make a top 9 like this for next season IMO.

Steen-Backes-Oshie
Vanek-Berglund/Roy/UFA center-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Sobotka-Jaskin

Schwartz could get more of a look at center or maybe you try and find a way to get Schwartz on the 2nd line.

With Steen playing a decent amount of shifts at center this season, he could shift to center full time and Schwartz takes his spot as another way to balance up the playing styles.

 

[Alklha]

Not saying you're wrong, but none of us know what the budget is and what the projected budget would be for next season.

A Vanek trade would make a top 9 like this for next season IMO.

Steen-Backes-Oshie
Vanek-Berglund/Roy/UFA center-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Sobotka-Jaskin

Schwartz could get more of a look at center or maybe you try and find a way to get Schwartz on the 2nd line.

True, we could start looking at Schwartz and Sobotka at top-9 centres. If it is Sobotka I'd imagine that it would be at the expense of Berglund, we know we need more playmaking abilities so I'd be surprised if we'd be comfortable with Backes, Berglund & Sobotka down the middle.

When it comes to our budget this season, Armstrong said in an interview a few weeks back that we've exceeded our planned budget for this season. I don't think management has an exact idea of what our budget will be next season, but likely safe to say we won't be keeping up with the potential cap increase.

 

[BlueDream]

Why would Steen be on the right?

Although if we had a Vanek-Roy-Tarasenko line, I think we could get by with having Sobotka on the 3rd. That'd probably be the most dangerous line we have had in the last 10 years. (Or Stastny or whoever in the middle, whatever).

I wouldn't be opposed to moving Oshie or Stewart in a trade like that. Oshie fits this system well, but he really isn't a good goal scorer besides in the shootout.

 

[jay from jersey]

offseason

sign girardi and lundqvist, and never get scored on again

girardi Piet

J Bo Shatty

polack cole

Lundqvist
halak

 

[Darth Vitale]

Heard about Paajarvi. That sucks. So you guys think you'll be looking at a Schwartz - Roy - Tarasenko 2nd line? Potentially lethal... if those three got rolling at the same time they'd be a bear to defend against, although a little on the smallish side so pairing big mobile D against them might work.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Heard about Paajarvi. That sucks. So you guys think you'll be looking at a Schwartz - Roy - Tarasenko 2nd line? Potentially lethal... if those three got rolling at the same time they'd be a bear to defend against, although a little on the smallish side so pairing big mobile D against them might work.

What did you hear? All we know is that he left the game early and will need to be re-evaluated.

 

[LightSoundGeometry*]

i dont know how sobotka gets put on the 4th line ...it just doesnt make any sense ...

 

[Captain Creampuff]

i dont know how sobotka gets put on the 4th line ...it just doesnt make any sense ...

Because that's all he is, a 3rd/4th line energy guy that can step up into the Top 6 if things need to be shaken up. Sobotka is good but he won't ever put up 40+ point seasons.

 

[LightSoundGeometry*]

Because that's all he is, a 3rd/4th line energy guy that can step up into the Top 6 if things need to be shaken up. Sobotka is good but he won't ever put up 40+ point seasons.

I completely disagree ..we couldnt be any further apart in our opinions on soby ..

I would have him on the 2nd line with VT and JS

you see it one way, I see it the other .. I doubt we changed each others mind ..

 

[Captain Creampuff]

His highest point total season was 29 points. I don't have doubts he can hit 35 and POSSIBLY 40 but that's it. Sorry if you think that he is better than a 3rd/4th line guy. He's not better than anyone in our Top 9 when healthy except for maybe Pajaarvi. My post wasn't a knock on Sobotka, I think he's a great player but I think a lot of the more casual Blues fans overrate him.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Personally, I would say that many fans (casual and fanatical) still underrate Sobotka. Sobi may not be one of the 6 most offensively gifted forwards on the team but he's certainly among the top-6 forwards in terms of helping the team win. He's a great two-way player, adds a ton of intangibles, a ton of heart and underrated offense. Hitch seems to agree as Sobi gets the 6th most icetime on the team among forwards - more icetime than Stewie, Roy, Tarasenko, Morrow, Paajarvi, etc. He's simply a gamer that helps you win. He's worth way more than the points he puts up. And regarding his points, one argument is that yes, his career max is 29 pts and thus he's not a top-6 forward but another argument is that if he can score 29 pts while playing a 3rd/4th line role, how many pts would he be able to score if he was consistently paired with more talented players in a 2nd line role? One could argue that he would likely score more points as a result - enough points to be considered good production for a 2nd liner while also contributing the top notch two-way/intangibles game he's known for. He's the type of player you can put anywhere in the lineup an he'll succeed. He's the hockey version of Jose Oquendo and he's one of the most important players for the Blues, even if he does start most games on the 3rd/4th lines.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Well his career high came from when we were decimated with injuries and he was playing with Backes and D'Agostini on the top line, so not all those points came from 3rd/4th line minutes.

 

[PocketNines]

Personally, I would say that many fans (casual and fanatical) still underrate Sobotka. Sobi may not be one of the 6 most offensively gifted forwards on the team but he's certainly among the top-6 forwards in terms of helping the team win. He's a great two-way player, adds a ton of intangibles, a ton of heart and underrated offense. Hitch seems to agree as Sobi gets the 6th most icetime on the team among forwards - more icetime than Stewie, Roy, Tarasenko, Morrow, Paajarvi, etc. He's simply a gamer that helps you win. He's worth way more than the points he puts up. And regarding his points, one argument is that yes, his career max is 29 pts and thus he's not a top-6 forward but another argument is that if he can score 29 pts while playing a 3rd/4th line role, how many pts would he be able to score if he was consistently paired with more talented players in a 2nd line role? One could argue that he would likely score more points as a result - enough points to be considered good production for a 2nd liner while also contributing the top notch two-way/intangibles game he's known for. He's the type of player you can put anywhere in the lineup an he'll succeed. He's the hockey version of Jose Oquendo and he's one of the most important players for the Blues, even if he does start most games on the 3rd/4th lines.

This is one of the best Sobotka comments I've seen. He is exactly the Jose Oquendo of the Blues. He is a guy who helps you win, and if he plays like his start in the playoffs and the Blues DO win, I think seeing him lift the Cup would be one of the most satisfying fan moments possible.

 

[taylord22]

Personally, I would say that many fans (casual and fanatical) still underrate Sobotka. Sobi may not be one of the 6 most offensively gifted forwards on the team but he's certainly among the top-6 forwards in terms of helping the team win. He's a great two-way player, adds a ton of intangibles, a ton of heart and underrated offense. Hitch seems to agree as Sobi gets the 6th most icetime on the team among forwards - more icetime than Stewie, Roy, Tarasenko, Morrow, Paajarvi, etc. He's simply a gamer that helps you win. He's worth way more than the points he puts up. And regarding his points, one argument is that yes, his career max is 29 pts and thus he's not a top-6 forward but another argument is that if he can score 29 pts while playing a 3rd/4th line role, how many pts would he be able to score if he was consistently paired with more talented players in a 2nd line role? One could argue that he would likely score more points as a result - enough points to be considered good production for a 2nd liner while also contributing the top notch two-way/intangibles game he's known for. He's the type of player you can put anywhere in the lineup an he'll succeed. He's the hockey version of Jose Oquendo and he's one of the most important players for the Blues, even if he does start most games on the 3rd/4th lines.

Awesome post. Yes, he did play with Backes on a decimated team — but his game has improved significantly since.

I've said it before: hfboards are far too focused on pedigree. It should come to no surprise that a young player like Sobotka can have accelerated growth in facets of his game. The offensive tools to succeed are there for 9 out of 10 NHL players...offensive success is 75+% mental. This should come to no surprise seeing as our fanbase has experienced the progression of Alex Steen and the regression of Brad Boyes.

His minutes just aren't conducive to seeing numbers translate directly. The improvement can be seen (easily), however.

If you're looking at Sobotka from an eye test perspective game-in and game-out, I don't know how your eyes don't perk at the offensive decisions he has been making. His increased patience with the puck (a mental attribute) is starting to drive his offensive skill-set, which might translate to more production if given room to flourish. If he's not given room to flourish offensively, he'll probably still throw up 30-40ish points. Most offensive players could not put up 40pts playing the minutes he does. That should say something about his talent level.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Personally, I would say that many fans (casual and fanatical) still underrate Sobotka. Sobi may not be one of the 6 most offensively gifted forwards on the team but he's certainly among the top-6 forwards in terms of helping the team win. He's a great two-way player, adds a ton of intangibles, a ton of heart and underrated offense. Hitch seems to agree as Sobi gets the 6th most icetime on the team among forwards - more icetime than Stewie, Roy, Tarasenko, Morrow, Paajarvi, etc. He's simply a gamer that helps you win. He's worth way more than the points he puts up. And regarding his points, one argument is that yes, his career max is 29 pts and thus he's not a top-6 forward but another argument is that if he can score 29 pts while playing a 3rd/4th line role, how many pts would he be able to score if he was consistently paired with more talented players in a 2nd line role? One could argue that he would likely score more points as a result - enough points to be considered good production for a 2nd liner while also contributing the top notch two-way/intangibles game he's known for. He's the type of player you can put anywhere in the lineup an he'll succeed. He's the hockey version of Jose Oquendo and he's one of the most important players for the Blues, even if he does start most games on the 3rd/4th lines.

As a fan of both Sobi and Oquendo, I just fear with Sobi the same as what happened with Oquendo. There came a point where they fell too in love with Oquendo giving him more responsibility than he could handle, and he was overexposed and overmatched. As long as Hitchcock can find that balance with Sobi and his skill set, then he will continue to be successful. Sobi does have limits, but has that Rex Hudler/Jose Oquendo spirit you have to admire.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Personally, I would say that many fans (casual and fanatical) still underrate Sobotka. Sobi may not be one of the 6 most offensively gifted forwards on the team but he's certainly among the top-6 forwards in terms of helping the team win. He's a great two-way player, adds a ton of intangibles, a ton of heart and underrated offense. Hitch seems to agree as Sobi gets the 6th most icetime on the team among forwards - more icetime than Stewie, Roy, Tarasenko, Morrow, Paajarvi, etc. He's simply a gamer that helps you win. He's worth way more than the points he puts up. And regarding his points, one argument is that yes, his career max is 29 pts and thus he's not a top-6 forward but another argument is that if he can score 29 pts while playing a 3rd/4th line role, how many pts would he be able to score if he was consistently paired with more talented players in a 2nd line role? One could argue that he would likely score more points as a result - enough points to be considered good production for a 2nd liner while also contributing the top notch two-way/intangibles game he's known for. He's the type of player you can put anywhere in the lineup an he'll succeed. He's the hockey version of Jose Oquendo and he's one of the most important players for the Blues, even if he does start most games on the 3rd/4th lines.

Kind of vindicates McDonald's comments.