HFBoards Top 32 Defensemen - #3

[stl76]

How many of Ekholm's dzone starts came after an icing? How many of Josi's? How many came after Josi's shift where Josi couldn't be deployed or after a powerplay where Josi wasn't deployed?

There's so much to ozone and dzone starts, it's not just trust in a zone.

I view zone starts as basically a form of valuable ordinal data. People can crap on them all they want (most shifts start on the fly...statistically we can account for zone starts over a large sample...blah blah) and they are not some end all be all statistic, but zone starts provide valuable insight into how a player is utilized.

But this is all beside the point really. Did Josi generally get easier offensive minutes playing with Nashville’s top offensive players? Did he kill penalties? Was he relied on heavily in the dzone playing against opponents top offensive players? I think we both know the answers to these questions.

I don’t hate Josi or anything. The guy has been a top 5-10 dman for a long time, but it seems like a lot of people are seeing his point totals and suddenly overrating him without understanding the context behind those numbers.

 

[triggrman]

I view zone starts as basically a form of valuable ordinal data. People can crap on them all they want (most shifts start on the fly...statistically we can account for zone starts over a large sample...blah blah) and they are not some end all be all statistic, but zone starts provide valuable insight into how a player is utilized.

But this is all beside the point really. Did Josi generally get easier offensive minutes playing with Nashville’s top offensive players? Did he kill penalties? Was he relied on heavily in the dzone playing against opponents top offensive players? I think we both know the answers to these questions.

I don’t hate Josi or anything. The guy has been a top 5-10 dman for a long time, but it seems like a lot of people are seeing his point totals and suddenly overrating him without understanding the context behind those numbers.

Of course your top (and the league's top) offensive defenseman got more of the offensive zone starts, that's just common sense. Also, Ekholm should get more tougher match-ups, he's one of the leagues better defensive defensemen. That doesn't mean Josi wasn't one of the best. In fact he was one of our higher TOI pkers prior to Hynes but you can't argue with Hynes results and 96 points, 10 more than the #2 guy. I guess at 31 years old, you have to start managing time somewhere though.
It will be interesting to see how Fabbro and McDonagh are both used this season, with regards to Ekholm and Josi.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I view zone starts as basically a form of valuable ordinal data. People can crap on them all they want (most shifts start on the fly...statistically we can account for zone starts over a large sample...blah blah) and they are not some end all be all statistic, but zone starts provide valuable insight into how a player is utilized.

But this is all beside the point really. Did Josi generally get easier offensive minutes playing with Nashville’s top offensive players? Did he kill penalties? Was he relied on heavily in the dzone playing against opponents top offensive players? I think we both know the answers to these questions.

I don’t hate Josi or anything. The guy has been a top 5-10 dman for a long time, but it seems like a lot of people are seeing his point totals and suddenly overrating him without understanding the context behind those numbers.

The only issue I have with your argument would be that Josi starts more in the offensive zone because he's one of the best offensive generators in the entire league.

Much like McDavid, why would you waste any of the valuable TOI on defensive zone starts if the player is exceptional offensively. Just like I wouldn't waste Tanev's TOI starting in the OZone, because that's not his strength.

Unlike my own favourite Morgan Rielly, Josi gets OZS not to hide him, but to take advantage of his best traits. Someone like Rielly...well, that's a case where you actually are hiding a player, and this need will sometimes cause problems with our pairings.

I have McAvoy ahead of Josi, and Fox is right there too, but it's not because of ZS's.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Josi, then Fox, then it gets a bit more interesting.

I don't see why John Carlson is the next guy we should be adding.

Dont bother adding John Carlson...that dude should get a vote anytime soon, if at all, in these rankings

This. Not in any top ten vote. If we carry on and go on above 10 we can start talking about Carlson.