Prospect Info: HF Wild Prospect Rankings: #3

[AKL]

Some people might be starting to think that Rossi's upside isn't as high as we once thought. Obviously, this will be a huge season for him to remove any doubts.

Why can't someone make an argument for Faber without talking about Rossi lol, I didn't even vote for Rossi I'm just trying to figure out why Faber is shooting up the list

 

[MuckOG]

Why can't someone make an argument for Faber without talking about Rossi lol, I didn't even vote for Rossi I'm just trying to figure out why Faber is shooting up the list

You keep dismissing Faber's post season play, but for some of us it showed that his ceiling/upside might be higher than we originally thought.

I havent watched Yurov or Khus (as have none of us have outside of a couple of you tube videos and stat watching), so I have no idea as to know what their upside might be....and for that reason, I have them ranked slightly lower.

 

[AKL]

You keep dismissing Faber's post season play, but for some of us it showed that his ceiling/upside might be higher than we originally thought.

I havent watched Yurov or Khus, so I have no idea as to know what their upside.

I'm not dismissing it, I'm just acknowledging that it was 6 games of heavily sheltered play that some people are seemingly putting an outsized amount of weight on.

It was better than the alternative of coming in and giving up a goal every time he was on the ice, but it was still only 6 heavily sheltered games.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Why can't someone make an argument for Faber without talking about Rossi lol, I didn't even vote for Rossi I'm just trying to figure out why Faber is shooting up the list

Because the people previously ahead of him are a real part of the conversation. None of these guys are/have been so elite that they can force their way to a spot regardless, like Bedard can do in Chicago's prospect pool. They all rely on other players doing good/bad/underwhelming/etc.

 

[AKL]

Because the people previously ahead of him are a real part of the conversation. None of these guys are/have been so elite that they can force their way to a spot regardless, like Bedard can do in Chicago's prospect pool. They all rely on other players doing good/bad/underwhelming/etc.

But I'm still trying to figure out how Faber worked his way into #2, because we're not voting for Haight at #2 simply because Rossi's stock has fallen, so what has Faber done to position himself ahead of guys who were previously ahead of him?

Seems like it's just the 6 heavily sheltered playoff games, so okay, now I know

 

[MuckOG]

I'm not dismissing it, I'm just acknowledging that it was 6 games of heavily sheltered play that some people are seemingly putting an outsized amount of weight on.

It was better than the alternative of coming in and giving up a goal every time he was on the ice, but it was still only 6 heavily sheltered games.

Heavily sheltered, but I also saw him pull Merrill's bacon out of the fire on more than a few plays. He also showed off his elite skating and his quick first passes. His ability to withstand physical contact along the boards and escape with the puck really opened up my eyes. IMO, he showed that he instantly belongs and will only improve.

 

[TaLoN]

But I'm still trying to figure out how Faber worked his way into #2, because we're not voting for Haight at #2 simply because Rossi's stock has fallen, so what has Faber done to position himself ahead of guys who were previously ahead of him?

Seems like it's just the 6 heavily sheltered playoff games, so okay, now I know

I think Faber's IQ, poise and NHL readiness show he has more than "top 4" potential. His ceiling is higher than I previously believed.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

But I'm still trying to figure out how Faber worked his way into #2, because we're not voting for Haight at #2 simply because Rossi's stock has fallen, so what has Faber done to position himself ahead of guys who were previously ahead of him?

Seems like it's just the 6 heavily sheltered playoff games, so okay, now I know

The 6 playoff games, coming off of a really good junior NCAA season. Not sure why you think the rest of last year isn't a part of it, or why Yurov's performance last year made him somehow unimpeachable, even though I'll say again, I still have Yurov ahead of Faber.

 

[AKL]

The 6 playoff games, coming off of a really good junior NCAA season. Not sure why you think the rest of last year isn't a part of it.

Cause no one else has talked about his college season in their arguments, it's just about the 6 playoff games

After the college season he was probably sitting around 5-6 for most people

 

[MuckOG]

Cause no one else has talked about his college season in their arguments, it's just about the 6 playoff games

After the college season he was probably sitting around 5-6 for most people

Let's turn it around on you, what have you seen from Yurov and Khus that makes you believe they should be ranked higher than Faber?

 

[BagHead]

In a small sample size, Faber has looked as good at his age as Brodin did. That puts him high on my list (#2). For what it's worth, I think he'll have struggles with the length of the NHL season, but he's got what it takes to be a 2nd pairing guy right now, otherwise.

Rossi sits at #3 because I'm still a believer in his skill, intelligence, and determination to improve. With enough of that last quality, I think he'll overcome his issues in time and become a good 2nd line center. I think, but don't have proof, that he's pretty close to that moment, so he's #3 on my list. Basically Faber has proven it, Rossi hasn't. Nor has anyone else on the list not named Faber.

 

[Spurgeon]

So you pay no mind to upside or anything of that nature in your personal rankings?

No, I just think the variability of a players development is a significant portion of the ranking.

I think there’s a slightly better chance that Rossi develops into a #1C compared to Khus, but I believe that Khus has a better chance of being a Top 6 forward compared to Rossi and a better chance of being an NHL center in general.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Cause no one else has talked about his college season in their arguments, it's just about the 6 playoff games

After the college season he was probably sitting around 5-6 for most people

I guess those most people would have to confirm that, because I'm not sure that this should just be generally accepted.

But I'll stop assuming that people knew that time existed before the 1st round of the NHL playoffs.

 

[AKL]

I guess those most people would have to confirm that, because I'm not sure that this should just be generally accepted.

But I'll stop assuming that people knew that time existed before the 1st round of the NHL playoffs.

You can make the remarks about people knowing time existed before the playoffs, but that's kind the point isn't it. If he was considered somewhere in the 4-6 range before his NHL games, and 2 after his NHL games, he rose 2-4 spots just from the 6-8 NHL games. And the question I've been asking is, did he rise because of the 6-8 NHL games.

Again, I think I've stated (multiple times now), if people want to rank him 2nd off of the 6 games, that's their prerogative, and it's fine. I was just trying to figure out if that's really all it was, given that he was heavily sheltered for those 6 games, and it's only 6 games. Seems like that's what it is for most people, so fine. I obviously disagree with that, but I don't think I've told anyone they're wrong yet.

 

[MuckOG]

You can make the remarks about people knowing time existed before the playoffs, but that's kind the point isn't it. If he was considered somewhere in the 4-6 range before his NHL games, and 2 after his NHL games, he rose 2-4 spots just from the 6-8 NHL games. And the question I've been asking is, did he rise because of the 6-8 NHL games.

Again, I think I've stated (multiple times now), if people want to rank him 2nd off of the 6 games, that's their prerogative, and it's fine. I was just trying to figure out if that's really all it was, given that he was heavily sheltered for those 6 games, and it's only 6 games. Seems like that's what it is for most people, so fine. I obviously disagree with that, but I don't think I've told anyone they're wrong yet.

Would you agree that playoff games would weight heavier than regular season games?

 

[BagHead]

Cause no one else has talked about his college season in their arguments, it's just about the 6 playoff games

After the college season he was probably sitting around 5-6 for most people

I'm not sure how similar I am to most people, but I had him at #3 at the end of his college season, and his NHL time bumped him up to #2 on my list. It was only 8 games, but he acquitted himself well in them. I don't have him jumping something like 4-5 placements based on those 8 games, I have him jumping 1 placement. I don't think it's any less reasonable than my dropping Rossi multiple places based on 19 games. I saw enough in those games to make that decision, too.

Besides, let's not forget that this is all speculation and we're all definitely wrong.

 

[AKL]

Would you agree that 6 playoff games would weight heavier than 6 regular season games?

I would agree that the comparative weight of 6 playoff games to 6 regular season games is irrelevant to what I'm saying in this thread, and I would agree that the weight of 6 games in general has little to no impact on how I rank prospects.

I do vaguely remember how high some people (not just on this board) were on Rem Pitlick after his first handful of games with us though, and I do remember how that turned out, which is part of the reason my rankings don't change much after 6-8 games.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I didn't ask you what you thought of Faber, and didn't mention anything about "absolute ceilings".

If I was a person that felt that Faber was truly going to be a future legit #2 defenseman, then in my mind, I would need to think of Rossi/Yurov/Ohgren/Khusnutdinov as being future legit play-driving top line forwards (or at least legit complimentary top line forwards) to put them ahead of Faber. Do you believe all of those forwards qualify as that?

I believe that Yurov/Ohgren/Khusnutdinov will all be quality top 6 forwards with 2/3 of them probably joining Kaprizov on the top line and the other joining Boldy on the 2nd line. I'm skeptical on Rossi, but there is a lot of potential there.

If this person thinks that Faber is going to be for sure a #2, I would question their ability to evaluate talent. I haven't seen anything to suggest he will be better than Hjalmarsson.

 

[AKL]

I believe that Yurov/Ohgren/Khusnutdinov will all be quality top 6 forwards with 2/3 of them probably joining Kaprizov on the top line and the other joining Boldy on the 2nd line. I'm skeptical on Rossi, but there is a lot of potential there.

If this person thinks that Faber is going to be for sure a #2, I would question their ability to evaluate talent. I haven't seen anything to suggest he will be better than Hjalmarsson.

Somewhat unrelated, and feel free to say no, but could I make the request that we put the % of votes each player won with next to their name on the list in each thread? I like to see where the consensus tier breaks are.

 

[Digitalbooya]

In 6 months Faber will be a regular NHL player and be out of the prospect list already

Question for the majority, does this mean a lot? He has virtually no competition at the RD position.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Somewhat unrelated, and feel free to say no, but could I make the request that we put the % of votes each player won with next to their name on the list in each thread? I like to see where the consensus tier breaks are.

Sure thing! OP has been updated

Let's turn it around on you, what have you seen from Yurov and Khus that makes you believe they should be ranked higher than Faber?

High end skill and offensive potential.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I believe that Yurov/Ohgren/Khusnutdinov will all be quality top 6 forwards with 2/3 of them probably joining Kaprizov on the top line and the other joining Boldy on the 2nd line. I'm skeptical on Rossi, but there is a lot of potential there.

If this person thinks that Faber is going to be for sure a #2, I would question their ability to evaluate talent. I haven't seen anything to suggest he will be better than Hjalmarsson.

To be fair, I question all of our abilities to evaluate talent.

 

[Wabit]

But I'm still trying to figure out how Faber worked his way into #2, because we're not voting for Haight at #2 simply because Rossi's stock has fallen, so what has Faber done to position himself ahead of guys who were previously ahead of him?

Seems like it's just the 6 heavily sheltered playoff games, so okay, now I know

I had Faber in a pile with the rest of the d-men. His age and being a RD (better opportunity) moved him to the head of that group. I put as much weight (maybe a little more) on a prospect's floor as their ceiling.

So my rankings are more like:
1: Wallstedt (could still bust because goalies are weird).

Then guys that I see becoming NHL regulars:
Stramel
Ohgren
Faber
Milne (I'm torn where to put him as I don't think he'll be more than a 4th liner)

Then the boom or bust:
Rossi
Marat K
Heidt

Then the group of LD, because I think there is a bottleneck and it'll hinder all of their development:
ROR
Hunt
Lambos
etc

I don't know enough about Yuorv or Kumpulainen to have any idea where to put them.

 

[Wabit]

Question for the majority, does this mean a lot? He has virtually no competition at the RD position.

I had Faber in the same group as Hunt/Lambos/ROR (all have similar 2nd pair upside). Being that there isn't an competition for him is one of the main reasons I moved him ahead of that group.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think we have 1 prospect with "star" potential, which is Wallstedt.

After that you've got probably 6-8 with hopes/expectations/potential of top 6 forward or top 4 defense, which is: Rossi, Yurov, Faber, Khusnuts, Ohgren, Lambos, Peart (maybe) and Stramel (maybe). All of these guys would be on the same relative "tier", in that case, IMO.

Of those guys, only Rossi and Faber have seen any NHL games, of which Rossi did not show well, and Faber did, depending on how much you want to get into the "sheltered" argument.

Seeing Faber in those 8 games, I feel reasonably assured that Faber's floor is now at least NHL player. I feel good about that, and I don't feel like it's controversial. Based on that, I would not entirely blame anybody for moving Faber towards the top of that 2nd "tier" for the time being, especially if if they value the "floor" in any meaningful way (I don't put a lot into it, but I don't completely ignore it either).

In any case, it's not like Faber beat Rossi in a landslide (3 votes) and who knows how many of those Rossi votes would've gone to Yurov, had Rossi prevailed at #2. It's not the Crime of the Century here.