Trottier
Very Random
[Fire Sather] said:
:lol Further update: TiesRLikeWins4Us was reported walking out of the negotiations with a troubled look on his face. It was later discovered that he was just suffering from an acute desire for doughnuts.
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:lol Further update: TiesRLikeWins4Us was reported walking out of the negotiations with a troubled look on his face. It was later discovered that he was just suffering from an acute desire for doughnuts.
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
Ya Ties what happened to the link?? Its screwed up now...it was good yesterday....Joe_Strummer said:
lol...You need your all important "NHLPA CBA News crap" web site login to get access.
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
OilerFan4Life said:
Try it now.. Im gonna make a new site for the HF Boards Proposal, where everybody can see the proposals.
I don't have the real Adobe Reader, I just use their trial. So Ill try get it to work permanently.
Sorry to bring this up again.. But I made a new page where you could view the proposals whenever. I ditched the PDF's.. The new link is at the top of the page.
red devil
Registered User
- Oct 14, 2004
- 9,640
- 14,736
There shouldn't be a salary floor without linkage, or it should be atleast lower than $30 million. The reason is, it is hard to predict revenues especially in the near future, so unless if the big markets are ready to support half the league this should be changed. If the PA supporters want a floor make it at $20 million, so it gives small market teams a chance to make a profit. Another option you may want to include is giving 100% QO offers to players who make around $700,000, so the lower paid players aren't continuing to see there salaries drop.
amazingcrwns
drop the puck
I have a question in regards to the payroll tax of 125% on salaries over 45 million. My question is in regards to what exactly that tax is on if a team reaches the $45 million. Does the 125% kick in at every dollar over $45 mil or on every dollar over $40 million.
In other words, a payroll of $47 million would have a tax of either 5 million for the payroll between 40 and 45 and then an additional 2.5 million for the payroll between 45 and 47, making it a $7.5 million tax or 125% of every dollar above $40 million making the tax $8.75 million.
Personally I would prefer the 2nd option because it would make teams think long and hard about going over that 45 million dollar threshold, it would automatically kick in $1.25 million in payroll tax.
In other words, a payroll of $47 million would have a tax of either 5 million for the payroll between 40 and 45 and then an additional 2.5 million for the payroll between 45 and 47, making it a $7.5 million tax or 125% of every dollar above $40 million making the tax $8.75 million.
Personally I would prefer the 2nd option because it would make teams think long and hard about going over that 45 million dollar threshold, it would automatically kick in $1.25 million in payroll tax.
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
Scoogs
Registered User
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
umm...what are you talking about, what am I talking about?Scugs said:What are you talking about?
Dude the threads name is HF Boards Proposal. As in our HF CBA.
Trottier
Very Random
amazingcrwns said:
The 125% tax rate kicks in at every dollar over $45 mil, up to the $50 mil hardcap.
Another alternative.
I think you guy's are on the right track for a compromise. I took your proposal and tweaked it to see if I could come up with a Luxury tax proposal. What do you guy's think:
Luxury Tax System
24% Rollback on Salaries
$300,000 minimum base salary
Maximum 4 year contract length
Guaranteed Contracts. 1/3 buyout.
Standard league-wide incentive bonus structure (see below).
Salary Tax levels tied to league revenues. Thresholds to be derived from League revenue*threshold level/30. League revenues to be audited annually by independant auditors.
45% Threshold - TEAM SALARY FLOOR
If an NHL team does indeed go under the 45% Salary Floor then they will abdicate any right to revenue sharing dollars.
55% Threshold - MAXIMUM TAX FREE SALARY
55-65% Threshold - 25% Tax
65-75% Threshold - 50% Tax
75%+ Threshold - 200% Tax
Salary Tax revenue to be redistributed as a revenue equalization payment to lower revenue teams that reach the minimum 45% team salary floor threshold.
Entry level system
Entry level contracts will be set at a standard length of 4 years, regardless of entry-level player's age. All entry-level contracts will be two-way. A player's rights will belong to the original drafting team indefinitely until his first NHL contract is signed (at which time he will be subject to free agency rules). A player can never "re-enter" the draft.
In order to elligible for the draft players drafted in the first 3 rounds must reach 18 years of age by September 30th of the year in which they are drafted. Players drafted in subsequent rounds must reach age 19 by October 31st of the year in which they are drafted.
1st Round Maximum base salary: $850,000
2nd Round Maximum base salary: $750,000
3rd Round Maximum base salary: $650,000
4th-6th Round Maximum base salary: $550,000
7th-9th Round Maximum base salary: $450,000
Bonus Structure
Bonus structure will be binding and uniform for all NHL players. They will NOT count towards Salary Tax thresholds.
Hart Trophy: $1M
Conn Smythe Trophy, Lester Pearson, Norris, Vezina, Art Ross Trophies: $750k
1st All-Star, Calder, Maurice Richard, William Jennings Trophy: $500k
2nd All-Star, Selke Trophy: $250k
Rookie All Star, Lady Byng Trophy: $150k
Bill Masterton, King Clancy, Lester PAtrick: $100k donation to favorite charity.
Maximum signing bonus (Non-Entry): $250k/contract year signed
Maximum signing bonus (Entry-Level): $250k total
Free Agency
UFA status will be achieved under the follwing conditions:
- A player with 8 years NHL service (*) AND is atleast 29 years of age.
- A player with 8 years NHL service (*) AND is making less than the NHL average player salary.
- A player with 4 years Pro Service AND is atleast 25 years of age AND has fewer than 2 years NHL service (*)
(* To have a "full year of NHL service" you must dress in atleast 50 games (thus backup goalies still get credit for appearances on the bench). If a player is placed on the injured list, he has 25 games to make it back onto the ice. Those 25 games count as "games played." However, after the 25th game his days on the injured list no longer count as "games played.")
RFA status will be achieved under the follwing conditions:
- A player that has completed his entry level contract and does not yet qualify for UFA status and for which has been tendered a qualifying offer (100% of a players previous contract).
Both parties have 14 days from openeing of training camp to come to a mutual agreement or be subject to automatic arbitration.
- A player may walk away from a salary arbitration decision, but must sit out the entire season and his rights will still be subject to all normal conditions the following year.
- A team may walk away from a salary arbitration decision, however the player will be declared a UFA.
- Maximum year over year salary arbitration increase will be 50%.
Waiver rules
Waiver elligibility will be uniform, both for pre-season waiver draft and in season draft.
- Only players under an entry-level contract will be exempt from waivers and only if they have fewer than 2 years NHL service at the time they are sent down.
EXAMPLE of Luxury tax system:
Let's assume the the NHL's league revenues were 2.1 Billion last year. That's 70 million per team. Therefore the thresholds would be as follows
45% - 31.5 Million
55% - 38.5 Million
65% - 45.5 Million
75% - 52.5 Million
Now any team can go under 31.5 if they want, but they risk losing out on equalization payments... that's the carrot, the lack of a hard guarantee at the bottom is the tradeoff for not having one at the top.
Up to 38.5 and you are fine, but once you pass that the taxes begin to mount very fast. If a team like the Rangers decided to bite the bullet and try for a $70 million, they would in fact be paying 70+ 40.25 in taxes, or 110+ million, which would be insane, even for the Rags.
The key here is that everything is tied into revenues, even if there is no hard cap.
The big wins for ownership, imo, is the 50% cap on arbitration awards. Let's imagine a guy like Sydney Crosby comes along and hits maximum rewards until UFA status.
18-22 850K
23 1.275 Million
24 1.9 Million
25 2.9 Million
26 4.3 Million
27 6.5 Million
28 9.7 Million
29 UFA
Compare this to guy's like LeCavalier who score huge contracts out of Junior, and over 10 years you are paying half for this players total contract, and he absolutely has to perform or he won't get a penny. Even if he wins the Hart at 22, his base salary won't budge unless he keeps it up, year after year.
IMO, this is the only alternative or compromise. Either they'll end up with a cap with NO link to revenue (Something like HF proposal), or a tax linked to revenue (Something like this). It's the only way both sides can claim victory.
I think you guy's are on the right track for a compromise. I took your proposal and tweaked it to see if I could come up with a Luxury tax proposal. What do you guy's think:
Luxury Tax System
24% Rollback on Salaries
$300,000 minimum base salary
Maximum 4 year contract length
Guaranteed Contracts. 1/3 buyout.
Standard league-wide incentive bonus structure (see below).
Salary Tax levels tied to league revenues. Thresholds to be derived from League revenue*threshold level/30. League revenues to be audited annually by independant auditors.
45% Threshold - TEAM SALARY FLOOR
If an NHL team does indeed go under the 45% Salary Floor then they will abdicate any right to revenue sharing dollars.
55% Threshold - MAXIMUM TAX FREE SALARY
55-65% Threshold - 25% Tax
65-75% Threshold - 50% Tax
75%+ Threshold - 200% Tax
Salary Tax revenue to be redistributed as a revenue equalization payment to lower revenue teams that reach the minimum 45% team salary floor threshold.
Entry level system
Entry level contracts will be set at a standard length of 4 years, regardless of entry-level player's age. All entry-level contracts will be two-way. A player's rights will belong to the original drafting team indefinitely until his first NHL contract is signed (at which time he will be subject to free agency rules). A player can never "re-enter" the draft.
In order to elligible for the draft players drafted in the first 3 rounds must reach 18 years of age by September 30th of the year in which they are drafted. Players drafted in subsequent rounds must reach age 19 by October 31st of the year in which they are drafted.
1st Round Maximum base salary: $850,000
2nd Round Maximum base salary: $750,000
3rd Round Maximum base salary: $650,000
4th-6th Round Maximum base salary: $550,000
7th-9th Round Maximum base salary: $450,000
Bonus Structure
Bonus structure will be binding and uniform for all NHL players. They will NOT count towards Salary Tax thresholds.
Hart Trophy: $1M
Conn Smythe Trophy, Lester Pearson, Norris, Vezina, Art Ross Trophies: $750k
1st All-Star, Calder, Maurice Richard, William Jennings Trophy: $500k
2nd All-Star, Selke Trophy: $250k
Rookie All Star, Lady Byng Trophy: $150k
Bill Masterton, King Clancy, Lester PAtrick: $100k donation to favorite charity.
Maximum signing bonus (Non-Entry): $250k/contract year signed
Maximum signing bonus (Entry-Level): $250k total
Free Agency
UFA status will be achieved under the follwing conditions:
- A player with 8 years NHL service (*) AND is atleast 29 years of age.
- A player with 8 years NHL service (*) AND is making less than the NHL average player salary.
- A player with 4 years Pro Service AND is atleast 25 years of age AND has fewer than 2 years NHL service (*)
(* To have a "full year of NHL service" you must dress in atleast 50 games (thus backup goalies still get credit for appearances on the bench). If a player is placed on the injured list, he has 25 games to make it back onto the ice. Those 25 games count as "games played." However, after the 25th game his days on the injured list no longer count as "games played.")
RFA status will be achieved under the follwing conditions:
- A player that has completed his entry level contract and does not yet qualify for UFA status and for which has been tendered a qualifying offer (100% of a players previous contract).
Both parties have 14 days from openeing of training camp to come to a mutual agreement or be subject to automatic arbitration.
- A player may walk away from a salary arbitration decision, but must sit out the entire season and his rights will still be subject to all normal conditions the following year.
- A team may walk away from a salary arbitration decision, however the player will be declared a UFA.
- Maximum year over year salary arbitration increase will be 50%.
Waiver rules
Waiver elligibility will be uniform, both for pre-season waiver draft and in season draft.
- Only players under an entry-level contract will be exempt from waivers and only if they have fewer than 2 years NHL service at the time they are sent down.
EXAMPLE of Luxury tax system:
Let's assume the the NHL's league revenues were 2.1 Billion last year. That's 70 million per team. Therefore the thresholds would be as follows
45% - 31.5 Million
55% - 38.5 Million
65% - 45.5 Million
75% - 52.5 Million
Now any team can go under 31.5 if they want, but they risk losing out on equalization payments... that's the carrot, the lack of a hard guarantee at the bottom is the tradeoff for not having one at the top.
Up to 38.5 and you are fine, but once you pass that the taxes begin to mount very fast. If a team like the Rangers decided to bite the bullet and try for a $70 million, they would in fact be paying 70+ 40.25 in taxes, or 110+ million, which would be insane, even for the Rags.
The key here is that everything is tied into revenues, even if there is no hard cap.
The big wins for ownership, imo, is the 50% cap on arbitration awards. Let's imagine a guy like Sydney Crosby comes along and hits maximum rewards until UFA status.
18-22 850K
23 1.275 Million
24 1.9 Million
25 2.9 Million
26 4.3 Million
27 6.5 Million
28 9.7 Million
29 UFA
Compare this to guy's like LeCavalier who score huge contracts out of Junior, and over 10 years you are paying half for this players total contract, and he absolutely has to perform or he won't get a penny. Even if he wins the Hart at 22, his base salary won't budge unless he keeps it up, year after year.
IMO, this is the only alternative or compromise. Either they'll end up with a cap with NO link to revenue (Something like HF proposal), or a tax linked to revenue (Something like this). It's the only way both sides can claim victory.
Last edited:
Scoogs
Registered User
OilerFan4Life said:
I mean, meeting between who, and a deal between who? I really don't feel like reading through all the posts.
OilerFan4Life
Registered User
OilerFan4Life said:Sorry bro...As a PA rep I fell asleep after that 24%
You know what they say about the genie and the bottle
re:
I really like the proposal Dolfanar has laid out. I think it might be a bit too much to swallow for the PA to accept the rollback they offered aswell as a stiff luxury tax, but offering a 15% rollback or something, then this could be a really meaningful proposal for both sides, although I think the players union would disagree... The owners would be dumb not to accept something like this though.
I really like the proposal Dolfanar has laid out. I think it might be a bit too much to swallow for the PA to accept the rollback they offered aswell as a stiff luxury tax, but offering a 15% rollback or something, then this could be a really meaningful proposal for both sides, although I think the players union would disagree... The owners would be dumb not to accept something like this though.
MattScott said:
I really think the key if for Bob to be able to say "We didn't get a salary cap" and Gary to be able to say "We got cost-revenue linking". Ie they can both claim victory. The devil ofcourse is in the details, but until those two can claim a victory a deal will NEVER get done... hence my compromises. :p
codswallop
yes, i am an alcoholic
To those on both sides of our mock-CBA talks (and our dedicated moderator), I just want to apologize.
I was out of town on a semi-vacation last week and I'm just getting back into the groove now. Was only part of the first conference, and nothing since. Bad timing for me, because I love situations like this.
I'm all in again.
I was out of town on a semi-vacation last week and I'm just getting back into the groove now. Was only part of the first conference, and nothing since. Bad timing for me, because I love situations like this.
I'm all in again.
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