Player Discussion Henrik Lundqvist

[Hunter Gathers]

Management never said they were tanking. These are professional players getting paid to perform. Hank will continue to play as if we were a cup contender.

I was unaware I was talking about tanking. News to me.

Also, I couldn't care less if he's livid if he has to sit some if it means his body takes less wear and tear on it when we still have to pay him a f*** ton of money over the next number of years.

Obviously you can't see past your nose.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Yeah, I very much empathize with the folks who just can't root for losses on an emotional level. I don't understand the people that make an effort to deride the people that want a better pick. One's an emotional reaction, one seems purposeful. It's the difference between murder 1 and manslaughter. (Not calling anyone a murderer just making a clarifying analogy).

Some people are shortsighted. I don't really care if the team tanks or not, but better picks are much more helpful to the team long term than Hank getting a couple of wins.

 

[East Coast Bias]

They literally prepared a memo to their fans that said "we are tanking", using the verbiage they could get away with without embarrassing the league.

 

[kovazub94]

I would be fine with shutting him down at some point. We need to preserve our ROI with his contract. The idea that we should care about 30 wins is silly. I couldn't care less if he hits 30 wins if it causes his body to get more wear and tear on it. Especially if we have to pay him this salary for the next number of years.

I’m glad you’re not the one making this decision because your idea of preserving your ROI would result in creating a friction between the organization and Hank.

Very clear from your posts that you worry about a few draft spots more than Hank’s legacy. I’d love to see Gorton calling 30 win streak “silly” to Hank’s face and the lash back he (deserving) would get.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I’m glad you’re not the one making this decision because your idea of preserving your ROI would result in creating a friction between the organization and Hank.

Very clear from your posts that you worry about a few draft spots more than Hank’s legacy. I’d love to see Gorton calling 30 win streak “silly” to Hank’s face and the lash back he’s (deserving) would get.

Hank's legacy has zero impact on the health of this franchise. I'm pretty sure he even has the record for conescutive 30 win seasons to start his career. So what exactly would another season where he only got 30 wins because he started a shit ton of games do for his legacy? 30 wins in the age of the shootout isn't even that impressive and these are mostly meaningless wins anyway.

 

[Thirty One]

They literally prepared a memo to their fans that said "we are tanking", using the verbiage they could get away with without embarrassing the league.

Not even slightly, though.

 

[kovazub94]

Right. I'm pointing out the dismissive nature of your post.

Exactly!

 

[kovazub94]

Some people are shortsighted. I don't really care if the team tanks or not, but better picks are much more helpful to the team long term than Hank getting a couple of wins.

Talking about dismissive...

 

[eco's bones]

Even if the Rangers were to pull off the minor miracle of making the playoffs---they'd get clobbered in the opening round. We go up against Tampa with the defense we have now Henrik might be looking at 80 shot nights. Two successive 50+ save nights vs. Vancouver and Calgary--hardly the elite of the league.

I don't mean to shit all over what's happened in the last week or even the last couple months. You could see a gradual decline over the past couple seasons get quite a bit steeper this year and you can see a new plan coming into being now that Gorton's made at least some of his moves. I like that the team continues to compete. I like the young or new guys coming in and going at things hard--not just Georgiev, but Pionk and Gilmour and Namestnikov and Spooner have looked great and even O'Gara tries. And they've won a few games here and that's cool--for one thing when Georgiev plays you want him to think he can win at this level. As a team they are obviously not tanking but their chances of going to playoffs are like 2% and their chances of winning a playoff game--let alone a round are less than that.

There is no point putting Henrik in net practically every night to look at 50+ shots to do everything possible to realize that 2% chance to get annihilated by the Lightning in the first round. There is a point to seeing what Georgiev can do now....for next season if nothing else and a point to giving Henrik a break whether he wants it or not. Henrik's future is limited--Georgiev's is all before him. Shesterkin's is all before him too. Henrik might still be the best goalie but what's best for the franchise right now is making sure the future is going to pan out the right way. Throwing all your chips into an impossible situation is a sucker's game.

 

[nevesis]

I was unaware I was talking about tanking. News to me.

Also, I couldn't care less if he's livid if he has to sit some if it means his body takes less wear and tear on it when we still have to pay him a **** ton of money over the next number of years.

Obviously you can't see past your nose.

Lundqvist is an asset worth millions upon millions in value to the organization. When it comes to his health over the next four years, they would not mess around. This was proven when he had his vascular injury and they wouldn't let him play until he was absolutely, 100% cleared by doctors.

He is currently healthy, and will continue to play because it's his job, and he wants to play. But there is another thing that seems missed by many here...

It's a business, and if they sat Hank the rest of the season, it's essentially completely giving up on the season and this doesn't bode well for the business side of things. The team's best player being sat and not because of an injury is the organization completely throwing away the season. This would affect ticket sales, and fan morale even more than the losing streak did during January.

Management is clearly going for the under promise/over deliver aspect for the rest of the season. They effectively told everyone don't expect much, but if they actually end up making the playoffs, why not go for it.

Speaking of the business side of things. Playoffs is BIG money to Mr. Dolan and company. Even thought the rumor is that the rebuild came from the top down (Dolan) he would not be upset if the Rangers squeaked in and they were able to get at least one round of playoff revenue.

The long term health of the franchise is in good hands as it currently is with the trades, picks and prospects coming down the pipeline. Rebuilding will take a few years to fully show the fruits of the managements labor.

A team like the New York Rangers in a market like this one could never go full, 100% in on a tank unless it happened organically. This is as far as they would take it without it being bad for business.

 

[TheTakedown]

Even if the Rangers were to pull off the minor miracle of making the playoffs---they'd get clobbered in the opening round. We go up against Tampa with the defense we have now Henrik might be looking at 80 shot nights. Two successive 50+ save nights vs. Vancouver and Calgary--hardly the elite of the league.

I don't mean to **** all over what's happened in the last week or even the last couple months. You could see a gradual decline over the past couple seasons get quite a bit steeper this year and you can see a new plan coming into being now that Gorton's made at least some of his moves. I like that the team continues to compete. I like the young or new guys coming in and going at things hard--not just Georgiev, but Pionk and Gilmour and Namestnikov and Spooner have looked great and even O'Gara tries. And they've won a few games here and that's cool--for one thing when Georgiev plays you want him to think he can win at this level. As a team they are obviously not tanking but their chances of going to playoffs are like 2% and their chances of winning a playoff game--let alone a round are less than that.

There is no point putting Henrik in net practically every night to look at 50+ shots to do everything possible to realize that 2% chance to get annihilated by the Lightning in the first round. There is a point to seeing what Georgiev can do now....for next season if nothing else and a point to giving Henrik a break whether he wants it or not. Henrik's future is limited--Georgiev's is all before him. Shesterkin's is all before him too. Henrik might still be the best goalie but what's best for the franchise right now is making sure the future is going to pan out the right way. Throwing all your chips into an impossible situation is a sucker's game.

For those who suffer from TL;DR syndrome

This is normal athlete instinct... It's the same reason AV has been fighting for a job even though he'll most likely be fired in one month. Basically, Hank, for the intents and purposes of winning a cup is better off not playing as much this year, giving the Rangers a chance to grab elite talent in the draft. If the Rangers do get an NHL ready elite talent in this draft, this rebuild goes from 3-4 years to 1-2 years. He can bitch and moan that it sucks ass that he would have to do that, but the rules are the rules and there is nothing anyone can do about that sans an owner forcing Bettman to make more changes to the draft lottery.

in 2 years, Hank would be 38, getting 30-40 games a year, and could still win his cup, with talent that the Rangers have spent 2 years acquiring--sure not all of that talent pans out, but you can't hit on every prospect.

Some will say that I'm simply speculating, but with the farm that Gorton (specifically Hajek, DeAngelo, and Pionk on Defense), plus 3 1st round picks this summer, plus Andersson and Chytil, Georgiev and Shesty on the rise, and supplanted with legitimate NHL players (read: borderline elite talent), e.g. Shattenkirk, Kreider, Zibanejad, and Namestnikov... You can't say this team can't compete for a high spot in the playoffs, let alone a Stanley Cup, within 2-3 years

 

[TheTakedown]

Lundqvist is an asset worth millions upon millions in value to the organization. When it comes to his health over the next four years, they would not mess around. This was proven when he had his vascular injury and they wouldn't let him play until he was absolutely, 100% cleared by doctors.

He is currently healthy, and will continue to play because it's his job, and he wants to play. But there is another thing that seems missed by many here...

It's a business, and if they sat Hank the rest of the season, it's essentially completely giving up on the season and this doesn't bode well for the business side of things. The team's best player being sat and not because of an injury is the organization completely throwing away the season. This would affect ticket sales, and fan morale even more than the losing streak did during January.

Management is clearly going for the under promise/over deliver aspect for the rest of the season. They effectively told everyone don't expect much, but if they actually end up making the playoffs, why not go for it.

Speaking of the business side of things. Playoffs is BIG money to Mr. Dolan and company. Even thought the rumor is that the rebuild came from the top down (Dolan) he would not be upset if the Rangers squeaked in and they were able to get at least one round of playoff revenue.

The long term health of the franchise is in good hands as it currently is with the trades, picks and prospects coming down the pipeline. Rebuilding will take a few years to fully show the fruits of the managements labor.

A team like the New York Rangers in a market like this one could never go full, 100% in on a tank unless it happened organically. This is as far as they would take it without it being bad for business.

I get where you're coming from, but the Rangers making the playoffs and then getting absolutely crushed by Tampa is how you end up in the dreaded middle...

It's a business, sure, but 2 extra playoff games this year would realistically cost them a couple of *rounds* of playoff games down the road. I'm rather positive that Gorton has made this clear to Dolan--hell, Dolan knows how the rules work, I'm sure he's been given the statistics of how the 15th overall is worth a hell of a lot less than the 5th overall in terms of asset acquisition.

Long and short, as much as you want to deny it, making the playoffs *DOES* in fact have ramifications that do affect this teams talent level down the road. Look at Chicago--they are most likely going to end up with a 5th overall pick in this draft at this rate. They can use that player to supplement the high end core that they have, and the currently-transitioning players in play, and then make a charge at a cup again in a year or two.

Making the playoffs takes that option away

 

[Siddi]

I’m glad you’re not the one making this decision because your idea of preserving your ROI would result in creating a friction between the organization and Hank.

Very clear from your posts that you worry about a few draft spots more than Hank’s legacy. I’d love to see Gorton calling 30 win streak “silly” to Hank’s face and the lash back he (deserving) would get.

I admire your tenacity but it is not worth it. Know your audience and move on, save yourself the headache and effort.

As to whether or not Hank should sit, I believe that you should always ice the best team in order to give the team the best chance to win on any given night. We have enough pieces to trade for a higher draft pick and the city itself is a big lure for impact UFAs to complement our young core.

 

[eco's bones]

Georgiev has played really well in the three games he's played so far. He has a .930 save % and he saw a lot of rubber. IMO playing him right now ain't exactly trying to tank. The Rangers depending on their compete level any given night could come out with a win against at least most teams. IMO he should at the very least get 6 of the remaining 16 games. I would actually like to see them do 8 each.

 

[romba]

If we manage to make the playoffs that would be such a surprise bonus treat to watch. I’d be like Charlie taking his first steps in the Chocolate Factory, absolute childhood innocent joy (until we give up the first early goal lol). Can watch the guys play playoff hockey with absolutely ZERO expectations and no pressure on the team while the opposition would have tons of pressure. Would be fun to try to eek out a win or two on Henrik’s back like the old old days.

In my opinion the few spots we would lose in draft order would be negated by team building/playoff experience.

 

[nevesis]

If we manage to make the playoffs that would be such a surprise bonus treat to watch. I’d be like Charlie taking his first steps in the Chocolate Factory, absolute childhood innocent joy (until we give up the first early goal lol). Can watch the guys play playoff hockey with absolutely ZERO expectations and no pressure on the team while the opposition would have tons of pressure. Would be fun to try to eek out a win or two on Henrik’s back like the old old days.

In my opinion the few spots we would lose in draft order would be negated by team building/playoff experience.

Also, don't under estimate Hank's ability to steal a series or even two. Not to mention, anything can happen in the playoffs, especially a best of 7 series.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Also, don't under estimate Hank's ability to steal a series or even two. Not to mention, anything can happen in the playoffs, especially a best of 7 series.

They just averaged 47 shots against vs Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver.

They would get absolutely destroyed by Tampa. Wrecked.

There's not rooting against your own team and there's failing to come to grips with reality..

 

[Captain Lindy]

I love Hank but his contract pisses me off. He makes way too much money for a goaltender I don't care how many great saves he makes.
You cannot have that much money tied up in net. It makes it hard to build the rest of the team with all that salary.
Who ever gave him a no movement clause should be fired. Sather has to go yesterday.

I know posting anything remotely critical of the "King" is sacrilegious in here but I can't help it.

 

[nyrleetch]

I love Hank but his contract pisses me off. He makes way too much money for a goaltender I don't care how many great saves he makes.
You cannot have that much money tied up in net. It makes it hard to build the rest of the team with all that salary.
Who ever gave him a no movement clause should be fired. Sather has to go yesterday.

I know posting anything remotely critical of the "King" is sacrilegious in here but I can't help it.

It's also hard to build the rest of the team when you have contracts like Staal, Girardi, Nash etc. etc.

Also they made a cup final with Lundqvist high salary, so it's possible. Needed Nash to step up that series.

 

[Captain Lindy]

It's also hard to build the rest of the team when you have contracts like Staal, Girardi, Nash etc. etc.

Also they made a cup final with Lundqvist high salary, so it's possible. Needed Nash to step up that series.

Sather needs to go far away from this team giving out those insane contracts.

 

[nevesis]

I love Hank but his contract pisses me off. He makes way too much money for a goaltender I don't care how many great saves he makes.
You cannot have that much money tied up in net. It makes it hard to build the rest of the team with all that salary.
Who ever gave him a no movement clause should be fired. Sather has to go yesterday.

I know posting anything remotely critical of the "King" is sacrilegious in here but I can't help it.

Before his new contract

08-09: $6.875m of a $56.7m cap = 12.1% of team cap

After his new contract

14-15: $8.5m of a $68m cap = 12.5% of team cap
15-16: $8.5m of a $71.4m cap = 11.9% of team cap
17-18: $8.5m of a $75m cap = 11.3% of team cap

As the cap continues to rise, the percentage against the team cap becomes lower than it ever was in all the previous years he was on the team.

Oh, and let's not even begin to discuss the Rick Nash, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi contracts...

So, where we're all the people in 2009 or earlier who complained about Hank's salary in relation to the cap?

 

[Captain Lindy]

Look at all the Cup winners the last few years. They were won with cheap goaltenders.

If the Cup is the team's final goal, you can't be paying that much for goaltending.

 

[Captain Lindy]

P.S. I forgot to add...the team plans on giving up over 50 shots a game so maybe they figure the guy has to earn his salary.

 

[Hire Sather]

The other contracts have nothing to do with it. In this nhl, 8.5 is too much for a goalie. We are paying for who he is and what he's accomplished and that's fine..i want him finishing his career here but fact of the matter is it's too much for a goalie AND he didn't give us a dime of a home town discount if you ask me. Also fine, but some like to claim he would've gotten 10+ on the market.

 

[nevesis]

but some like to claim he would've gotten 10+ on the market.

He would have. Have you checked Price's new contract?