GDT: Hawks @ Panthers 12pm 11/12/23 NBC sports chicago

[Kevin Musto]

Kurashev playing this well has been a nice surprise. Came in the league young, looked decent, then plateaued.

Still young enough to be part of the team long term. If he crosses 40 points this year, and keeps it up the following year, he'll be a guy to lock up to a lengthy contract.

Foligno since game 1 has been our second best player. Combined with Kurashev, this line has helped to get Bedard going. Even though those two are probably 3rd liners on a contender, it's a hell of a lot better than Bedard playing with Raddysh, Donato, and the corpse of Taylor Hall.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

Just seen the Bedard goals, WOW. This kid has a wrister unlike anything I have ever seen.

 

[Blackhawksfirecoach]

my reaction after both Bedard goals was just "yeah why not just do that, why doesn't everyone just do that"

makes it look so easy lol

 

[Space umpire]

I just don't understand why TJ is out there 6 on 5. He's Perry and Foligno but worse. Several more viable options.

The shut down center on a cup winner is a good option. Comparing to Perry or Foligno is incorrect.

 

[Clownish]

9.5 million reasons why

Let's say most teams would have him at $6.5. What would the Hawks do with $3 million extra over the life of his contract? Imagine the difference-makers that could be had for that loot!!!! This isn't the Seabrook-era where complaining about his contract at least was fueled by the Hawks being up against the cap. THE HAWKS ARE NOT UP AGAINST THE CAP. His number could be 12 mil and by the time it really matters for the capology of it he's practically expiring or could be sent off to a contending team.

 

[BobbyJet]

Just seen the Bedard goals, WOW. This kid has a wrister unlike anything I have ever seen.

"Snipe" at his best.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Let's say most teams would have him at $6.5. What would the Hawks do with $3 million extra over the life of his contract? Imagine the difference-makers that could be had for that loot!!!! This isn't the Seabrook-era where complaining about his contract at least was fueled by the Hawks being up against the cap. THE HAWKS ARE NOT UP AGAINST THE CAP. His number could be 12 mil and by the time it really matters for the capology of it he's practically expiring or could be sent off to a contending team.

You're aware that contract lasts another 6 years right?

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

This is objectively hilarious.

 

[Happyhary9]

If they're not picking first but top 3-4 I'm taking Levshunov if available.

At this point I think I would take Levshunov at 3. I like Demidov, but not over Levshunov, kids looking very good in college and I hate MSU as well.

 

[Clownish]

You're aware that contract lasts another 6 years right?

!!!! No way?!? Really?! THEY ARE NOT UP AGAINST THE CAP and they won't be in the next few seasons, so by the time his cap hit is relevant, it likely won't have any opportunity cost tied to it. It doesn't keep them from acquiring other players. The Hawks aren't competing for much for the next three years--you're basically moaning about the final 3 years, and an overpayment of AT MOST $3 million. It's not that big of problem.

 

[belfour30]

At this point I think I would take Levshunov at 3. I like Demidov, but not over Levshunov, kids looking very good in college and I hate MSU as well.

I'd take him at 2.

 

[Kevin Musto]

you're basically moaning about the final 3 years, and an overpayment of AT MOST $3 million. It's not that big of problem.

You think Seth Jones won't continue to regress?

He's going to be an AHLer in those final 3 years.

It'll be an $8 million overpayment by that point.

 

[Happyhary9]

I'd take him at 2.

I am starting to lean that way as well. Want a great top 4 on the back end. I think we got 2 pieces that fit the future in KK and Vlasic. Jones for a little while. Levshunov would be awesome in there. I also like Yakemchuk with the TB pick if he is there and would have zero issues doubling down on D in this draft.

We lucked out and got a super star center in Bedard already. It is much easier to find scoring wingers and such in FA or trade. Top end D, if even available (which is rare) to massive overpayment.

 

[Space umpire]

You think Seth Jones won't continue to regress?

He's going to be an AHLer in those final 3 years.

It'll be an $8 million overpayment by that point.

You’re full of shit. He is a top pair guy now and his style of game (neither takes nor gives huge hits), He’ll be fine.
But then you are the guy who thinks Mitchell is a top pair guy and Strome is generational.

Big opinions, very low level evaluation skills.
This seems no different.

 

[Hawkaholic]

You’re full of shit. He is a top pair guy now and his style of game (neither takes nor gives huge hits), He’ll be fine.
But then you are the guy who thinks Mitchell is a top pair guy and Strome is generational.

Big opinions, very low level evaluation skills.
This seems no different.

Not really. Top pair guys are either elite offensively, or elite defensively with good offense. Jones is neither of those. He is above average defensively, and average offensively.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Not really. Top pair guys are either elite offensively, or elite defensively with good offense. Jones is neither of those. He is above average defensively, and average offensively.

Well he's top pair on the Hawks considering he plays the third most average time on ice in the entire NHL. Ideally he may be able to get supplanted from a position where he's asked to play that much which would allow him to age well. We can pontificate into the wind as much as we want about "what is a top pair defenseman?" in a philosophical sense, but for the Hawks in 2023-24, he's obviously and objectively the number 1 defenseman.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Well he's top pair on the Hawks considering he plays the third most average time on ice in the entire NHL. Ideally he may be able to get supplanted from a position where he's asked to play that much which would allow him to age well. We can pontificate into the wind as much as we want about "what is a top pair defenseman?" in a philosophical sense, but for the Hawks in 2023-24, he's obviously and objectively the number 1 defenseman.

What an achievement!!! Out of 3 rookies and 2 garbage Dmen, he's the best!

 

[Happyhary9]

Well he's top pair on the Hawks considering he plays the third most average time on ice in the entire NHL. Ideally he may be able to get supplanted from a position where he's asked to play that much which would allow him to age well. We can pontificate into the wind as much as we want about "what is a top pair defenseman?" in a philosophical sense, but for the Hawks in 2023-24, he's obviously and objectively the number 1 defenseman.

I would say when people say a guy is a top paring D they mean as in on a good team. Back in the day we had the ABC line of Arnasson, Bell and Calder. Yes technically they played on a top line on a NHL team, but none were top liners on good teams.

As far as Jones goes he is maybe a 2? But mostly a 3 on legit top end teams. As someone else pointed out he just isn't elite on O or on D. So he just doesn't fit on most top pairs on cup type teams. Good all a round as a #3.

Another issue with Jones is he just isn't a work horse type. He seems to struggle/loose consistency on the nights he is asked to log huge minutes. He is not a Keith type who if the legs are a little tired he can make up for it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

What an achievement!!! Out of 3 rookies and 2 garbage Dmen, he's the best!

I'm not saying it's a crowning achievement, I'm saying as a nominal statement, it's true.

 

[TLEH]

Seth isn't exactly a cerebral player. I think he is going to age like shit. He uses his physical gifts to get by. Once those go, forget it.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I'm not saying it's a crowning achievement, I'm saying as a nominal statement, it's true.

So a pointless statement.

 

[Space umpire]

I’m sure everyone has their lists ready but there are not currently 32 better D men.
There is an old thread where consensus seems to place him between 15 and 25.

Also, he doesn’t rely on either speed or brüt strength. He will age fine (injury not withstanding).
Plus if someone is dumb enough to believe that Ian Mitchell is a top pair guy then there are 288 top pair guys.
(9th best, 32 teams)

 

[WarriorofTime]

So a pointless statement.

Not really. No other sport does this. People don't pontificate into the wind about what is an NFL Starting QB, they just note that someone is an NFL Starting QB if they are their team's starter. It's just NHL fans that sit around wondering if someone who plays #1 defenseman minutes is actually a Top Pairing Defenseman in some philosophical sense of whatever that means (which unsurprisingly, often results in about 15 "top pairing defensemen" in the League).

 

[TLEH]

Not really. No other sport does this. People don't pontificate into the wind about what is an NFL Starting QB, they just note that someone is an NFL Starting QB if they are their team's starter. It's just NHL fans that sit around wondering if someone who plays #1 defenseman minutes is actually a Top Pairing Defenseman in some philosophical sense of whatever that means (which unsurprisingly, often results in about 15 "top pairing defensemen" in the League).

There is one QB at a time on the field.

People absolutely have 1WR discussions all the time, which is more relevant. It’s 100% a thing.

 

[Clownish]

There is one QB at a time on the field.

People absolutely have 1WR discussions all the time, which is more relevant. It’s 100% a thing.

A #1 WR is much easier for a message board GM to spot because even they can look at stats, sort by most receiving yards or most receiving touchdowns and have a pretty accurate list. Those absolutes aren't found when looking at +/-, goals, and assists sprinkled in with a post game bar graph yet people still try to use those to make definitive statements.