Injury Report: Havlat pelvic surgery confirmed, ineligible for compliance buyout

[do0glas]

When they let him take them, Desi is almost as good on faceoffs as Burish. The difference is that Desi is lefty and Burish righty.

My dislike of Burish is for more than his 48 games. I have felt that he hardly had business being in the league since his rookie year. I have followed him. Last year was worse than usual but not that much worse. The worse was in terms of his offense.

im not arguing that burish is good at all. i think that gets lost here.

im arguing reality. you say he has no business being in the NHL...yet here he is. explain that.

the reality is desi or sheppard get sent down before burish, and in fact if it even affects the cap, they will likely start with hertl there anyway.

desi started as 4C, but burish ended up being the mainstay there. explain that.

im arguing from a position of what the staff sees. and what is actually going to happen. burish stays at least this next season, he likes starts as 4C, and if the cap is a problem someone else goes down first.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

id agree about pk, but faceoffs are different because there is a number of faceoffs with a percentage. the gp doesnt matter in this case.

im no cap expert but hertl can start in the AHL.

Except that percentage is still based on a small sample size. He's not now nor ever going to take a huge bulk of face-offs so that is not a huge plus to attach to him. For a guy like him getting paid the way he is, he has to be more than adequate on the PK to be worth it. For that salary, he should displace Marleau or Pavelski on the top unit or be exceptionally productive as a 4th liner...around the 20 point mark that he did last season in Dallas as a third liner.

Hertl can start in the AHL but if he earns a spot on one of the top three lines, it would be incredibly stupid to send him down in favor of anybody on the 4th line. Burish just happens to create the largest amount of savings for the team which would help down the road.

 

[do0glas]

Except that percentage is still based on a small sample size. He's not now nor ever going to take a huge bulk of face-offs so that is not a huge plus to attach to him. For a guy like him getting paid the way he is, he has to be more than adequate on the PK to be worth it. For that salary, he should displace Marleau or Pavelski on the top unit or be exceptionally productive as a 4th liner...around the 20 point mark that he did last season in Dallas as a third liner.

Hertl can start in the AHL but if he earns a spot on one of the top three lines, it would be incredibly stupid to send him down in favor of anybody on the 4th line. Burish just happens to create the largest amount of savings for the team which would help down the road.

not saying hertl cant win a spot, but its more unlikely that his first year here he plays a full 82 games. might as well let him hash it out a bit in the AHL, build a game on NA ice and come back.

how many games would he miss in the beginning of the season for us to become cap compliant? his AHL salary is like 70k. i dont really know how all that works.

secondly, just go look at burish career for FO%. sample size is fine.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

not saying hertl cant win a spot, but its more unlikely that his first year here he plays a full 82 games. might as well let him hash it out a bit in the AHL, build a game on NA ice and come back.

how many games would he miss in the beginning of the season for us to become cap compliant? his AHL salary is like 70k. i dont really know how all that works.

secondly, just go look at burish career for FO%. sample size is fine.

I agree it's unlikely for him to play a full 82 but I would be surprised if he was sent down with how much talk has been about him by DW.

It's a daily thing, not a games played thing for cap calculations. But if we assume 185 days to this season, it will cost $7,297.30 per day to keep Hertl up and $218,918.92 to keep him up for 30 days. Sending him down with no recalls and no injuries just to keep it simple would give them $518,333 in cap space. So roughly, they'd have to wait until around the end of January or early February to call him up.

And I've seen his career face-off percentages...he's never taken over 500 draws in a season so I don't see that as a meaningful positive to his game when it comes to making a distinction of being worth it or not.

 

[do0glas]

I agree it's unlikely for him to play a full 82 but I would be surprised if he was sent down with how much talk has been about him by DW.

It's a daily thing, not a games played thing for cap calculations. But if we assume 185 days to this season, it will cost $7,297.30 per day to keep Hertl up and $218,918.92 to keep him up for 30 days. Sending him down with no recalls and no injuries just to keep it simple would give them $518,333 in cap space. So roughly, they'd have to wait until around the end of January or early February to call him up.

And I've seen his career face-off percentages...he's never taken over 500 draws in a season so I don't see that as a meaningful positive to his game when it comes to making a distinction of being worth it or not.

well over 500 or not, probably has more to do with his TOI. but he is still in the green at over 300 per season.

we should also remember he had the least amount of offensive zone starts of anyone on the team this year. close to the bottom of the team in dallas last year as well.

winning faceoffs in your own zone at an above 50% clip consistently is value, imo.

now..i completely understand that even if he were offensively sheltered, its not like hed score at a reasonable clip. but hes not untrusted enough to need to be sheltered. starting that often in the d-zone isnt going to help someone be positive in posession very often.

not saying desi couldnt do it, but without burish hed be the only one capable of it.

funnily enough he spent most of his time in front of the death pairing of vlasic/stuart. which has been proven as one of the worst pairings offensively weve iced in some time.

hes no two-way player, and if someone offered me a draft pick for him id take it. but hes not going to cripple this team. if he does DW will move him either TDL or off-season.

 

[Lebanezer]

Watch Demers or Hannan develop a mysterious injury and start the season on LTIR. I anticipate injury musical chairs until the cap no longer is an issue.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

well over 500 or not, probably has more to do with his TOI. but he is still in the green at over 300 per season.

we should also remember he had the least amount of offensive zone starts of anyone on the team this year. close to the bottom of the team in dallas last year as well.

winning faceoffs in your own zone at an above 50% clip consistently is value, imo.

now..i completely understand that even if he were offensively sheltered, its not like hed score at a reasonable clip. but hes not untrusted enough to need to be sheltered. starting that often in the d-zone isnt going to help someone be positive in posession very often.

not saying desi couldnt do it, but without burish hed be the only one capable of it.

funnily enough he spent most of his time in front of the death pairing of vlasic/stuart. which has been proven as one of the worst pairings offensively weve iced in some time.

hes no two-way player, and if someone offered me a draft pick for him id take it. but hes not going to cripple this team. if he does DW will move him either TDL or off-season.

Well the entire reason that his TOI is not high enough to get those draws is his overall playing ability. Winning those draws only means something if you're not losing the goal differential battle which Burish didn't here. He did on the 3rd line in Dallas but wasn't productive enough offensively to warrant it here.

The coaching staff may trust him but his numbers don't warrant that trust and for a team that is going to be asking for more production from their bottom six, it's unlikely Burish is going to be the one that gives it to them.

But them being over the cap now means that his contract level relative to his output and the team's future this season with regards to space needed for improvements or injury recalls down the road ought to be one most considered. Internally, their options are Hertl, Burish, Desjardins, Sheppard, and Wingels. I have a tough time believing that any of the latter three pass through waivers. Desjardins probably has the best chance to clear of the three.

But we can likely expect a trade once Havlat is good to go. Who it is? Who knows but I'd rather waive Burish and stash him in Worcester for a while...about the same as it would take to send down Hertl and recall him...than trade any of the other guys. Chances are Burish would clear and then he'd at least be an option down the road for the playoffs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Watch Demers or Hannan develop a mysterious injury and start the season on LTIR. I anticipate injury musical chairs until the cap no longer is an issue.

They can't play that game with LTIR like they did with regular IR.

 

[do0glas]

Well the entire reason that his TOI is not high enough to get those draws is his overall playing ability. Winning those draws only means something if you're not losing the goal differential battle which Burish didn't here. He did on the 3rd line in Dallas but wasn't productive enough offensively to warrant it here.

The coaching staff may trust him but his numbers don't warrant that trust and for a team that is going to be asking for more production from their bottom six, it's unlikely Burish is going to be the one that gives it to them.

But them being over the cap now means that his contract level relative to his output and the team's future this season with regards to space needed for improvements or injury recalls down the road ought to be one most considered. Internally, their options are Hertl, Burish, Desjardins, Sheppard, and Wingels. I have a tough time believing that any of the latter three pass through waivers. Desjardins probably has the best chance to clear of the three.

But we can likely expect a trade once Havlat is good to go. Who it is? Who knows but I'd rather waive Burish and stash him in Worcester for a while...about the same as it would take to send down Hertl and recall him...than trade any of the other guys. Chances are Burish would clear and then he'd at least be an option down the road for the playoffs.

since hes been a positive since 09/10. id say his 48 games here at -7 dont amount to much.

hes not gonna be a game breaker, but he wont be a detriment that seems to be the pervailing notion of him here.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

since hes been a positive since 09/10. id say his 48 games here at -7 dont amount to much.

hes not gonna be a game breaker, but he wont be a detriment that seems to be the pervailing notion of him here.

It does when his position on the other teams is different than where he was here. He was on the third line in Dallas and on the 4th here. The bulk of his career, he barely stays above water on the differential except for one season but again those were on 3rd lines with better players than our 4th liners. When you get paid like he does, you have to be more than just a body. You have to be contributing more positives than negatives and I don't believe he does that.

 

[do0glas]

well, his 800k too much seems worse due to the cap crunch. when it goes up and we have space i doubt its a problem.

i bet its likely he is here through 2014/15. possibly flipped at the deadline depending on his play.

this season hes probably our starting 4C. time we move on.

 

[Lebanezer]

They can't play that game with LTIR like they did with regular IR.

Blast!

 

[hockfan1991]

It does when his position on the other teams is different than where he was here. He was on the third line in Dallas and on the 4th here. The bulk of his career, he barely stays above water on the differential except for one season but again those were on 3rd lines with bettering he co players than our 4th liners. When you get paid like he does, you have to be more than just a body. You have to be contributing more positives than negatives and I don't believe he does that.

Agree with this completely. He brings little to the game. People talk about his pk abilities. But he's barely third tier in that category. If he could go. 10g 10a he could be worth something until then waivers or Worcester is my hope. Especially if it comes down to hertl or him. Easy decesion

 

[LadyStanley]

brodiebrazilCSN 1:47pm via TweetDeck
Surprised to see Marty skating already. RT @walsha: Havlat, Milan Michalek and Huberdeau skating on a line now during scrimmage #sjsharks


Agent reporting Havlat is skating in Montreal (with some of his other clients).

 

[do0glas]

brodiebrazilCSN 1:47pm via TweetDeck
Surprised to see Marty skating already. RT @walsha: Havlat, Milan Michalek and Huberdeau skating on a line now during scrimmage #sjsharks


Agent reporting Havlat is skating in Montreal (with some of his other clients).

does this affect our ability to put him on LTIR?

how can a doctor say hes unfit to play when hes publically training etc?

 

[Barrie22]

does this affect our ability to put him on LTIR?

how can a doctor say hes unfit to play when hes publically training etc?

maybe because, the team actually is in the know of what is going on with havlat, and that was the plan the entire time?

hence why the sharks have not been busy (at all) in free agency and have continued to stay at the 400k over the cap (easy cap dump into minors and they are back above ground with the cap.

just because some people on here said it would take months and months to heal up, doesn't mean it will actually take a professional hockey player to take months and months to heal up.

 

[sr228]

does this affect our ability to put him on LTIR?

how can a doctor say hes unfit to play when hes publically training etc?

They still have about 6 weeks to figure out whether or not he'll need to start the season on LTIR.

Just because he's skating / training, which he's been doing for a couple weeks, doesn't mean much. The timeline I heard right after the surgery was 4-6 months and it seems like he is on track but skating and playing in an actual game are very different things.

If Havlat is healthy enough to play at the start the season there is no reason they'd need to put him on LTIR. There's very little question that the team is better with him then without him but I'd wait for an update from either him or the org before worrying about where he's at and what might happen come October 3rd.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Who's to say he didn't hurt himself while skating?

 

[Kitten Mittons]

Havlat was skating during the playoffs too. Don't mean a thing.

 

[Led Zappa]

Havlat was skating during the playoffs too. Don't mean a thing.

It means more coming off of surgery than it does hoping your groin has had enough time off.

 

[crunchyblack*]

Dobber seems to think Havlat sees 50 games this season.

So Martin Havlat was skating around and lighting it up in a charity hockey game and I asked his agent Allan Walsh how his health is. I figured that, with the seriousness of his abdominal surgery and the way the Sharks GM Doug Wilson was talking, that Havlat was questionable even just to play again. Walsh told me that the surgery was in May and that he's "100% and flying out on the ice". Take that for what it's worth (with a grain of salt, since he is after all Havlat's agent), but I have some work to do in the Fantasy Guide. I had him pegged for 15 games and now I think 50 is a safe bet. Changes such as that one would have a domino effect in the Guide, on the likes of Tomas Hertl, Tyler Kennedy and James Sheppard. Aren't you glad the Guide gets updated?

http://hockey.dobbersports.com/inde...enu-89/archived-ramblings/5844-august-25-2013

 

[Linkster]

Marty Havlat, domino effect. World changer! Who knew?

I'm still gonna comment on how mediocre his new jersey looks.

 

[LeeIFBB]

I really want to visit the parallel universe that contains a healthy Martin Havlat and a Doug Wilson with a pasty complexion.

 

[ScottyDont]

So doesn't a healthy Havlat mean less NHL time for Hertl? (due to going over salary cap)

 

[Pinkfloyd]

So doesn't a healthy Havlat mean less NHL time for Hertl? (due to going over salary cap)

Most likely but they do have options on making it so he can be put in. However, chances are if Havlat's healthy to start the season, Hertl probably gets top line time in Worcester for a while while they build up cap space for him like they did with Logan Couture in his first year with the big club.