Has Messi surpassed Gretzky/Jordan and others as the GOAT for all sports?

[TheStatican]

After Messi's performance and victory in the recent world cup I've heard this argument being brought up in conversation more than ever. All three have achieved simular levels of dominace in their respective sports and they are commonly regarded along with a handful of others such as Mohammed Ali, Jerry Rice, Babe Ruth, Tiger Woods, Serena Williams, Usain Bolt, Roger Federer (to name a few others but not all) as amongst the greatest athletes of all time. The one thing that Messi has over all the others is that he has achieved an almost unparalleled level of domiance in the biggest sport in the world. In soccer history he is seemingly only matched by Pele but that was when the sport was smaller.

Now I'm not a big soccer fan by any means, the sport barely even registers in my mind outside of the world cup but I do recognize the fact that it is the biggest and most popular sport in the world and has been for quite some time now. This is relevant in this conversation because it means that it has the largest talent pool to draw from. This should make it much more difficult for any single individual to come along and dominate the sport and there should be many players at the top vying to be recognized as the sports best player year in year out and yet Messi has been largerly unrivaled for that title.

Seeing as how this is a hockey forum I think we all know which way the result will trend towards.... But I'm still curious about it and the arguments for and against. So what say you?

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[tabness]

dont even know who he is

 

[ViD]

Still Gretz

dont even know who he is

Time to get out of your cave bud

 

[Korpse]

He is absolutely is. The argument over Jordan and Gretzky is a pretty easy one. Two great athletes but they do play very niche sports. Their competitive field is infinitely smaller. I think a lot of people in NA don't realize how competitive the sport is around the rest of the world, and to be ahead of the field in the manner that Messi has been, is a greater accomplishment.

 

[bsu]

Tiger & Secretariat

 

[FrozenJagrt]

I don't know that he has separated himself from the likes of Ronaldo and Pele in the way that Gretzky or Bradman did from the rest of the pack to say this.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Gretzky is the most dominate athlete over his sport ever. That is his claim. Messi being the GOAT of a sport that has a global player base is his claim, while not as singularly dominate over his sport as Gretzky. I would still lean towards Wayne.

 

[Primary Assist]

Gretzky also won a gold medal

 

[Mirka the Turka]

No, Messi benefitted a lot from amazing Barcelona teams to get all the goals he scored as well as UEFA basically gifting Barca numerous games in the champions league.

And the refs helped greatly with Argentina this year. I would rate Tom Brady and Gretzky over Messi any day of the week.

 

[Esko6]

Gretzky is the most dominate athlete over his sport ever. That is his claim. Messi being the GOAT of a sport that has a global player base is his claim, while not as singularly dominate over his sport as Gretzky. I would still lean towards Wayne.

Some say Donald Bradman is the most dominant, his stats are way above his competitors.

Don Bradman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AD1066]

Hockey is (by far) my favorite sport, but it's too niche for me to consider Gretzky the greatest athlete in sports. It's simply "easier" to become the world's greatest hockey player, compared to the world's greatest footballer/soccer player. Which is still say, still exceptionally difficult, but you're competing against predominantly upper-middle class white guys from colder climates.

 

[Machinehead]

I know people don't want to hear this but I think the GOAT at soccer is kind of at the top by default.

Well over a billion people watched that game yesterday.

It's a talent pool and a sphere of influence that no other sport touches.

 

[Korpse]

Gretzky also won a gold medal

Olympic Gold? Not as a player. Messi has though.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

I think there's an argument that can be made for Messi among team sports. As for athletic dominance however it's very difficult to put him ahead of Michael Phelps. For comparison Phelps has 23 Olympic gold medals, the next closest person has 9. He has 28 medals in total with the next closest having 18, and 3rd place being 12.

There's also a guy in Cricket named Sir Donald Bradman. I don't know a ton about Cricket personally, but I did see a video of someone explaining his dominance of the sport, and it's actually unreal how much better he was than his peers.

You could make the argument that Swimming and Cricket are more niche sports so the dominance is not as impressive, but as a whole their level of dominance is still ahead of Messi without regard to popularity.

 

[Signupnow]

Once again. One million people play hockey and those players are the ones who has rich enough parents to support their kids doing so which narrow down the talent pool more than it already has. 260 million people play soccer, in a sport everyone has acesss too which makes the talent pool even more competitive among those hundreds of millions.

This makes it hundreds of times harder to become the goat in football than in ice hockey by sheer numbers. And then we don't take into consideration that hockey is only for those who can afford it. Perhaps there are better player than Gretzky who didn't have the means enough to play. Everyone can play football which remotes that doubt.

It baffles to me that some of you think they are even comparable to any degree. It's like I walked into a forum among the community of the wrong turn movie, if anybody has seen it, not a good one btw.

Realize this sport of hockey is like badminton in the eyes of the rest of the world or female volleyball.

Sure I love it but it is what it is.

 

[Beerz]

He is absolutely is. The argument over Jordan and Gretzky is a pretty easy one. Two great athletes but they do play very niche sports. Their competitive field is infinitely smaller. I think a lot of people in NA don't realize how competitive the sport is around the rest of the world, and to be ahead of the field in the manner that Messi has been, is a greater accomplishment.

I came in thinking Gretz pretty easily.

Your argument changed my mind.

Well done.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, while I have a huge hard-on for insane Gretzky facts, Messi's numbers also jump off the page.

He had 672 goals for Barcelona in 778 games. He had 50 in a 38-game season. You have to keep in mind that this is altogether a much lower-scoring sport.

It isn't like comparing Gretzky to a midfielder who might have 10 goals. It's like comparing to Gretzky to Gretzky, but one Gretzky has more competition.

 

[amnesiac]

(im not including women)

Jordan.... I mean, he wouldve had 8 championships AND 8 MVPs in 8 years. Lets not kid ourselves
Gretzky.... his records speak for themselves
Brady..... I believe QB to be the toughest position in all sport. He was the best, no question.
Messi
Ruth.... Best hitter ever, maybe the hardest "thing" to do in sports, and pitched quite well too
Woods/Nicklaus.... take your pick. They both dominated a sport where you face hundreds.
Djokovic.... say what you want about the guy, hes the greatest ever, and isnt close to being done.
Richie McCaw..... dont know enough about the sport, but if youre said to be the GOAT off rugby, then youre one HELL of an athlete.

 

[Hanji]

Hockey is so much easier to dominate than other sports. Hockey's talent pool is absurdly small.
Our sport isn't even in the top 10 of sports played globally.

Messi takes this quite easily.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

No one has clearly surpassed the rest of the field. No one ever will.

 

[TheNumber4]

I’m leaning towards yes, cause it’s harder to be the best Footballer than the best Basketball player or Hockey Player just due to sheer numbers of players.

 

[ricky0034]

dont even know who he is

I think it's a nickname for this guy:

tough to think of anything more "Messi" than eating that many hot dogs

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Yup. I would say so.

 

[BerthMania]

If we purely talk greatest athlete in my view, I know it's very controversial, but I'd go Lance Armstrong. I know he doped, but it was the norm in his era. Winning that many consecutive Tour de France (I think 6 or 7) is incredible. I think pro cycling is by far the hardest sport in the world. It's the only sport in which suffering is that prevalent on a day to day basis. So in my view he's the greatest athlete ever.

 

[treple13]

I always love how passionate people get over a completely unanswerable question. Trying to compare players from different sports is sort of silly