Salary Cap: Gustafsson vs Murphy

[AmericanDream]

Big caveat, goalies develop later than skaters. Duncan Keith won the Norris at 26 and should have won the Conn Smythe that year too.

I honestly am curious, what do you think Gus does next year? let's assume, he stays put, plays on the same #1 pp unit and randomly switching partners...do you think Gus performs like he did this year, possibly better or will decline next year? honest question for where you view him at for next season. next year only is all I am asking.

 

[Illinihockey]

I honestly am curious, what do you think Gus does next year? let's assume, he stays put, plays on the same #1 pp unit and randomly switching partners...do you think Gus performs like he did this year, possibly better or will decline next year? honest question for where you view him at for next season. next year only is all I am asking.

I think he’ll score a good amount, but probably not at this level. He’ll continue to be a disaster in his own half. The hawks defense will be bad and unfortunately so will the Hawks.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I see Gus regressing slightly offensively (hard to get better than where he is at the last 25games), and maybe getting slightly better defensively.

 

[Pez68]

Interesting fact.

13 of the last 30 Norris winners were UNDER 30 years of age.

Another interesting fact:

Only 7 of them were 26 or younger.

So for those keeping track, 23 of the last 30 Norris winners were OLDER than Gus.

 

[AmericanDream]

I think he’ll score a good amount, but probably not at this level. He’ll continue to be a disaster in his own half. The hawks defense will be bad and unfortunately so will the Hawks.

okay, we obviously disagree on what a disaster is, but was just curious for your take.

 

[Pez68]

okay, we obviously disagree on what a disaster is, but was just curious for your take.

 

[clydesdale line]

Nik Lidstrom was a better defenseman from ages 30-40 than he was from 20-30. He was 31, 32, 33, 36, 37, 38, and 41 when he won his Norris trophies.

Defensemen ALSO develop slower and peak later than forwards.

I like the examples that have been listed except this one. Lidstrom was the exception, not the rule. That dude was a cyborg. Miles better than Keith is at his age.

 

[Pez68]

I'm not sure why you don't like the example. He is one of a long list of defensemen that were better in their 30s than their 20s.

 

[AmericanDream]

I'm not sure why you don't like the example. He is one of a long list of defensemen that were better in their 30s than their 20s.

he was pretty damn good to begin with, which might be his point...he was always good

 

[clydesdale line]

he was pretty damn good to begin with, which might be his point...he was always good

Exactly.

 

[ClydeLee]

I'm curious why people think Gus will perform less offensively going forward. Like under what basis is this? Just the team not scoring as well? Because Gus isnt riding some high luck or crazy above expected goal performance. He is actually generating the high amount of chances that have lead to goals.

Meanwhile in contrast Murphy while the best defender on the team has had a string of better results than he really is good for.

 

[Dr Salt]

Gus is a special player, its very rare to find such a player in the NHL with his capabilities. Murphy is dime a dozen and overpriced, this is an easy choice who to keep if you had to keep one. I wouldnt lose any sleep losing Murphy, Gus on the other hand even though at the begining I was on the fence trading him he is not easily replaced no matter how you look at it... Also no GM will take Murphy with is contract.

That is something else I was thinking about, unless he breaks out no one is going to take the contract without payment. He's solid but not worth his pay grade yet. And that is why it is still too early to truly say, Murphy can break out to be such a player that 4 million would suggest or on the contrary be an untouchable contract.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Depends on what Gus's next contract is expected to be.

Thinking he will continue to be a 60+ pt dman like he looks he will be this year is likely not going to happen. Figure he regresses to be 45 pt dman who has real issues in his own zone and needs to be sheltered and can't play PK, what's that exactly worth cap wise?

Really hard to say. While Murphy isn't flashy and near 4 mil, you can play him in almost any situation except PP whereas Gus is the opposite

 

[ChiHawks10]

So much delusion in this thread.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

I think a lot of people are hard on Gus defensively. Sometimes rightfully so, other times not so much. But I think most of us would be over the moon he developed into that true number 1 guy. He’s already top 10 offensively. At times he’s showed he could be improving defensively.

However, in order for him to be taking that next step, he needs to have a better supporting cast. You can’t expect him to play lights out paired with Koekkoek, no offense to him. I think with some better pieces, he can take that next step forward, and we won’t have to wait and wish for one of the kids to turn into a number one, which would help tremendously.

 

[jls24]

Depends on what Gus's next contract is expected to be.

Thinking he will continue to be a 60+ pt dman like he looks he will be this year is likely not going to happen. Figure he regresses to be 45 pt dman who has real issues in his own zone and needs to be sheltered and can't play PK, what's that exactly worth cap wise?

Really hard to say. While Murphy isn't flashy and near 4 mil, you can play him in almost any situation except PP whereas Gus is the opposite

I'd kill to have Murphy on PP2 just to not have to watch both Keith and Seabs stand around at the blue line refusing to leave their assigned Q-posts regardless of how much ice is in front of them.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

I'm not sure why you don't like the example. He is one of a long list of defensemen that were better in their 30s than their 20s.

Lidstrom was amazing before 30 too, but the NHL didn't give him any props due to his non-physical defensive style.

Back then, defence was being tough, hitting, roughing someone up to get the puck, which was okay since it was allowed.

Lidstrom played elite defence for years WITHOUT all that, but was only looked on as a weak Euro.

Rhat was the stubborn NHL-culture's fault, not Nick's.

 

[BK]

Lidstrom was amazing before 30 too, but the NHL didn't give him any props due to his non-physical defensive style.

Back then, defence was being tough, hitting, roughing someone up to get the puck, which was okay since it was allowed.

Lidstrom played elite defence for years WITHOUT all that, but was only looked on as a weak Euro.

Rhat was the stubborn NHL-culture's fault, not Nick's.

A legit arguement can be made for Lidstrom being the best D ever...

 

[Pez68]

Lidstrom was amazing before 30 too, but the NHL didn't give him any props due to his non-physical defensive style.

Back then, defence was being tough, hitting, roughing someone up to get the puck, which was okay since it was allowed.

Lidstrom played elite defence for years WITHOUT all that, but was only looked on as a weak Euro.

Rhat was the stubborn NHL-culture's fault, not Nick's.

He absolutely was amazing before 30. I firmly believe he was a much, much better defensemen in his 30s, though. He was playing more minutes, putting up more points, had some absolutely ridiculous +- numbers, and was winning Norris trophies and championships... By every measurable variable, he was a better player in his 30s. Period.

His highest scoring seasons came at 35, 29, 30, 37, 25, 32, 36, and 40.

His highest plus-minus seasons were 23, 32, 36, 37, 31, 38, 25, and 27.

The argument isn't whether or not he was GREAT in his 20's. The argument is that he was even BETTER in his 30's. I'm not sure how you can argue he wasn't.

Were Bourque, Coffey, Leetch and MacInnis really know for being tough, hard hitting defensemen? I certainly don't remember them that way. Those were some of the guys winning Norris trophies when Lidstrom was in his 20's.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Where is everyone at on this now?

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I'm on the fence. I'm higher on Gus than most but I'm also super high on Boqvist so I think it would be proper asset management to move Gus. Murphy is probably gone in the expansion draft. I don't think either player will be a Blackhawk past 2020. That said, a compliance buyout for Seabrook changes a lot of things, should it happen. One can only hope.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I like Murphy more

 

[Styles]

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Where is everyone at on this now?

Your phone is on 1% and this is what you choose to do with that 1%? Bump a thread from February?

Just playing, but I would keep both for now with the moves we made it’s clear they are going for the playoffs. Keeping both will help get us there.

 

[BrianE]

Would rather keep Gus because of his ability to move the puck (something we lack big time) and quarterback our pp.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

View attachment 241613

Where is everyone at on this now?

1% juice with an alarm set...generational screenshot