Management Guerin under investigation

[thestonedkoala]

It's a lot easier to be the 2nd to come forward with something than it is being the 1st one to speak up. There is only 1 questions that matters: . If the answer is yes, then the next question is: who and when.

This isn't a case of right and wrong. It's a case of accountability.

I agree; but if these case are found to be true, as Wild fans we have to hold Guerin accountable for not creating an environment where employees could trust him enough to talk about this sort of thing. If Guerin didn't know about it, I don't know how you can move forward with Guerin and trust his judgment or his ability. There is always going to be a level of doubt.

Did you notify anyone within the organization of what happened? It the answer to that is no, then it's a dead end

I don't think it's necessarily a dead end, I think you need to ask why they didn't notify anyone in the organization and why no one came forward. Were they afraid of retaliation? Were they afraid that it wasn't going to be taken seriously?

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

Did you miss this?

they fired him.... how's that tolerating?

 

[2Pair]

they fired him.... how's that tolerating?

No, they didn't

 

[MuckOG]

I agree; but if these case are found to be true, as Wild fans we have to hold Guerin accountable for not creating an environment where employees could trust him enough to talk about this sort of thing. If Guerin didn't know about it, I don't know how you can move forward with Guerin and trust his judgment or his ability. There is always going to be a level of doubt.



I don't think it's necessarily a dead end, I think you need to ask why they didn't notify anyone in the organization and why no one came forward. Were they afraid of retaliation? Were they afraid that it wasn't going to be taken seriously?

A lot of "ifs" and pure speculation in there.

 

[MuckOG]

I agree, but since this started, Wild fans have been very dismissive of this case and I don't think a lot of them took it seriously, similar to what the NHL has been doing. There is also a lot of victim blaming going on here and while skepticism is healthy, the amount of skepticism being presented here is sad. Since this started, I have and repeatedly have been calling for a more thorough investigation into the matter, while most have dismissed it or have blamed the victim.

-- I haven't seen very many posts blaming the victim for getting assaulted, but I think its fair to ask questions, don't you? Asking why it took 7 months for Skalde to bring this to Guerin's attention is a valid question to pose. Asking why they haven't pursued criminal charges and are only looking to sue for money is also a fair question and has nothing to do with blaming the victim.

 

[ThatGuy22]

That's what the investigation is for; but brushing it aside and lumping it together with the whistleblowing case is disingenuous here.

But more than that, Guerin was Donatelli's boss. The fact that this second allegation came up is enough to raise an eyebrow at Guerin and how well he knew Donatelli.

IF and this is a big IF this is true and Guerin either a) didn't know or b) did know and brushed it aside, that is a huge deal. I don't know how you can hire a coach and not get to know them or have others in the organization not know him and bring up concerns.

Donetelli had been coach for 3 years when the AHL responsibilities were given to Guerin roughly a year before the incident. He inherited him.

Also BG was still based out of Pittsburgh, not like he was seeing him everyday.

GM of the AHL squad is pretty much just figuring out who to grab from the ECHL scrap head when your short due to NHL callups and injuries.

And let's be clear, Skalde worked with Donnetelli daily and didn't seem to think anything of his wife protesting sitting in the backseat with him(which according to their lawsuit she did).

If it was so well known, I'd think that would have given him pause.

Tough to act if people don't report it.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I agree; but if these case are found to be true, as Wild fans we have to hold Guerin accountable for not creating an environment where employees could trust him enough to talk about this sort of thing. If Guerin didn't know about it, I don't know how you can move forward with Guerin and trust his judgment or his ability. There is always going to be a level of doubt.



I don't think it's necessarily a dead end, I think you need to ask why they didn't notify anyone in the organization and why no one came forward. Were they afraid of retaliation? Were they afraid that it wasn't going to be taken seriously?

Does your boss know what you do all day every day? If you were harassing/assaulting people is it your bosses fault?

You seem to want Guerin to be guilty of something, anything, while everyone else is asking questions. Why? Who? Where? When?

 

[thestonedkoala]

Does your boss know what you do all day every day? If you were harassing/assaulting people is it your bosses fault?

At the end of the day, if you're committing crimes than yes, it is. There has been many documented cases where bosses are fired for what their employees have done.

You seem to want Guerin to be guilty, while everyone else is asking questions. Why? Who? Where? When?

No one has been asking questions until recently. And it's more that I want everyone held accountable.

 

[Minnewildsota]

At the end of the day, if you're committing crimes than yes, it is. There has been many documented cases where bosses are fired for what their employees have done.



No one has been asking questions until recently. And it's more that I want everyone held accountable.

So if you’re out at a bar harassing women, it’s your bosses fault. Got it.

I get holding people responsible, but there’s nothing to hold them responsible to until evidence comes out stating they did something wrong

 

[ThatGuy22]

No one has been asking questions until recently. And it's more that I want everyone held accountable.

Sure. Which is why you've already presupposed in this thread that if no one reported it to the Pens, it must be because BG created an atmosphere they felt they couldn't. Despite the evidence that when it was reported he acted swiftly and followed standard procedures.

Heads Skaldes win, tails BG loses.

 

[thestonedkoala]

So if you’re out at a bar harassing women, it’s your bosses fault. Got it.

Actually, yes. If you're out at a bar with colleagues harassing women and your boss ignores it and then that person assaults another, your boss can absolutely get canned. Or if you notice that your colleague is harassing others at the workplace and you ignore it, then yes, you can.

I get holding people responsible, but there’s nothing to hold them responsible to until evidence comes out stating they did something wrong

This has been a story for the past year, but the NHL never moved on it. It could have been a simple investigation and be done, but they decided to ignore it.

Sure. Which is why you've already presupposed in this thread that if no one reported it to the Pens, it must be because BG created an atmosphere they felt they couldn't. Despite the evidence that when it was reported he acted swiftly and followed standard procedures.

In one case, though it does bring up why they were having discussions about Donatelli's future and why Donatelli felt like moving on. As mentioned last year, there are a million questions to this case that the NHL and the media are ignoring (well for now). More so, Guerin has much, much more to do this story than just Skalde being fired. He was Donatelli's direct boss, so there is a ton of questions not being answered here.

Also accountable doesn't mean being fired. Accountable means answering questions. If Guerin proves that these were reported and that he sent them up to the Pens to get more investigation done and they didn't, that's on the Pens and Guerin is fine as he did what he should have. But if Guerin investigated it and then buried it or not talk to HR about it, then more questions need to be asked.

 

[Bazeek]

I agree, but since this started, Wild fans have been very dismissive of this case and I don't think a lot of them took it seriously, similar to what the NHL has been doing. There is also a lot of victim blaming going on here and while skepticism is healthy, the amount of skepticism being presented here is sad. Since this started, I have and repeatedly have been calling for a more thorough investigation into the matter, while most have dismissed it or have blamed the victim.

Can you point me to a post that you think does this?

 

[thestonedkoala]

Can you point me to a post that you think does this?

Curious as to why the Skaldes have not filed a criminal complaint against Donatelli? Do they want justice or is this about money?

they didnt go to the police, because they dont have any evidence to prove this happened without a reasonable doubt (the requirement to pass judgement in a legal case) because they waited nearly 8 months to even report this to anyone. Which is why it was never released publicly (because theres no proof it actually occured) and its all he said she said.

why would a corporation publicly announce something happened that they dont even know for certain happened?

 

[ThatGuy22]

Also accountable doesn't mean being fired. Accountable means answering questions. If Guerin proves that these were reported and that he sent them up to the Pens to get more investigation done and they didn't, that's on the Pens and Guerin is fine as he did what he should have. But if Guerin investigated it and then buried it or not talk to HR about it, then more questions need to be asked.

There hasn't been a single example of an allegation that was said to be reported and ignored.

2 or 3 separate accounts were in the initial lawsuit, but none of them said they were reported. The lawsuit used vague terms like apparently knew or should have known.

 

[Bazeek]

<quotes>

Maybe I'm being too rigid on what I consider "victim blaming" but I thought you meant people were blaming the Skaldes for Donatelli's actions. I'd agree that we don't really have enough information to question their side of things yet either, though.

 

[GordieGallant]

Zzzzzzzzzz

 

[thestonedkoala]

Maybe I'm being too rigid on what I consider "victim blaming" but I thought you meant people were blaming the Skaldes for Donatelli's actions. I'd agree that we don't really have enough information to question their side of things yet either, though.

This all could have been fixed if the NHL actually took reports like these seriously and followed up instead of sitting on their heels. Ultimately, I hope that the Beach and now this case gets the NHL to pull their head's out and actually follow up on this.

 

[Drewcifer]

So it seems like the people who already wanted Guerin gone see this as another reason why he should go while everyone else is taking a lets wait and see approach.

 

[ThatGuy22]

So it seems like the people who already wanted Guerin gone see this as another reason why he should go while everyone else is taking a lets wait and see approach.

I don't think that's necessarily the case.

I've been opposed to about 80% of the moves BG has made, and would have no problem canning him tomorrow.

Just don't see anything he did wrong here with the information we currently have.

Maybe I'm an outlier though.

 

[Wabit]

So it seems like the people who already wanted Guerin gone see this as another reason why he should go while everyone else is taking a lets wait and see approach.

I think most here are in the lets wait and see category. There are plenty of legitimate hockey reasons to want GMBG gone, it's much easier to make an argument based around those things instead of rumors, allegations, and supposition.

 

[2Pair]

I don't think that's necessarily the case.

I've been opposed to about 80% of the moves BG has made, and would have no problem canning him tomorrow.

Just don't see anything he did wrong here with the information we currently have.

Maybe I'm an outlier though.

Guerin actively participated in covering up a sexual assault

 

[MuckOG]

Guerin actively participated in covering up a sexual assault

Ok

 

[ThatGuy22]

Guerin actively participated in covering up a sexual assault

That's certainly one way of thinking about it.

Another is that the Pens followed standard hr/legal procedures that have evolved over decades of legal statues, criminal and civil case law. Plenty of which involves confidentiality of the accused in manners not being dealt with criminally.

I'm not going to fault BG for following legal advice from the professionals.

 

[2Pair]

That's certainly one way of thinking about it.

Another is that the Pens followed standard hr/legal procedures that have evolved over decades of legal statues, criminal and civil case law. Plenty of which involves confidentiality of the accused in manners not being dealt with criminally.

I'm not going to fault BG for following legal advice from the professionals.

That's exactly what's being called out. This isn't a legal case. Guerin isn't being charged with a crime. Guerin and Pittsburgh are being accused of putting themselves and their financial well being before a sexual assault victim.

People who dismiss something like this by saying " that's just SOP" is exactly what's wrong with this situation. It's also how teenagers in Houghton Michigan end up being sexually assaulted.

 

[ThatGuy22]

That's exactly what's being called out. This isn't a legal case. Guerin isn't being charged with a crime. Guerin and Pittsburgh are being accused of putting themselves and their financial well being before a sexual assault victim.

People who dismiss something like this by saying " that's just SOP" is exactly what's wrong with this situation. It's also how teenagers in Houghton Michigan end up being sexually assaulted.

I'm not dismissing it personally. I'm evaluating the evidence at hand(which is largely from the Skaldes lawsuit).

Everyone should get their due process. I don't think corporations are the right place to handle that due process, beyond doing what's right to create and maintain a safe work environment. Allegation was made, Skalde met with legal, and Donetelli resigned.

Nothing I've seen how that resignation happened has explained how that happened (option to resign or face investigation or resigning so he is no longer an employee that has to cooperate in an investigation).

There are no allegations from the Skaldes they wanted to go to the police and were rebuffed.

At that point, based on all the information I don't think it's the Pens job to try him in the court of public opinion.