Gretzky supposed to be on Fan590 momentarily (6:17 est)

[mooseOAK*]

On one of Pierre McGuire's Mtl. radio bits, he spoke of his interview with Goodenow some time ago. He asked him why they wouldn't negotiate the non cap issues in the meantime if they couldn't agree on a system. Goodenow flatly told him, no we're not doing it that way this time.

That way, if he loses on the cap issue he can try to get it back on some of the other issues such as arbitration, rookie max, salary floor, etc.

 

[mooseOAK*]

There will be no future negotiations. This thing is headed for impasse, implementation, and replacements, just as it was from the beginning. Maybe the 'PA comes out of their meeting next week looking for deal, but think it's just as likely they emerge more militant than ever, in which case this thing will get solved the ugly way.

I think that the owners, majority anyway, come out more militant than ever also. After overspending for years and then getting treated like crap by the players that the money was spent on they aren't going to be in the position of offering more favours.

 

[Digger12]

It's hard to see either side willing to negotiate with each other at this point. Both sides are looking at this with the viewpoint that they've given up too much to knuckle under now, the bitter end is the only way this sees a resolution.

And if that's the case, then I don't envision any scenario where the players can win this.

 

[mr gib]

I would imagine it would be easier to get those other little wins after agreeing to a cap. Use them as conditions of the cap.

Does it strike anyone as odd that Vincent Damphouse is heading up any sort of negotiation meeting? Pretty much sums up the PA if the players are actually hands on in terms of haggling instead of letting the people who trained to do it and were hired to do it carry out the negotiation. This is not anywhere close to their area of expertise. PArticipate in the talks, give input, understand the issues but any formal negotiation meeting should be run by the guys you hired who should have an intimate understanding and foresight to know what certain changes will bring on the horizon. Especially at that late date.

the lawyers for both parties are sitting right there -

 

[Wetcoaster]

Read Gretzky's statements carefully and listen to what he has said. It is also important to note what he has NOT said.

At no time does Gretzky ever say he was contacted by the NHLPA. Everything he talks about in the genesis of the meetings seems to come from what he was told by Gary Bettman. Is Bettman being truthful? You judge based on his past performance.

Here is what Gretzky said he was told by Bettman:

"Mario and I believed our role was going to be to do what we could to help the players get to the number that was going to get a deal done," Gretzky told the New York Post yesterday. "Gary never told me or led me to believe [the NHL] was coming to the meeting with a new proposal, or had committed to raising the hard cap number from the previous $42.5-million. Gary never told me the league was prepared to go to $45-million."

"You have to remember, this wasn't the NHL's meeting. If Gary had wanted to call another meeting, he would have done it Wednesday morning before he announced cancellation of the season."

So where is Gretzky getting this information? Nowhere does Gretzky say that the NHLPA told him they were coming to the table with a new offer - in fact Gretzky has never claimed to have spoken to anyone at the NHLPA. If that were the case I am sure that Gretzky would have said so. Bettman may have told him these things or Bettman may have implied them to Gretzky but the NHLPA did not say anything to Gretzky prior to the meeting according to what he has stated. Gretzky may have assumed the NHLPA called the meeting based on what information he had from Bettman but that is the most his statements support. Goodenow flatly denies this meeting was called by the NHLPA and provides details of how the meeting came about (see below).

Also Gretzky stated clearly that HE took both Trevor Linden and Vincent Damphousse aside to speak with them at the beginning of the meeting and that was when he realized that the NHLPA had a number of points of clarification to raise regarding the NHL offer before the issue of the cap was discussed. It was not just the cap level and it was not just Damphousse saying this. I am sure this was shock to him, particularly if Bettman had led him to believe otherwise.

"When the meeting began," Gretzky said, "I took Trevor and Vincent aside and asked how they thought we could bridge the gap between $42.5-million and $49-million to make it work. They told me they weren't prepared to talk about a hard cap number until the other issues like arbitration, qualifiers and entry level were done."

Here is Bob Goodenow's version of what took place:

1. Gary claims he heard that we wanted to have a meeting and talk to them. That is totally false – the League cancelled the season Wednesday, and on Thursday night, Gary and Bill Daly separately called Trevor Linden after 11 p.m. EST and invited Trevor and the NHLPA to come to New York for a meeting.

2. Friday morning, when arrangements for the League-requested meeting were being coordinated, Bill advised Trevor that Gary would not be attending on behalf of the League. As a result, I also did not attend.

3. There was never a suggestion by the NHLPA that we were making an offer. Our presence in New York only occurred because of the League’s request to meet.

4. As for Gary’s comments that we came to New York with the purpose of conducting a media campaign, that’s just erroneous and the facts prove this to be the case. When Trevor, Vincent Damphousse and Ted Saskin met with the media at the St.Regis Hotel they actually met in a room that had been reserved and fully set up by the League for their own media conference. The room was left vacant when the League attendees slipped out of the hotel after they decided not to address the media after the conclusion of the meeting they called. The hotel then offered us the use of this room to accommodate the media stranded outside on the sidewalk.

http://nhlpa.com/MediaReleases/ReleaseDetails.asp?mediaReleaseDisplayId={0149948B-FE44-4830-A1FA-FA318E54316B}

Here is how Gretzky summed up his feelings:

"People out there think I'm mad at one side or the other, or that I blame one side or the other for what happened in the meeting, but that isn't the case at all," Gretzky said.

"Right now, I'm just completely disappointed that we're in this situation and that we've been unable to come up with the solution that will get the game back on the ice."

If you are owner-centric you will probably believe Bettman's version, if your support the players you will likely believe Goodenow's version of events. This is no different than what has gone on for the past couple of years.

OTOH it may have been just another in long line of miscommunications and misunderstandings that seem to have characterized this dispute. Or it may have just been people being overly optimistic (and perhaps the media most of all - recall The Hockey News report and subsequent explanations) in the face of the impending loss of the 2004-2005 NHL season. The Hockey News reported based on a "source" that a deal was already done with a cap of $45 million, but both the NHLPA and NHL quickly dismissed that report.

Or it may have been a combination of all these factors.

The bottom line is that there was, and is, no deal. And the saga continues.

 

[Motown Beatdown]

I'm confused, how was Gretzky suppose to bridge the gap (49 and 42.5) when he had no idea what he could offer?

"When the meeting began," Gretzky said, "I took Trevor and Vincent aside and asked how they thought we could bridge the gap between $42.5-million and $49-million to make it work. They told me they weren't prepared to talk about a hard cap number until the other issues like arbitration, qualifiers and entry level were done."

Mario and I believed our role was going to be to do what we could to help the players get to the number that was going to get a deal done," Gretzky told the New York Post yesterday. "Gary never told me or led me to believe [the NHL] was coming to the meeting with a new proposal, or had committed to raising the hard cap number from the previous $42.5-million. Gary never told me the league was prepared to go to $45-million."

I guess it really doesn't matter anyways. This meeting was pretty much like the rest of them, pointless.

 

[futurcorerock]

It's hard to see either side willing to negotiate with each other at this point. Both sides are looking at this with the viewpoint that they've given up too much to knuckle under now, the bitter end is the only way this sees a resolution.

And if that's the case, then I don't envision any scenario where the players can win this.

I dont buy it -- the NHLPA caved on a philosophical point. They no longer have footing in these negotiations. They are just going to slide and the NHL has expressed interest in continuing the talks. This is exactly what will happen. The NHL will poke and prod at their body as it slides down the incline into their eventual cap-trap

 

[tantalum]

the lawyers for both parties are sitting right there -

I understand that. However, there is a difference in having a trained negotiator present and having that person control the meeting. It seems apparent from what has been said of this meeting that Damphouse was controlling the agenda and spearheading the talks that day. There are intricacies involved in negotiating and presenting your side etc etc etc you don't let someone not trained in how to negotiate do that in an important meeting. If I were to go further I would suggest you don't do those things in a meeting that you take seriously.

 

[bcrt2000]

I'm confused, how was Gretzky suppose to bridge the gap (49 and 42.5) when he had no idea what he could offer?

Gretzky was supposed to act as a mediator between the PA and Bill Daly. He was going to ask the PA what they thought was a way to bridge the gap, then go back to Daly and ask, and then *maybe* try to offer a creative suggestion, ie high threshhold tax, etc