Gretzky supposed to be on Fan590 momentarily (6:17 est)
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Interesting..... Bettman said he had dinner late with Wayne and Mario Friday night. Wayne said he missed out on dinner Friday night. Maybe Gary isn't such an honest guy......
- said he was surprised to hear at midnight on Friday (when he got to is hotel) that a deal was done even before he got to NY
- he said he and Mario thought they were there to help, that's all, and not be a part of negotiations
- union took him aside and said they wanted to work on this with he and Mario
- before PA gave any cap number they wanted to negotiate other issues first, and cap # never came up
- he left NY embarrassed
- sorry, lost the feed at this point.
- he said he and Mario thought they were there to help, that's all, and not be a part of negotiations
- union took him aside and said they wanted to work on this with he and Mario
- before PA gave any cap number they wanted to negotiate other issues first, and cap # never came up
- he left NY embarrassed
- sorry, lost the feed at this point.
ColoradoHockeyFan
Registered User
He made it pretty clear that the PA did not want to give their number for a cap until they had negotiated all of the other issues (arbitration, entry level, qualifying offers, etc.). There was clearly disagreement over these issues that they weren't able to overcome. He also said more than once that the difficulty in all of these other areas was unexpected by himself and Mario... they didn't realize there was such a gap in all of these other areas. Because they couldn't resolve these other issues, the PA did not want to give a cap number, so they never got to it.
ColoradoHockeyFan
Registered User
go kim johnsson said:
Though in a way, it's also maddening. I mean, they should be able to make a deal out of this. They should be working on hammering away at each of these other issues... hammering out qualifying offer details, hammering out entry level numbers, hammering out arbitration details, etc. They are now at a point where negotiating can actually be performed... by sliding each of these variables around, along with--possibly--even slight movement in the cap number itself. They should be negotiating all of this stuff, maybe even with the help of the moderators. There's no reason why they can't work with what they've got right now to hammer this out.
GKJ
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- Feb 27, 2002
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That's why I don't think it will even get to a point where replacement players are used. Both sides want to tell us their far apart, and maybe they're far apart in their willingness to concede, but I think they're really not all that far apart.
QO's, I think 90% works, the owners want 75%, that's an issue I will side with the owners on. Much like how I say if the owners don't want to spend money they shouldn't do it, well if the players want a better QO they should play it on the ice, I still say that number should be raised though.
QO's, I think 90% works, the owners want 75%, that's an issue I will side with the owners on. Much like how I say if the owners don't want to spend money they shouldn't do it, well if the players want a better QO they should play it on the ice, I still say that number should be raised though.
From TSN:
"Gretzky also told the paper that the night before the meeting Bettman had told him and Lemieux that even if an agreement was reached, there was no guarantee that a season would be able to be saved."
Seems like he had a meeting or talk with Bettman the evening before saturday's NHL/PA-meeting ...
"Gretzky also told the paper that the night before the meeting Bettman had told him and Lemieux that even if an agreement was reached, there was no guarantee that a season would be able to be saved."
Seems like he had a meeting or talk with Bettman the evening before saturday's NHL/PA-meeting ...
IcemanTBI
Registered User
ColoradoHockeyFan said:
I find this interesting. I would have thought alot of that would have already been negotiated and even agreed to in the earlier meetings? Interesting.
JoeLH said:
He confirmed that on the radio. He also confirmed the NHL wasn't going inthere to pitch $45 mil. The NHL was going in to listen to what the PA wad to offer. The PA had told Gretzky they were going to make a proposal when they asked for his help.
I felt a little sorry for Wayne when he confessed feeling some embarrassment. He reluctantly got involved to help out and the results were not grateful.
me2
Go ahead foot
ColoradoHockeyFan said:
Either
Damphousse wanted to sabotage the talks by bogging them down in the little stuff.
OR
Damphousse wanted to score a bunch of wins on little issues with the owners assuming a lower cap is coming. Then he'd offer a cap deal that wouldn't suit the NHL when combined with the little wins. Either the NHL accepts and gets shafted or rejects and looks like they killed it. PR stunt.
OR
He wanted either of the above.
----------------------------------------------------
Whatever happened the NHL was smart enough not to get sucked in on giving in on the little stuff without knowing what cap figure the NHLPA had in mind.
NYFAN said:
i recall him saying he met them for dinner, but he was late and they were finishing up, and he joined them... ie he arrived late and they were finished eating... point is he was there meeting them Friday night late.
I would imagine it would be easier to get those other little wins after agreeing to a cap. Use them as conditions of the cap.
Does it strike anyone as odd that Vincent Damphouse is heading up any sort of negotiation meeting? Pretty much sums up the PA if the players are actually hands on in terms of haggling instead of letting the people who trained to do it and were hired to do it carry out the negotiation. This is not anywhere close to their area of expertise. PArticipate in the talks, give input, understand the issues but any formal negotiation meeting should be run by the guys you hired who should have an intimate understanding and foresight to know what certain changes will bring on the horizon. Especially at that late date.
Does it strike anyone as odd that Vincent Damphouse is heading up any sort of negotiation meeting? Pretty much sums up the PA if the players are actually hands on in terms of haggling instead of letting the people who trained to do it and were hired to do it carry out the negotiation. This is not anywhere close to their area of expertise. PArticipate in the talks, give input, understand the issues but any formal negotiation meeting should be run by the guys you hired who should have an intimate understanding and foresight to know what certain changes will bring on the horizon. Especially at that late date.
tantalum said:
Exaclty, but anyone who believes that Damphouse wasn't instructed to take this position by Goodenow and Saskin is fooling themselves.
Thunderstruck said:
What all sources now report happened at the meeting shows beyond doubt that it was a setup. The PA leaked that they'd go to $45 on the cap and with that as the backdrop, tried to get a big movement on the other issues. They had no intention of making a deal without huge concessions and the whole thing was just a fraud on their part.
If they'd really wanted to make a deal they'd have just come in and said right away that they'd go to $45 on the cap but needed some givebacks on the other points.
Total frauds.
mcphee
Registered User
On one of Pierre McGuire's Mtl. radio bits, he spoke of his interview with Goodenow some time ago. He asked him why they wouldn't negotiate the non cap issues in the meantime if they couldn't agree on a system. Goodenow flatly told him, no we're not doing it that way this time.
mcphee said:
Bottom line is that, as Bettman's said several times, the sides aren't even close to a deal.
Larionov
Registered User
Riddarn said:Meaning = First focus on winning the pissing contest, then worry about the practicalities. Lovely. Bodes well for future negotiations.
There will be no future negotiations. This thing is headed for impasse, implementation, and replacements, just as it was from the beginning. Maybe the 'PA comes out of their meeting next week looking for deal, but think it's just as likely they emerge more militant than ever, in which case this thing will get solved the ugly way.
go kim johnsson said:
Either Goodenow and/or Saskin instructed Damphouse to do this stonewalling or he did it on his own. Either they gave him a poor strategy or they let a guy without the necessary expereince lead a crucial negotiation meeting or the executive had little faith left in Saskin/Goodenow. Either way it raises questions about the PA leadership IMO.
Larionov said:
I don't think so yet. They wait a bit more to see if the union membership begins to wake up to the ill-fated strategy their executive had (i.e. the union meeting next week). Regardless of whether or not the membership gives the executive hell the NHL will give it one more try. But I fully expect that if come draft time no agreement is in place the replacement player route becomes realistic. Judging from the comments they are all but guaranteeing a timely start to the next season.
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