Goaltender Game-by-Game Logs (1965-66 to present) and research questions

[Canadiens1958]

Formalized Scoring

I agree that scorers may have had discretion in the past (although I'd like to see that documented, since I'm not aware of it).

Regardless, in the example you cited, Morissette allowed the fourth Toronto goal, which was the game-winning goal. Therefore, he should be credited by the loss even under today's standards.

Better served by determining when NHL scoring was actually formalized throughout the years. When clear directives and procedures were first established for specific situations.

1963-64 points to a lack of formalized TOI scoring rules. Jean- Guy Morisette game hilites how playing time was rounded to the nearest minute for goalies, creating a unique situation where a GA could have been attributed to Worsley at 3:54 of the 2nd period of the game instead of Morisette who actually allowed it.

 

[Doctor No]

Your point seems to be a matter of what the league displays as total minutes played, not what the actual record is under the hood (the specific situation you describe is not weird - Morissette played 36:22, which rounds to 36 minutes).

(I'd prefer to keep this thread on the topic of resolving the discrepancies if possible).

 

[Doctor No]

1970-71 logs are up!

Probably easiest to see here:
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/logs/NHL1970.html

But each goaltender's page is updated (under NHL GAME LOGS), and I'll update my hand-spun statistics (strength of schedule, game variability, goal support) over the weekend.

Just random things I noticed as I was checking out the team logs:

• I need to double check this, but Ernie Wakely probably has the longest streak to start a season without a below-average game. Seventeen games (including two partials) before he had a bad one, December 9 vs. the Flyers. Maniago also had a great start to begin the year (going until December 19th, but splitting more starts).
• Statistically, people talk about how well Dryden played against the Bruins in the playoffs (and he did). Cheevers also played well, with the exception of game six.
• Roger Crozier was *streaky* - granted, as an expansion team, the Sabres were probably happy for that. String of green, string of red, string of green, string of red...
• If you want to see the effects of goalie fatigue, check out Gary Smith with the Golden Seals.
• Smokey McLeod starting the Red Wings' final game sticks out like a sore thumb.
• What might have been? Rogie Vachon was playing great pre-Dryden, but the game on March 13 against Chicago was the game prior to Dryden's NHL debut.
• I don't know the answer, but five consecutive above-average playoff games for Ed Giacomin has to be close to the mark.
• I don't recall why Les Binkley's final game was a 33-save shutout on March 3rd, against the Canadiens of all teams. He didn't play again.
• This was the year that Jacques Plante put up a 94.4% save percentage - whole lotta green on the Maple Leafs' chart.
• Glenn Hall had a surprisingly good last NHL season.

 

[Doctor No]

Goalies who made their NHL debut in 1970-71 (click on names):

• Ken Brown
• Ken Dryden
• Gerry Gray
• Paul Hoganson
• Murray McLachlan
• Don McLeod
• Gilles Meloche
• Cam Newton
• Michel Plasse
• Jim Rutherford
• Bob Sneddon

Their game logs are now complete on the site.

Goalies whose last NHL season was in 1970-71 (click on names):

• Ken Brown
• Glenn Hall
• Charlie Hodge
• Paul Hoganson
• Murray McLachlan
• Jack Norris
• Bob Sneddon
• Chris Worthy

I've always loved some of these guys (and some are genuinely quite loveable), and now there are some records.

 

[Killion]

^^^ Thats awesome. Yeomans work putting that all together. Well done!... Cam Newton huh? Even got old Cam in there.

 

[Doctor No]

Thanks! I think a lot people aren't aware of the "real" Cam Newton:

 

[Doctor No]

Highest percentage of home games, 1970-71 (minimum 20 games played with team):

• Charlie Hodge, 72%
• Jacques Plante, 66%
• Roy Edwards, 66%
• Ed Giacomin, 59%
• Les Binkley, 58%

Hodge is interesting - in his last season, was he there to sell tickets in Vancouver?

Lowest percentage of home games, 1970-71 (minimum 20 games played with team):

• Bruce Gamble, 24%
• Dunc Wilson, 27%
• Gilles Villemure, 38%
• Dave Dryden, 39%
• Gerry Desjardins, 39%

 

[Doctor No]

Top quartile teams in the 1970-71 NHL season were: Boston, Chicago, Montreal, and the New York Rangers (counted at 50%) - since there are 14 teams, the top 3.5 teams are the "top quartile".

One would expect that 25% of a goaltender's games would be played against top quartile teams. Of course, if you're *on* a top quartile team, you can't play yourself (hopefully that's obvious, but it lends insight into the following).

Highest percentage of 1970-71 games played against top quartile teams (minimum 20 games):

• Joe Daley, 36%
• Ernie Wakely, 33%
• Bruce Gamble (TOR), 32%
• Roy Edwards, 31%
• Dunc Wilson, 31%
• Bernie Parent (PHI), 31%

Lowest percentage of 1970-71 games played against top quartile teams (minimum 20 games):

• Gump Worsley, 15%
• Jacques Plante, 15%
• Jim Rutherford, 16%
• Cesare Maniago, 16%
• Phil Myre, 16%

I'll want to explore Plante's low number here juxtaposed with his terrific customary statistics.

I made a comment about Esposito typically being sheltered in his career - he played 20% of his minutes against top-quartile teams.

Bottom-quartile teams in 1970-71 are California, Detroit, Buffalo, and Vancouver (counted at 50%). Also rare that an expansion team isn't a (full) bottom quartile team, but California and Detroit were impressive in their own ways.

Highest percentage of 1970-71 games played against bottom quartile teams (minimum 20 games):

• Bruce Gamble (TOR), 39%
• Phil Myre, 38%
• Ed Giacomin, 35%
• Bernie Parent (PHI), 35%
• Cesare Maniago, 34%

Eagle eyes will note that both Bruce Gamble (with Toronto) and Bernie Parent (with Philadelphia) were on the "most frequent" list for top teams and for bottom teams - this is odd. For Gamble, it means that only 29% of his games were played against the 50% of the teams in the middle.

You'll also recall that Gamble and Parent were traded for one another in this season.

Lowest percentage of 1970-71 games played against bottom quartile teams (minimum 20 games):

• Dave Dryden, 5%
• Roy Edwards, 11%
• Gerry Desjardins, 12%
• Joe Daley, 16%
• Gilles Villemure, 16%

Only 5% of Dave Dryden's minutes with the Sabres were against bottom quartile teams.

 

[Doctor No]

All minimum 20 games played with team.

Toughest schedules overall, 1970-71 (level of opponent):

• Dunc Wilson, +0.30
• Joe Daley, +0.19
• Bruce Gamble (TOR), +0.16
• Jack Norris, +0.11
• Ernie Wakely, +0.09

The way to interpret this is that Dunc Wilson's average opponent would be favored by +0.30 goals in a game against an average team on neutral ice.

Weakest schedules overall, 1970-71 (level of opponent):

• Jacques Plante, -0.43
• Cesare Maniago, -0.37
• Glenn Hall, -0.30
• Gerry Cheevers, -0.24
• Rogie Vachon, -0.20
• Ed Giacomin, -0.20

What stands out about this list? All pretty solid names.

Toughest schedules overall, 1970-71 (shooting percentage):

• Joe Daley, +4.0%
• Bruce Gamble (TOR), +3.1%
• Ernie Wakely, +2.4%
• Les Binkley, +2.0%
• Gary Smith, +1.9%

Weakest schedules overall, 1970-71 (shooting percentage):

• Jacques Plante, -6.0%
• Gerry Cheevers, -4.6%
• Glenn Hall, -3.6%
• Gerry Desjardins, -3.5%
• Roger Crozier, -2.5%

Clearly, one reason that Jacques Plante had a historically-high save percentage in 1970-71 was that his opponents weren't particularly good shooters.

 

[Doctor No]

Let's look at consistency next.

Most consistent NHL goalies, 1970-71:

• Gerry Desjardins, 0.75
• Jacques Plante, 0.79
• Gerry Cheevers, 0.81
• Rogie Vachon, 0.86
• Ed Johnston, 0.87

Least consistent NHL goalies, 1970-71:

• Jim Rutherford, 1.27
• Bruce Gamble (TOR), 1.27
• Glenn Hall, 1.22
• Gary Smith, 1.19
• Roger Crozier, 1.05

This is a measure of game-to-game consistency. What it measures is how likely you are to get a similar performance each game - it doesn't really matter if you're always great, always average, or always awful, so long as we know what we're going to get out of you.

Greatest percentage of above-average performances, 1970-71:

• Jacques Plante, 67%
• Glenn Hall, 59%
• Doug Favell, 53%
• Gerry Desjardins, 45%
• Tony Esposito, 45%
• Ed Giacomin, 45%

A typical goalie will be average about 38% of the time, below average 31% of the time, and above average 31% of the time

Lowest percentage of below-average performances, 1970-71:

• Jacques Plante, 13%
• Gump Worsley, 15%
• Joe Daley, 16%
• Ed Giacomin, 17%
• Gerry Desjardins, 20%
• Gilles Villemure, 20%

 

[Doctor No]

Last but not least, who got the most goal support in 1970-71?

I calculate GFA (Goals For Average) identically to GAA in that empty-net goals are removed.

Highest GFA, 1970-71:

• Gerry Cheevers, 5.10
• Ed Johnston, 5.03
• Jacques Plante, 3.68
• Phil Myre, 3.66
• Rogie Vachon, 3.55

No surprises at the top of this list.

Lowest GFA, 1970-71:

• Gump Worsley, 2.00
• Roger Crozier, 2.52
• Bernie Parent (PHI), 2.53
• Dunc Wilson, 2.58
• Gary Smith, 2.60

Wow, Worsley's total is correct - I just checked it.

In Gump Worsley's 22 full games with the North Stars, he received (non-empty net goals):

• Zero goals of support (x3)
• One goal of support (x6)
• Two goals of support (x8)
• Three goals of support (x1)
• Four goals of support (x2)
• Five goals of support (x1)
• Six goals of support (x1)

He also appeared in two partial games where the North Stars scored two goals (full game) both times.

 

[Doctor No]

All of these are now uploaded on each goaltender's biography page, but I think I prefer the team comparisons:

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/boston.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/buffalo.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/california.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/chicago.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/detroit.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/losangeles.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/minnesotanorthstars.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/montreal.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/nyrangers.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/philadelphia.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/pittsburgh.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/stlouis.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/toronto.html
http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/vancouver.html

I also would love help with my discrepancies/questions (above) if you have time, inclination, and/or interesting newspaper access.

 

[Sanf]

70/71 11/7/1970 TOR VAN Jacques Plante Bruce Gamble

November 8, 1970
Independent Press-Telegram

Toronto's starting goalie Jacques Plante injured a knee at 8:26 of the second period, and was replaced by Bruce Gamble.

It was "diagnosed as a stretched ligament" and he was expected to miss a week.

7071 2/28/1971 MIN BUF Gump Worsley Gilles Gilbert

March 1, 1971
The Daily Journal

Veteran goalie Gump Worley sustained a pulled right groin

7071 3/3/1971 BUF LOS Roger Crozier Joe Daley

March 4, 1971
Independent

Veteran goalie Roger Crozier had a shutout working at that point early in the second period but pulled a groin muscle doing the splits and was relieved by Joe Daley

 

[Sanf]

I noticed that there is this in Chris Worthys transaction.


Claimed (from Golden Seals) by Denver Spurs (WHL) in Reverse Draft, June 1972.

Here is what I have seen from 1971 reverse draft.

St. Louis Post-Dispatch

The reverse draft came next and the Blues got goalie Chris Worthy from the California Seals

I believe it was Kansas City Blues

Just few weeks ago while searching backup I noticed that Worthy was in St. Louis Blues camp (1971) and played even in pre-season game. He was one of the candidates for Blues backup goalie. edit. Oops it was actually 1972 when he was in Blues camp...

 

[Sanf]

7071 3/20/1971 BUF MON Dave Dryden Joe Daley

The "famous" Dryden game.

From Niagara Falls Gazete

Imlach started Dave Dryden in the opening period, but replaced him with Joe Daley at 1:31

Doesn´t tell anything else.

I haven´t checked it yet from your page, but found a bit which called Dave Dryden the "road trip goalie"...

 

[Doctor No]

Sanf, you are awesome - thank you!

Regarding Plante, he missed additional time later in November with sore leg tendons (hello, Murray McLachlan).

That's interesting about Worthy - the Reverse Draft is always something that I've thought could use a historical treatment (including a full listing of transactions that resulted).

Regarding Dryden - I think there's something to that, at least early in his Buffalo career. Percentage of Dryden's minutes played at home:

SEASON|PCT
1970-71|39%
1971-72|33%
1972-73|47%
1973-74|55%
1979-80|31%

I bet the reference you found would be in the fall of 1971, since Dryden played six consecutive games on the road over the span of October 12 to December 15:

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/nhl/logs/BUF1971.html

 

[Doctor No]

One thing I'll add - I have no idea why the Google newspaper archive search function has sucked for the past few years - it used to be great.

Now, whenever I search for something with a custom date range (suppose that, for instance, I want all instances of Canucks Blues reports on 10/13/1970), I get nothing - even when I can find relevant articles independently.

The Montreal Gazette is usually useful, as are both Pittsburgh dailies. Ottawa Citizen is good in some years, not so good in others. New York Times and Chicago Tribune, I can get elsewhere. And I can't recommend newspapers.com's higher access level enough - just getting the Detroit and St. Louis dailies is worth it.

EDIT: I also need to get significantly better in my French. Somehow, my abilities in German and in Japanese aren't as helpful in hockey research.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Google

One thing I'll add - I have no idea why the Google newspaper archive search function has sucked for the past few years - it used to be great.

Now, whenever I search for something with a custom date range (suppose that, for instance, I want all instances of Canucks Blues reports on 10/13/1970), I get nothing - even when I can find relevant articles independently.

The Montreal Gazette is usually useful, as are both Pittsburgh dailies. Ottawa Citizen is good in some years, not so good in others. New York Times and Chicago Tribune, I can get elsewhere. And I can't recommend newspapers.com's higher access level enough - just getting the Detroit and St. Louis dailies is worth it.

Google no longer maintains or updates their newspaper archives. Hasn't for a few years. Hence the difficulties you are experiencing.

Caution about the summaries in The Montreal Gazette. Early edition and Final edition factor is at play. Corrections after the game to summaries will not appear in the Early edition, sometimes in the Final edition, at times the next day. Edition usually stated RHS top of the front page, often under the te of The Gazette.

 

[Doctor No]

Thanks! Good points, both.

For the Google archives, I suppose that I'm an optimist, but I'd expect that what you describe would mean more like "no new content being added", and less like "a company that was founded as a search engine's search capabilities have gotten actively worse on these data". I mean, the search engine should still work, right? (That's rhetorical.)

On the Gazette, it's usually the text information where I'm getting data, and I suppose there could be cases where the record gets corrected later on (just as there's the case where there's an error that's never corrected) - that's typically why I prefer to get multiple sources (which can lead to questions like the 10/12/1970 Canucks question on my list).

 

[Canadiens1958]

Time

Thanks! Good points, both.

For the Google archives, I suppose that I'm an optimist, but I'd expect that what you describe would mean more like "no new content being added", and less like "a company that was founded as a search engine's search capabilities have gotten actively worse on these data". I mean, the search engine should still work, right? (That's rhetorical.)

On the Gazette, it's usually the text information where I'm getting data, and I suppose there could be cases where the record gets corrected later on (just as there's the case where there's an error that's never corrected) - that's typically why I prefer to get multiple sources (which can lead to questions like the 10/12/1970 Canucks question on my list).

My understanding is that the Google search engine and the newspaper archives search engine are not one and the same. First is at the forefront, priority maintained and updated.The other is allowed to just survive on its own, low priority. So the results reflect this.

Montreal newspaper scene was saturated post WWII thru the seventies.Upwards of 12 daily papers, variable hours for the early to final edition. Early edition would not have the midwest or west coast games. Final edition could have all the games with scoring changes if applicable.

Google usually has the final edition. Microfilm, depending on the archive, may have one of the upwards of 6 issues, might have the out of town version(provincial version), might have a few of the issues for the day or all of the daily versions. Summaries are rather cut and dry but game narratives change, especially injuries or details that surface in the post game interviews, news releases etc.

 

[Doctor No]

True (and I agree - those split when Google diverged), but I wish they'd left the search engine as it was when it was split. This one's decidedly worse, almost like they tried to disable it.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Public Relations

True (and I agree - those split when Google diverged), but I wish they'd left the search engine as it was when it was split. This one's decidedly worse, almost like they tried to disable it.

Initially, the plan was to shut down the newspaper archives once it became clear that the ad revenues would never cover or excede expenses. Ensuing outcry led Google to keep the archives but unsupported.

 

[Doctor No]

Although I'm still actively looking for some issues on my list (and would still love some assistance):

http://hockeygoalies.org/stats/Discrepancies.pdf

I've also started digging through 1969-70 (for fun, to keep this moving, and more practically it makes sense to have multiple seasons done before trekking to random libraries in person). In the case of Al Smith (already one of my favorite goalies), I've been able to add yet another fun story to his DID YOU KNOW? section:

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/smitha.html

One place I try to keep current there is details of any altercations that a goaltender's been involved with, and the January 14, 1970 game between Pittsburgh and Chicago was a doozy.

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1970/01/15/page/129

Short version: Smith gets pulled early and is on the Pittsburgh bench. Late in the game, Keith Magnuson is being held by an official nearby, and Smith starts wailing on Magnuson. Stan Mikita then comes off the Chicago bench to attack Smith, and Bryan Watson goes after Mikita.

 

[Doctor No]

Fun back-to-back juxtaposition I just noticed while poring through game summaries.

The Bruins (Gerry Cheevers) and Canadiens (Tony Esposito) skated to a 0-0 draw on the night of December 21, 1968:

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H19680178

Apparently, both teams had a lot of pent up scoring frustrations built up in this one. The next day, the teams played again (this time in Boston) with the same goaltenders:

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H19680183

Final score, 7-5 Boston (with an empty netter).

I don't expect you to do anything with this information, but now it's stuck in my head so I wanted to stick it in your heads, too.

 

[Doctor No]

Okay, here's an odd request (and one that should be easier to resolve than I'm making it out to be).

Who was the Boston Bruins' goaltender on October 16, 1968, in the club's 2-1 win in Oakland?

HSP has Cheevers playing, while Sebastien Tremblay has Johnston playing (in fact, Tremblay doesn't have Cheevers playing at all until October 19, suggesting a malady of some sort).

I can't find a publicly available box source for the game to confirm one side or the other. There's a good Oakland source on newspapers.com, but I'd prefer to pay for the service all at once (since you pay per time, not per page accessed). And I've never found a good Boston source online (at a reasonable price).

And of course, it's a lousy west coast game.

Anyone have anything good?

EDIT: Similar question for the November 6, 1968 game:
http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/poboxscore.cgi?H19680061

HSP has Johnston playing, Tremblay has Cheevers playing. HSP boxscore has a minor penalty for Cheevers (even with them having Johnston playing).

If Tremblay is correct in both cases, then my W/L/T totals will match the official NHL record for both goaltenders.