GM's making mistakes early in the FA frenzy!

[Coffey77]

Sure some guys are getting overpaid but it's by teams that under the old CBA wouldn't do that. Isn't what the new CBA was for? Making it a level playing field? Now any team can freely overspend for a player.

Not surprised some teams are overpaying a bit because they have the cap room to do it. If they have the room, why not? The NHL is in new territory so some teams think taking an initiative now is to their advantage.

 

[colosilverado]

Um.... eye,

Did it ever occur to you that some of these teams have to shake off the stigma that they are

A) "Expansion Franchises"
B) "Non-Contenders"
C) "Building for the future"

Atlanta had to overpay, Columbus had to overpay. It's painfully obvious that they would. These are nontraditional markets, and the times are changing with the power balance in the NHL. A couple of you touched on the fact that this stigma must be eliminated and a player should only base his bias on whether or not the team is serious about being in the playoffs, or just taking a year off for the future.

Whatever means you use to justify it, it is still happening. A few teams' owners whined about not being able to be competitive because they were too cheap to sign players. Now they can because of the magic of Gary Bettman. These owners who were b$$%# at the contracts are now extending the same types of contracts. These owners act like the investment that they make in a team is supposed to be a guarantee that they will make money even if they invest it stupidly by not taking the chance to sign a few players because it might hurt their pocketbooks.No person making an investment should lose money...right?
These same owners that cried are now signing guys to stupid terms and saying that the players will help them draw in the fans. Well no duh. You know what, the same principle applied in the old CBA but they were just too stupid to see it and too cheap. How many of these guys have lost millions on other bad investments? Ohhh, let's cry to the Wall St. analysts or whomever and ask them to fixee, fixee. It is a good thing that there are no Gary Bettman's in these other investment areas.
The NHL should have worked on making the sport more attractive to new owners and encouraged the cheapskates to get out. The large market teams were doing fine and if the smaller market teams would pry the ole crowbar out, then the NHL would become more popular than it will be with this new CBA. We will lose players to Europe more and more as this CBA begins to cripple these "non-elite" players' pocketbooks or their perceived right to earn. The other leagues will pick up more and more talent from the NHL and their own talent will stay over there. The folks over there in Europe will catch on and see what is happening. You think a few Russian millionaires/billionaires won't be noticed by a few Swedish or German millionaires/billionaires? How many players in the NHL are European vs. North American? What are the projections for 5 years from now and what were they 10 years ago?

Who knows, maybe that parity will be good for hockey and we will have and IHL. Who will be whining then? Let's see the owners of the Panthers compete with some Russian tycoons to keep their guys. We all know that money talks. "Oh, Boris Moscovsky offered you $12 million to play over there Jarome?" "Um, sorry, we are limited to $39.7 million this year because of the CBA I voted in...sorry, we're a few million short."

We'll see where this goes, I guess. These same owners will be whining again soon enough once they realize that the cap that they whined for hinders them as well. I also wonder how many players will be jobless and have to head back to Europe and how long before those teams figure out ways to lock guys in like the NHL does. The Russian thing is pretty significant and will be more commonplace soon.

 

[futurcorerock]

Whatever means you use to justify it, it is still happening. A few teams' owners whined about not being able to be competitive because they were too cheap to sign players. Now they can because of the magic of Gary Bettman. These owners who were b$$%# at the contracts are now extending the same types of contracts. These owners act like the investment that they make in a team is supposed to be a guarantee that they will make money even if they invest it stupidly by not taking the chance to sign a few players because it might hurt their pocketbooks.No person making an investment should lose money...right?
These same owners that cried are now signing guys to stupid terms and saying that the players will help them draw in the fans. Well no duh. You know what, the same principle applied in the old CBA but they were just too stupid to see it and too cheap. How many of these guys have lost millions on other bad investments? Ohhh, let's cry to the Wall St. analysts or whomever and ask them to fixee, fixee. It is a good thing that there are no Gary Bettman's in these other investment areas.
The NHL should have worked on making the sport more attractive to new owners and encouraged the cheapskates to get out. The large market teams were doing fine and if the smaller market teams would pry the ole crowbar out, then the NHL would become more popular than it will be with this new CBA. We will lose players to Europe more and more as this CBA begins to cripple these "non-elite" players' pocketbooks or their perceived right to earn. The other leagues will pick up more and more talent from the NHL and their own talent will stay over there. The folks over there in Europe will catch on and see what is happening. You think a few Russian millionaires/billionaires won't be noticed by a few Swedish or German millionaires/billionaires? How many players in the NHL are European vs. North American? What are the projections for 5 years from now and what were they 10 years ago?

Who knows, maybe that parity will be good for hockey and we will have and IHL. Who will be whining then? Let's see the owners of the Panthers compete with some Russian tycoons to keep their guys. We all know that money talks. "Oh, Boris Moscovsky offered you $12 million to play over there Jarome?" "Um, sorry, we are limited to $39.7 million this year because of the CBA I voted in...sorry, we're a few million short."

We'll see where this goes, I guess. These same owners will be whining again soon enough once they realize that the cap that they whined for hinders them as well.

I didn't say it wasn't happening right now... durr.

There's still dispairity that exists in the ignorance that a team like Toronto is somehow better than a team like Nashville in terms of who they are and where they're from. That won't change though, and it rests solely on the player's decision.

"overpaying" still occurs, as you see with Florida sending a signal to all the other FA's they are courting that they mean business, and the business is playoff hockey.

 

[btn]

These new idiot GM's with money to spend finally are no different then the guys they blamed for the lockout mess.

Don Waddell was the model for GM's pre-lockout. He was very tight with money, which is why instead of signing players to exentions he generally traded them. And he rarely got free agents because he refused to overspend.

Bobby Holik is one of the premier defensive C's in the league, he also potted 25 goals last year. How many two way players can do that, especially at C? He also was one of the few on a lousy Rangers team to have a positive +/-.

The Thrashers overpaid, but not by much.

 

[boredmale]

the free agency period so far reminds me of the movie Revenge of the Nerds. All the "weak" teams are now getting revenge on higher spending clubs

 

[muskiehunter]

seems like everyone one is looking this year not down the road 2 or 3 yrs. Example cbj yeah they may have over paid for foote but next yr sandersons 2 mill comes of as well as richardson 2 so that clears 4 plus any other vet who is past his prime so don't just look at this yrs salaries look who won't be with the club next yr or the yr after. Columbus just got better def 10 fold if foote stays healthy.

 

[Habnot]

I think we are starting to see the more shrewd GM step to the front. I cannot believe the overpayment and the legnth of some of the deals we are seeing. Don't forget, the cap is more likely to go down next year and the teams doling out these 3-4 year deals will pay dearly at a later date.

I especially love the way the Thrashers, Blue Jackets, Flames, Bruins all of the sudden start spending with the big boys. Welcometo the Rangers way of doing business.

Interesting that Lacroix, Lamoriello, Gainey, Holland are rather quite. Maybe they understand the notion of value, flexibility, and medium term over short term.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I think the real x factor in all of this is going to be the implimentation and usage of Team Arbitration.

If Holik/Aucoin/"other over-payed player" sucks it up in year 1, how many GM's are taking them to Arbitration for the remainder?

You can't take a player to arbitration mid-contract.

 

[Macman]

I think we are starting to see the more shrewd GM step to the front. I cannot believe the overpayment and the legnth of some of the deals we are seeing. Don't forget, the cap is more likely to go down next year and the teams doling out these 3-4 year deals will pay dearly at a later date.

I especially love the way the Thrashers, Blue Jackets, Flames, Bruins all of the sudden start spending with the big boys. Welcometo the Rangers way of doing business.

Interesting that Lacroix, Lamoriello, Gainey, Holland are rather quite. Maybe they understand the notion of value, flexibility, and medium term over short term.

Excellent post. The best GMs in the game have been strangely quiet, so what does that say? Meanwhile knuckleheads like Clark are spending their way to oblivion. The new CBA was supposed to protect owners and GMs from themselves. It's not working.

 

[muskiehunter]

its not that the smaller market teams are spending money out the wazoo its now the big market teams have a cap and can't get everyone, most gm's have a number in mind like cbj probably around 34 or 35 mill so when revenue falls next yr and the cap is say 37 mill they are still good to go because as stated above sanderson will be gone 2mill richardson 2 mill just those two put them at 30 mill not counting anyone else.

 

[TheBudsForever]

The next downcycle will be brutal for some of the small market teams. They're shooting their bolt know and signing long term contracts but eventually those chickens will come home to roost. Will do better this year and next as a result of current UFA signings and youth coming up through the system, which means much lower draft choices over the coming years and less likelihood of quality young players. When the larder runs bare for these teams, they're really going to be in alot of trouble ... as in fielding a real crappy team in a disinterested small market.

A number of the small market teams still can't even afford the hard cap maximum of $39 million, and still lose money. That's the lingering hangover from Bettman's way too aggressive expansion to a 30 team league.

Also, the UFA age basically being lowered to the mid 20's also means that team rosters will be constantly changing. So much for stories like Yzerman. This will hurt the smaller market teams in soft markets as well. Just watch over the next few years as the good young talent you've taken time to develop walks on you.

Endorsement dollar potential will also ultimately figure in per larger markets. Who do you think Nike wants as their pitch person, the star playing on a small market team with limited media exposure or the big star playing for the Rangers ?

The League is also going to lose alot of European players, particularly those in the middle tier, or young players, all of whom can make nearly the same dollars while playing and living at home. Look at Ottawa's good young defenceman, Volchenov ... he's staying in Russia this year because he can make more money playing their. Less players means diluted talent base to chose from, which means the NHL doesn't put the best product it can on the ice.

When the cap gets ratcheted down to $35 million next year, it will get worse .... watch.

Welcome to a brave new world.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

The next downcycle will be brutal for some of the small market teams. They're shooting their bolt know and signing long term contracts but eventually those chickens will come home to roost. Will do better this year and next as a result of current UFA signings and youth coming up through the system, which means much lower draft choices over the coming years and less likelihood of quality young players. When the larder runs bare for these teams, they're really going to be in alot of trouble ... as in fielding a real crappy team in a disinterested small market.

A number of the small market teams still can't even afford the hard cap maximum of $39 million, and still lose money. That's the lingering hangover from Bettman's way too aggressive expansion to a 30 team league.

Also, the UFA age basically being lowered to the mid 20's also means that team rosters will be constantly changing. So much for stories like Yzerman. This will hurt the smaller market teams in soft markets as well. Just watch over the next few years as the good young talent you've taken time to develop walks on you.

Endorsement dollar potential will also ultimately figure in per larger markets. Who do you think Nike wants as their pitch person, the star playing on a small market team with limited media exposure or the big star playing for the Rangers ?

Just so I understand:
1) The small market teams would be better off continue to suck and earn those high draft choices? That's really the way to develop a fanbase - right? Or is your point that Foote's contract is going to keep CLM from resigning Nash or Zherdev well before they're UFA eligible?
2) Why is the good young talent going to leave if the small market teams can afford to pay them as much as TOR or PHI? TOR will definetely have cap room, because they haven't developed anyone internally that deserves a decent contrat(except Kaberle), so they will have cap room - but many other teams won't.
3) When has a hockey player made huge endorsement $'s in any market? I bet that Nash would get about the same for selling Chevy's in CLM as he would in NY, PHI or TOR. And since when has Nike been breaking down hockey player's doors offering huge paychecks? If I remember correctly, didn't their last two guys play in ATL and VCR?

 

[TheBudsForever]

It comes down to one basic reality ... Bettman driven expansion put NHL teams in small soft markets that ultimately can't support them. The new CBA will help these teams go on for a few more years because their stocked with good young talent now due to years of sucking ... give it 3 or 4 years and see where those teams ultimately are .... I mean c'mon, when you're in a market where interest in hockey runs behind football, baseball, NBA basketball, Nascar and college hoops, what does that tell you ?

The NHL would be on a much better footing for the long term future if they lost a few teams ....

 

[TheBudsForever]

One other thing ... there is no national t.v. coverage in the U.S. of hockey. Can you say that in respect of football, NBA basketball, baseball, March Madness, Nascar ???

 

[crump]

NHL Official Instructions On
How to sign a Free Agent in the league.

1. Connect to the server

2. Choose the Team button in the upper right hand corner

3. Lower the team drop down menu so that Free Agent is shown

4. Highlight the player that you wish to sign

5. Hit the Contract Button in the upper right.

6. NOTE: Your available cap room is shown in the bottom right, that is all you can spend.

7. Create an offer, number of years and contract amount per year.

8. Hit submit to offer the contract, you will be informed if the player signed or not

9. If you do not wish to sign the player (before you hit submit) choose cancel, problem solved

10. That's it, the player is yours (provided he signed)...

(Picture Bobby Clarke frustrated and hammering on the keyboard oblivious to what we are seeing on Sportsnet about his signings.)

 

[projexns]

Interesting that Lacroix, Lamoriello, Gainey, Holland are rather quite. Maybe they understand the notion of value, flexibility, and medium term over short term.

I thought that three of those four were quiet because they were trying to figure out how to get their rosters set while still remaining under the salary cap.

 

[BigE]

Don Waddell was the model for GM's pre-lockout. He was very tight with money, which is why instead of signing players to exentions he generally traded them. And he rarely got free agents because he refused to overspend.

Bobby Holik is one of the premier defensive C's in the league, he also potted 25 goals last year. How many two way players can do that, especially at C? He also was one of the few on a lousy Rangers team to have a positive +/-.

The Thrashers overpaid, but not by much.

This is exactly what I was saying earlier. At 3.47 a year over the life of the contract, he's not nearly as overpaid as most want to suggest.

The Rangers misused him and that led to a decline in his stock. He's going to help Atlanta make the playoffs this year. Just watch.

 

[X0ssbar]

One other thing ... there is no national t.v. coverage in the U.S. of hockey. Can you say that in respect of football, NBA basketball, baseball, March Madness, Nascar ???

There is the NBC deal. Not huge but basically the same thing the league had with ABC.

Also, Bettman was on 640 Toronto and said he is very optimistic there will be a national cable deal this year in the U.S. He said negotiations are at a very sensitive stage and that he couldn't discuss any details.

Lots of threads on this over in the business forum.

 

[feff]

Just so I understand:
1) The small market teams would be better off continue to suck and earn those high draft choices? That's really the way to develop a fanbase - right? Or is your point that Foote's contract is going to keep CLM from resigning Nash or Zherdev well before they're UFA eligible?
2) Why is the good young talent going to leave if the small market teams can afford to pay them as much as TOR or PHI? TOR will definetely have cap room, because they haven't developed anyone internally that deserves a decent contrat(except Kaberle), so they will have cap room - but many other teams won't.
3) When has a hockey player made huge endorsement $'s in any market? I bet that Nash would get about the same for selling Chevy's in CLM as he would in NY, PHI or TOR. And since when has Nike been breaking down hockey player's doors offering huge paychecks? If I remember correctly, didn't their last two guys play in ATL and VCR?

Except that the NHL player earning the largest number of endorsements is playing for Calgary. Now how does that affect your theory? The key to this is that some teams have structured their teams to actually add salary this year. Others are too close to the cap to do anything.

GM's are the new stars of this league, and gone are the days where bigger teams would simply add a million to a contract to push a player into their market. Get over it. And as for the Euros staying home - let them. The NHL will always be the most profitable place for them to ply their trade. And keep holding onto the fantasy that the buds will sign every single young player in the league forever. Never has happened historically, and it won't be possible to do so given the cap.

 

[RangerBoy]

This is exactly what I was saying earlier. At 3.47 a year over the life of the contract, he's not nearly as overpaid as most want to suggest.

The Rangers misused him and that led to a decline in his stock. He's going to help Atlanta make the playoffs this year. Just watch.

The problem with Bobby Holik is he never shuts up.The Devils grew tired of his constant crying and the Rangers had enough of his mouth.Why don't you think the Devils did not bring him back?

For all his assets, Bobby had become too much of a clubhouse lawyer and too little of a leader since leaving East Rutherford.

It would not surprise me if Lamoriello’s thinking ran something along the lines of not needing another post-game filibusterer in his room when he can employ a younger, more dedicated player at a much lower price. Vic Kozlov could be the new Holik.

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_n...ticle&sports=ice-hockey&team=other&league=nhl

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

It comes down to one basic reality ... Bettman driven expansion put NHL teams in small soft markets that ultimately can't support them. The new CBA will help these teams go on for a few more years because their stocked with good young talent now due to years of sucking ... give it 3 or 4 years and see where those teams ultimately are .... I mean c'mon, when you're in a market where interest in hockey runs behind football, baseball, NBA basketball, Nascar and college hoops, what does that tell you ?

The NHL would be on a much better footing for the long term future if they lost a few teams ....

Just wondering if you realize you are not consistent at all in your arguments. Bettman pushed expansion because for a real TV deal, you need a national US footprint. I'm still not convinced, as you seem to be, that the "new" franchises are doomed to failure.

What's going to change in MINN or CLM over the next 3-4 years?

Would the NHL be better in the long run if they lost 2-4 teams? Maybe, but since that's not likely to happen with the new CBA, it's vital that those franchises show their fans they can compete and put a good product on the ice. I think that's why some guys might of gotten a little extra in their contract offers.

 

[Don Draper]

The problem with Bobby Holik is he never shuts up.The Devils grew tired of his constant crying and the Rangers had enough of his mouth.Why don't you think the Devils did not bring him back?

The Devils didnt bring him back because they put the priority in re-signing Niedermayer. They have under 10 mill to work with, they are going to tie that type of money into a player, when Madden is already in that financial range.

 

[TheBudsForever]

Some of you really need to lose the anti Leaf bias. The days of the free spending big money teams is over and that's a good thing for the League. However, the fact remains IMHO that there are a number of small market teams in the U.S. who likely don't have the wherewithal to last over the longer term... and like it or not, there's still alot of DUMB owners.

Too many of you are too young to remember what happened to teams like the Cleveland Barons, Atlanta Flames, Kansas City Scouts, California Golden Seals, Hartford Whalers, etc many many years ago. Those teams couldn't cut it in small market areas of the U.S. long before player salary escalation. That was back in the days when the owners still ran the league like their private fiefdom and the head of the NHPLA was headed by an owner friendly rat like Alan Eagleson.

As far as any cable deal re national t.v. in the U.S. .. reality check boys ... in the last full season played Bettman had to give the rights away for peanuts just to get ESPN to carry some games on ESPN2 for crying out loud. He'll get less than peanuts now for a cable deal. ...

As far as having to have all kinds of small market teams in the U.S. to garner national t.v. coverage ... that's a joke. As long as you have teams in L.A., New York, Philly, Boston, Washington and Colorado, that's really all that matters re major markets in the U.S. The NHL had teams in all those markets many many years ago and there was no national television contract or much interest then either.

 

[octopi]

I think the smartest thing to do may be to wait it out. There are going to be some top(or close to)guys who may end up signing for less than they planned because teams have used up most of their cap space and its either take less or don't play.

 

[Snap Wilson]

I hope everyone knows by now that Holik's deal is $4.25 million PER YEAR, not just the first year. You can't frontload contracts under the new CBA. They have to be the same amount each year.

I think the teams that are standing pat and waiting for next year's free agent crop are the ones that are going to make out like bandits. Remember, it's been a year since anyone has played. A player's value can improve or decrease dramatically over that time. Signing players (especially older players) based on what they did in 2004 is risky. It's better to actually play a season and see where everyone is at and then make roster decisions accordingly.