Post-Game Talk (GBU): generational ugly

[wunderpanda]

G- nobody got injured
- humility is a great learning experience
- few people weren't bad or ugly, but that doesn't make them good

B- Beavis needs to play wing or 4th line or sit in the press box
- has this team played a good 1st period this year?
- nobody has outplayed Moulson or Gionta for 1st line minutes
- Bogo needs to play the body, we have enough stick wavers

U- looking busy isn't the same as playing hard. Larsson, Des and McGinn need to fix themselves.
.............

I can't blame Bylsma if the pieces he has just don't fit together. He has dead weight that needs to be dragged around, he has kids that need to be sheltered, he has slow skaters that can shoot but never get close enough. He has fast skaters with no hope of scoring and guys like Kane & Ennis that seem difficult to build lines around. He's done every combination except Beavis in the pressbox, that should be next.

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[Oakstream]

Awful PP, too many penalties and overall a bad game. Ennis was terrible. Well deserved loss.

 

[tsujimoto74]

All-around ugly game.
About the only good I can think of in that game is that the PK looked pretty solid most of the night.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Kane - Legwand - Ennis line 4 please

 

[JLewyB]

Probably Moulson's worst game as a Sabre. Ennis is right behind him.

 

[chadthestampede]

Ugly: Your attempt to get the nickname 'Beavis' to stick

 

[aceface33]

What is a Beavis

 

[Afino]

What is a Beavis

Eichel

 

[Gabrielor]

Of all the bad things to complain about last night, putting Eichel in the pressbox makes the least amount of sense. I'll agree that his battle and defensive play have been lacking, but he's still generating a couple high-octane scoring chances every game.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

Ugly: Your attempt to get the nickname 'Beavis' to stick

Yes, let's end that one now... pretty please.

 

[Punished ROR]

Beavis. Yichel. Beavis. Yichel. Beavis Yichel.

 

[hizzoner]

This year-yes I am repeating myself-is basically an extended training camp while a new coach figures out who can play and with whom. Who plays well with others? Where is the jam? The first year of Eichel as a pro has brought flashes of brilliance and shifts of intolerable laissez faire. Ennis looks great with spinning and dashing and he gives the puck away. Kane skates and battles and cannot see or will not pass to a player wide open for an unmolested try on goal. Moulson misses too many good chances-made by others-for him to be considered a good scorer for this team. Chad Johnson shows way too much net to shooters who are 30-40 feet way on the diagonal. ROR has me eating crow--he is better than I thought in all aspects of the game. I knew he was good but he has been great. Risto has had some bad shifts but is generally outstanding for his age and experience. Reinhart makes smart plays but often has no one to make the smart play to. His skating is ok, not great, but his vision and anticipation means he is seldom out of position to make the play. Bogo needs time to get used to the speed of the game again after being off so long. Ullmark has looked quite good. Gionta is a non factor. Ditto Foligno, Deslaurier, Girgensons when healthy. Weber is marginally ok as long as he is not expected to be Phil Housley. McCabe could be a good 4/5. Pysyk has done nothing yet to deserve top 4 billing. We have a crappy AHL team that is getting its ass handed to them by too many teams filled with other team's nhl prospects. We are better by far than last year but have some pieces that do not fit and indeed hamper others, That needs sorting out and hopefully Bylsma sees that and can get TM to swallow his pride even if it means giving up on players he has brought in. That said we have had stretches of damn good and exciting hockey this year--a much longed for and appreciated situation!

 

[FamilyGuy716]

We didn't play well but it was not generational ugly. Generation ugly was the last 2 years. We have higher expectations now but this team is still a work in progress. It's around an 80 point team and needs to play well if we're playing a very good team.

This game might have been different if Johnson doesn't let in that goal that my wife could have saved. Ennis taking that penalty also hurt not to mention his overall play.

When you play good teams, your weaknesses are exposed. We need to upgrade LHD and RW and need more experience with our young players. We also need more depth, as we can see when Girgs is out.

One last thing... sitting Eichel is ridiculous.

 

[jamers]

We didn't play well but it was not generational ugly. Generation ugly was the last 2 years. We have higher expectations now but this team is still a work in progress. It's around an 80 point team and needs to play well if we're playing a very good team.

This game might have been different if Johnson doesn't let in that goal that my wife could have saved. Ennis taking that penalty also hurt not to mention his overall play.

When you play good teams, your weaknesses are exposed. We need to upgrade LHD and RW and need more experience with our young players. We also need more depth, as we can see when Girgs is out.

One last thing... sitting Eichel is ridiculous.

Excellent, rational response.

 

[Siege Rhino]

G: being down 1-0 to the current best team in the league on a cheeser with 10 to go. Outside of the penalties and a few poor stretches they kept the stars from playing a fast game. PK did a great job for the most part.

B: Ennis, wow. His worst game as a pro.

U: Penalties and zone entries. They never were really able to establish control in the offensive zone.

Takeaways: not a good game but mostly expected.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

What does Larsson even do? I know he's a golden boy around here but he has provided NOTHING. He's been garbage all year and I'm not even talking about his production since if you do around here all you get in response is "LAWL READ MORE BOX SCORES YO" (while trying to defend him looking at war on ice).

He doesn't use his body. He doesn't make any line better. He's a black hole. Nothing special. He's a mediocre 3rd liner/decent 4th liner that's it. And people were furious he was the 13th forward at the start of TC....which actually is about right as he is probably one of the worst forwards this year.

 

[TalkingProuder]

Ugly: Your attempt to get the nickname 'Beavis' to stick

It is sad. Sabres fan suffer through almost a decade with no centers and we get our franchise center in the draft and cannot enjoy it. Some people just like being miserable.

 

[Zip15]

Sitting Eichel? Good Christ, get a grip.

He hasn't been great of late, but he has to work through it. As subpar as he was last night, he nearly had two goals (the Kane setup and when he went around Klingberg).

 

[joshjull]

Sitting Eichel? Good Christ, get a grip.

He hasn't been great of late, but he has to work through it. As subpar as he was last night, he nearly had two goals (the Kane setup and when he went around Klingberg).

I agree its absurd to suggest he sits out. But at what point does Bylsma make changes with how he is used? Its fairly obvious his overall play has tailed off and has been like that for some time. Yet his ice time and role have not changed at all. Others have been moved all over the lineup based on their play. Why not Eichel?

To be clear, Eichel's struggles are perfectly normal. But so is reducing a struggling young players role to help them adjust.

 

[Sabre the Win]

What does Larsson even do? I know he's a golden boy around here but he has provided NOTHING. He's been garbage all year and I'm not even talking about his production since if you do around here all you get in response is "LAWL READ MORE BOX SCORES YO" (while trying to defend him looking at war on ice).

He doesn't use his body. He doesn't make any line better. He's a black hole. Nothing special. He's a mediocre 3rd liner/decent 4th liner that's it. And people were furious he was the 13th forward at the start of TC....which actually is about right as he is probably one of the worst forwards this year.

I think hes been good behind the net and along the boards. I blame a lot of it on Foligno from last nights game. There was one or two times where Larsson was in front of the net battling 3 Star's players and a goalie while Foligno is nowhere and Ennis is doing twirls around defenders. His puck possession numbers are lower than they were last year which is troubling but this team DOES NOT have the depth we need yet.

I think the jig is up for Foligno. We have experimented to long with him and maybe a change of scenery is all he needs. Buffalo never has a "Power Forward" work in their favor.

 

[B U F F A L O]

I continue to see a lack of puck support within our system. Ennis trying to skate through everyone? Lack of puck support and options outside of dumping and chasing. Eichel floating around, not driving to areas of the ice to put him in position? Lack of puck support. ROR skating all over the zone doing it on his own? Lack of puck support. Larsson, Foligno, Girgensons working around the boards for seconds at a time with multiple defenders? No puck support.

There are stretches we do well at sustaining zone time, but it often just leads to solo efforts in the cycling game and very few times leads to quality scoring chances.

Everyone is trashing on Ennis, but theres really been no help for him when he has the puck. And it goes up and down the lineup with just about everyone. I can understand the frustration with Ennis due in part that he continues to turnover the puck where our other players are chip and chasing when they run into trouble.

Perfect example of what Im talking about was on the 5 on 3 when Eichel had it on the half wall. All 3 stars players collapsed to get on the puck and Eichel wound up winning it and throwing it across the slot. ROR is still in the opposite corner and the defenseman (Franson?) was high up on the point. Either of those two shouldve recognized the Stars players collapsing and moved to that open area.

How many odd man rushes have we created this year?

As far as last nights game goes, I dont think it was as terrible as people are making it out to be. We had some quality chances that Niemi stood tall on. We were in that game for two and a half periods against the best team in the league on the road.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I agree its absurd to suggest he sits out. But at what point does Bylsma make changes with how he is used? Its fairly obvious his overall play has tailed off and has been like that for some time. Yet his ice time and role have not changed at all. Others have been moved all over the lineup based on their play. Why not Eichel?

To be clear, Eichel's struggles are perfectly normal. But so is reducing a struggling young players role to help them adjust.

I think the issue is there's really no one else pushing him for those minutes. Reinhart hasn't played at center at all this year. Girgensons is hurt and hasn't been productive this year. Larsson has been equally unproductive. About the only move I can think of that might help Eichel is sticking him on ROR's wing, so he doesn't have the defensive responsibility of playing C and has an actual quality linemate, but you'd still have to give that 2C spot to somebody.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

There's nothing wrong with giving a rookie a night off to watch a game from a different perspective. Sit him next to an assistant coach for 1 game and let them talk about the game. As below his standards as he's been playing, he's still one of the best forwards out there on a nightly basis. That's both a compliment and a shot at guys like Larsson who aren't exactly cooking bacon right now.

 

[joshjull]

I think the issue is there's really no one else pushing him for those minutes. Reinhart hasn't played at center at all this year. Girgensons is hurt and hasn't been productive this year. Larsson has been equally unproductive. About the only move I can think of that might help Eichel is sticking him on ROR's wing, so he doesn't have the defensive responsibility of playing C and has an actual quality linemate, but you'd still have to give that 2C spot to somebody.

Player usage/roles generally and how Bylsma has been doing things specifically needs to be better understood. Since the 5th game of the year, Bylsma has been using ROR (#1) and Girgs (#3) as our defensive centers, ROR as the primary with a closer split on the road. Our 2C spot has been an offensive role. It has been all year and its been Eichel's all year. Girgs, Reinhart and Larsson all have the potential, to varying degrees, to be successful in an offensive center role. There would be nothing earth shattering about trying any of them in it. Eichel doesn't even have to leave the line. Then you would have to take one of the two that wasn't used in the 2C offensive role and use them in the 3C defensive one. Any of those three could handle that as well. How well or poorly they've produced in the various roles they've had so far is not predictive of how they would or wouldn't do in a primarily offensive center role.

Our primary offensive line centered by Eichel isn't producing much offense. Eichels game has regressed a bit and he could use some refocusing. Shaking things up with different options is the smart thing to do for any number of reasons. Ironically this coach does not shake up his centers at all.

I find it incredibly odd this attitude you have that there are no other options. There very clearly are. But our coach is locked in with his centers right now.

 

[joshjull]

Reinhart/ROR/Eichel
Moulson/Larsson/Ennis
Kane/Girgs/Gionta
McGinn/Folgino/Des/Legwand


The roles for the lines can stay the same. It would likely do Moulson and Ennis some good to be on an offensively focused line with a center they've had some success with in the past. It would also do Larsson some good to get his offensive game going. Obviously Reinhart/ROR have played well together and would be a settling influence on Eichel's game. Kane and Girgs have shown chemistry in their brief stints together.


This set up would also enable a far more equitable distribution of the ice time among the top 3 lines. Instead of riding a handful of forwards like ROR (21:44 a night), Kane (20+ a night), Ennis (19+ a night/was 20+ before his injury) Eichel ( 19min a night) and Gionta (just shy of 19min a night at 18:47) like Bylsma is doing now. ROR is practically getting top pairing dman minutes. Where is the balance we were supposed to have?