General Stars Talk

[Satan]

im day dreaming about nolan patrick

 

[Capslock17]

Whats the overall sentiment about whats going on?

Is whats happening Ruff's fault?

Much of his time in Buffalo, they played a similar style with little regard for defense, and while Miller was amazing, his stats rarely reflected his level. Take two goalies who are just "good" and I can see how it wouldn't work. IMO going after Bishop/Fleury is a band-aid for lack of defensive play and could very well not be the answer.

Watching Stars games last year, I remember how much the 3rd & 4th lines helped give the Stars momentum & put the other team on their heels for Benn & Seguin. I'd wager that missing Janmark, Hemsky, Eakin etc has hurt just as much if not more than missing Sharp, Hudler, etc

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

Personally, I'm not too mad at Lindy, certainly a little annoyance, but I'm still content with him as our coach.

Things beyond anyone's control notwithstanding, I think the failings so far this season lies more-so with Jim Nill.

 

[Mr Misty]

Whats the overall sentiment about whats going on?

Is whats happening Ruff's fault?

Much of his time in Buffalo, they played a similar style with little regard for defense, and while Miller was amazing, his stats rarely reflected his level. Take two goalies who are just "good" and I can see how it wouldn't work. IMO going after Bishop/Fleury is a band-aid for lack of defensive play and could very well not be the answer.

Watching Stars games last year, I remember how much the 3rd & 4th lines helped give the Stars momentum & put the other team on their heels for Benn & Seguin. I'd wager that missing Janmark, Hemsky, Eakin etc has hurt just as much if not more than missing Sharp, Hudler, etc

This is pretty astute, not a lot to disagree with. I think most people would agree that the GAA is bad because our defense is so young, which Bishop/MAF don't fix. And it definitely is weird to have essentially 3 lines instead of 4.

I will say we kept things tight in Ruff's 1st year and changed style in a big way for year 2. Ruff can adapt to the players IMO.

 

[Hull Fan]

It doesn't help Ruff with the injuries or the fact that two of his best players, Benn and Klingberg have been average and terrible respectively.

The goaltending isn't doing him many favors and neither is the defense. Hamhuis has been awful. Oduya not much better. Johns took a step back from the playoffs last year and Jordie is still Jordie.

I have no idea if Ruff will do it but the sooner Lindell, Honka, and probably Oleksiak are in the lineup every night the better this team will be over all. Along with Johns and Klingberg, with Jordie as the 7th. It's super young and will have bad nights but the more reps and opportunities the kids get now the better they'll be in a playoff race in the spring. Perhaps by then Spezza, Hudler, Sharp, Benn, and Eakin will round into form and the offense will take a badly needed step forward.

So to answer the question above, no I don't really blame Ruff for how things have gone so far. He doesn't control roster construction or the loss of all the forwards.

 

[Magic Mittens]

Was looking at Dallas Stars all time roster, anyways came across this statement

Lehtonen 362 games played and 22 assists
Turcos 509 games played and 22 assists

Now I don't know how many of you were watching when Turcos played for us, but he used to set up alot of breakaways and made some sick passes. But I'm surprised as Lehtonen has the same amount in less games lol

Just found that odd

 

[OttMorrow]

Don't look now, but the Stars are now tied for the most losses in the league at 15, and we have the 2nd worst Goals Differnetial in the NHL. Those pike of loser points that we have are either going to be our best friend if we turn things around and make the playoffs or our worst enemy if we miss the playoffs and pick in the teens First Round.

 

[Troy McClure]

Don't worry. Ruff can't be fired because injuries. Nill doesn't have the balls.

 

[OttMorrow]

We are now in sole possession of the most losses in the league at 16...and with playing less games than most teams.

 

[Mr Misty]

Don't worry. Ruff can't be fired because injuries. Nill doesn't have the balls.

Do you want him to be fired?

I'm all for accountability, but I'm not sure which part of the goalies not being fixed, the many forward injuries, and the departure of 2 key defensemen is Ruff's fault.

 

[Troy McClure]

Do you want him to be fired?

I'm all for accountability, but I'm not sure which part of the goalies not being fixed, the many forward injuries, and the departure of 2 key defensemen is Ruff's fault.

I'll answer it this way... Instead of listing Ruff's excuses, let's list the things he has done well this season. I can't think of anything.

I totally agree that Nill had a terrible off season and handed Ruff a flawed roster, but Ruff still has to get the best out of them. I don't think there is any way anyone can say Ruff is getting the most out of his roster.

 

[Hockey Dad]

My problem with Ruff is his system does not put the defense in proper position. Ruff seems like a great guy but I would not be upset to see him go.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I have always worried about the Stars getting everything aligned at the same time.

Not sure about anyone else, but we knew they had to get the "yutes" in the roster at some point. Most are acquitting themselves well, but this looks about like what I thought it would look with so much youth.

With the forward injuries, it does appear Nill is managing this year more to the future, despite being so close to the top last year. Maybe even before the injuries, since the off season is when he let 3 vet D go, played hardball with Nuke, etc. Maybe he felt the WC reg season championship was more of an anomaly than the real thing, and is still building?

None of the forwards are top tier material.

Honka and Klingberg seem to be top tier talent, glad to have them, but not perfect because they are too small. Nemeth, Big Rig, Johns, big, but not as talented. Lindell sort of Jack of all trades type. We end up with those six, and hopefully find a UFA stud to really anchor the D.

Goalie is also an organizational need, big time, with Desrosier sent to ECHL. Is that a sign he is struggling?

Nill used all the easy chips to get to this point. Now, not sure we have the depth to make the necessary trade without giving up something we don't want to give up.

Such is life building a team in the salary cap era. Only good news is, the other teams have to have similar problems, some with some real contract drains.

 

[Mr Misty]

I'll answer it this way... Instead of listing Ruff's excuses, let's list the things he has done well this season. I can't think of anything.

I totally agree that Nill had a terrible off season and handed Ruff a flawed roster, but Ruff still has to get the best out of them. I don't think there is any way anyone can say Ruff is getting the most out of his roster.

Two things: what exactly do you think the best from this roster looks like? I enjoyed the ride last year but we got a bunch of good breaks and we are substantially behind in talent terms year on year.

And second, firing Ruff raises questions about Nill in the wrong places while doing nothing lets us fly under the radar. "Injuries" is a big enough excuse to overshadow out all the others, but if you fire the coach the narrative becomes the actions of the GM instead. In Florida the story is mean Army guys from Wall Street fired a bunch of Good Hockey Guys, here the story would be GM lets defensemen leave, doesn't fix goalies everyone knows are bad, and fires coach despite injuries. Firing Ruff makes a rod for Nill's back, which Nill is canny enough to see even if he doesn't have any positive feelings for Ruff.

 

[Troy McClure]

Two things: what exactly do you think the best from this roster looks like? I enjoyed the ride last year but we got a bunch of good breaks and we are substantially behind in talent terms year on year.

And second, firing Ruff raises questions about Nill in the wrong places while doing nothing lets us fly under the radar. "Injuries" is a big enough excuse to overshadow out all the others, but if you fire the coach the narrative becomes the actions of the GM instead. In Florida the story is mean Army guys from Wall Street fired a bunch of Good Hockey Guys, here the story would be GM lets defensemen leave, doesn't fix goalies everyone knows are bad, and fires coach despite injuries. Firing Ruff makes a rod for Nill's back, which Nill is canny enough to see even if he doesn't have any positive feelings for Ruff.

To your first question, I think the roster flaws prevent anyone from having this team at the top of the standings. But I would expect the best of this roster to do something well or something consistently. Maybe a power play that is better than average. Maybe simply outskating opponents. Instead, what we have is a team doing nothing well and some things poorly. Even during the second half of last season when the team regressed back to the mean, they were still scoring at a higher level than they are now.

To your second question, I know the first few months of last season were too perfect and didn't reflect what this team was, but the ceiling was still there. For this team, the ceiling is much lower and the floor is down there with the very worst teams in the league.

Every game, the injury excuse falls farther into the background, yet the results are no better. Every game, the roster turnover excuse also becomes less meaningful because we're on month three of Ruff being unable to find lines or d-pairs he likes. At some point he has to make the most of what he has, and he's not doing it.

 

[Mr Misty]

To your first question, I think the roster flaws prevent anyone from having this team at the top of the standings. But I would expect the best of this roster to do something well or something consistently. Maybe a power play that is better than average. Maybe simply outskating opponents. Instead, what we have is a team doing nothing well and some things poorly. Even during the second half of last season when the team regressed back to the mean, they were still scoring at a higher level than they are now.

To your second question, I know the first few months of last season were too perfect and didn't reflect what this team was, but the ceiling was still there. For this team, the ceiling is much lower and the floor is down there with the very worst teams in the league.

Every game, the injury excuse falls farther into the background, yet the results are no better. Every game, the roster turnover excuse also becomes less meaningful because we're on month three of Ruff being unable to find lines or d-pairs he likes. At some point he has to make the most of what he has, and he's not doing it.

I want to start by saying I enjoy the chance to have a discussion like this, even though the circumstances are unfortunate.

I find talent and injuries incredibly compelling excuses. A big part of what worked last year was that the third and fourth lines were threats to score because they had so much talent relative to other teams. That advantage is totally canceled out by subtracting Nichuskin, Janmark, and Hemsky, which would be one of the top third lines in the NHL. And having that depth advantage means a good player who isn't producing in the top 6 can be swapped for one of those guys. I'm a big Scevior guy because he is perfectly suited to turn limited minutes with limited linemates into decent goalscoring, which is now in Florida. It's worth remembering that this was the lineup we thought we'd have
Benn-Seguin-Hudler
Janmark-Spezza-Sharp
Roussel-Faksa-Hemsky
Eaves-Eakin-Nichushkin
4 of those players are out, and 3 others have yet to look up to speed after they missed time with injuries. Nobody can overcome that much loss and it is unreasonable to expect the likes of Spezza, Sharp, and Eakin to immediately hit their best after they return. Yet we have no choice because there's no depth.

One of my shorthands when I prepare for fantasy hockey is money in-money out. If you lose a player who signs for 7m and replace him with a player who signs for 4m, that's a 3m loss. Teams with net losses should tend to do worse while teams with net gains should do better. On defense, we are almost 10m in net loss from last year so I expected major struggles, which is what we have. And we don't have established pairs because nobody has played with anyone else at this point for any length of time. I imagine the Oduya-Johns pair is the longest tenured one at this point, which says a lot I think. If Jordie, Oleksiak, and Nemeth had chemistry with anyone they would have been regulars last year. All the evidence is that they aren't very good, so I don't really see how that is Ruff's fault when they can't find good pairs.

This isn't a little talent difference, it is a huge one.

 

[Troy McClure]

But how much of that chemistry problem is Ruff's creation? The defense has been almost entirely healthy, yet he is changing pairs and scratches almost every single game.

I know the forward group is missing two of the top six, but I can't help but look at the play of the guys he has and wonder what the plan is. The healthy guys are turning it over a lot, struggling to win battles in tough areas, and not scoring all that much.

You want to be shocked? They are #7 over all in taking the most minor penalties. They are tied for the third most bench minors. When you're beat up and needing to win tough games, taking that many penalties is not a sign of good coaching. The fact they're doing it while also rolling out the league's worst PK makes it virtual suicide to play this way.

I don't think firing Ruff magically changes anything. I just don't think the injury excuses are enough to overcome his own failings in finding ways to make this team compete.

 

[Mr Misty]

But how much of that chemistry problem is Ruff's creation? The defense has been almost entirely healthy, yet he is changing pairs and scratches almost every single game.

I know the forward group is missing two of the top six, but I can't help but look at the play of the guys he has and wonder what the plan is. The healthy guys are turning it over a lot, struggling to win battles in tough areas, and not scoring all that much.

You want to be shocked? They are #7 over all in taking the most minor penalties. They are tied for the third most bench minors. When you're beat up and needing to win tough games, taking that many penalties is not a sign of good coaching. The fact they're doing it while also rolling out the league's worst PK makes it virtual suicide to play this way.

I don't think firing Ruff magically changes anything. I just don't think the injury excuses are enough to overcome his own failings in finding ways to make this team compete.

Who can make a pair that works with either Oleksiak or Nemeth? I don't want to judge Ruff on his ability to make impossible things happen.

 

[Troy McClure]

Ruff can't find a pair out of any of the 9 d-men who have played.

 

[Mr Misty]

Ruff can't find a pair out of any of the 9 d-men who have played.

25 games isn't that much time to get 3 new pairs going, and most coaches don't have to do this just like most coaches don't have to play 3 rookies at once. We have 2 healthy players that have been on an effective NHL pair in Dallas; whether it's lack of skill or NHL experience, it doesn't have anything to do with Ruff.

 

[Troy McClure]

Training camp, preseason, and 25 games. Of course that is enough time.

 

[Mr Misty]

Seguin to All Star game.

Related news: All-Star Roster is not made up of players having the best seasons and is instead packed with big names.

We are at take-con 1, proceed immediately to your fallout shelter to avoid these takes.

 

[WeegarUnderwood]

Hello everyone. I was just curious as to how Roussel has played so far this year? Has he been good/average/bad etc

Thanks

 

[Mr Misty]

He was really scoring when he was on the line with Eaves and Seguin. That's trailed off of course, but he's playing pretty well I think. And if he isn't, most people will tell you we have bigger issues to fix.

 

[serp]

I would think he's played/playing himself into an expansion protection slot. He's been very good this year and also last year . While he still leads the league in penalty minutes his taking of moronic penalties really went down as well.

He's playing with Eaves and Eakin right now IRC probably in the hopes this gets Eakin going.