GDT: GDT #14 New York Islanders @ Edmonton Oilers | November 13th | 8:30 PM | F/4-1 L

[Rehabguy]

So when the team does well it’s Snow’s roster, but when the team shits the bed it’s Lou’s roster. Got it.

Don’t want to go down that rabbit hole again but the truth of the matter is this is was exactly what happened and will continue to happen as predicted the longer Lou is at the helm.

Though he may have done it in his earlier years as GM he’s no longer effective at building through the draft or acquiring young players that keeps this line-up going on the right direction. It was his decision to replace the likes of Leddy, Eberle, Toews, Beauvillier, and Bailey with the likes of Horvat, Romanov, Pageau, Palmieri, and Engvall.

While the replacements he put on the team are not bad players it’s not difficult to see that he mortgaged this team’s long term future on those players. I don’t see the big upgrade those players brought to this team to have sacrificed so many first round picks and prospects like Raty, along with ridiculously long term contracts that puts our salary cap in jeopardy. A few years ago as much as we all love Martin our previous GM made the difficult decision to decide that he was no longer part of this teams future and who knows given more time the issues we have with the current lineup would have been resolved with a younger, faster club signed to responsible contracts because in recent history he was good at making those decisions. I trust the former GM to find the diamonds in the rough and I think we can all agree to that.

Right now the team is a grinding team starting to age at the core and with less real talent. It’s a bunch of grinders with less playmaking abilities and shooting accuracy. The team lacks finishers. Horvat is way overpaid for what he brings. There are a lot of real problems with this lineup and Lou should take the heat for it.

 

[Rehabguy]

On Barzal, I really believe he's got way more value to other teams. Most pro scouts are morons, they don't watch other teams (especially the Islanders) that closely, and at a glance, Barzal still looks like a superstar (to non-hardcore-fans). I would absolutely move him. I think to those who see his potential, the money/term aren't at all unattractive either.

Would I want a guy like Huberdeau in return? not a chance with that term - but I bet if it were two years ago a Huberdeau for Barzal would look much more interesting. I'm not sure who that guy is, frankly a lot of "maybe superstars" have changed hands a lot, mixed results. There's Laine, Gaudreau, M.Tkachuk, Eichel and some top 5 busts like Puljujarvi.

Even Horvat, how he was acquired and locked up (much like Huberdeau coincidentally) is a move that maybe looked understandable at the time, but he's not enough of an offensive player for that salary/term, not as a primary piece.

On the draft, of course a top10 is easier/better, top three is optimal, unrealistic though.
BUT so many 2nd/3rd rounders become superstars, but not on Long Island (Sorokin notwithstanding) - and missing on guys like Wahlstrom donsn't help.

Bottom line, you need a really strong GM who's a visionary, aggressive and quick decisions on assessing his OWN players/prospects and other teams. Whether it's Raty/Beauvillier (who nobody misses, today) or identifying a Jason Robertson type on another team (someone with potential that other teams may mis-read) - I'm not sure I trust this regime at all though.

Why would you trade away Barzal? Other than Dobson and Sorokin he’s the only player on the offensive side of things who actually has high end talent. Put him on Edmonton, Buffalo, Avs, Devils and all of a sudden those teams will completely dominate the league in goals for. Right now all he has to play with are a bunch of grinders who don’t know where to go to receive one of his passes. Only Dobson seems to know and sadly he’s a defenseman.

You trade away Barzal and this team will surely be a lottery team. But if that’s the point I guess go ahead with that decision. If you are looking to improve this teams prospects for the near future trading Barzal is one of the most foolish things to do.

 

[Throttle]

In case you haven’t noticed, the team can win games with Barzal in the lineup and doing nothing or out of the lineup entirely.

This fallacy that the team is doomed w/o Barzal is counter to what actually happens.

Good, put him on another team and who cares what he does there. He doesn’t work for NYI. He doesn’t want to amend his game based on the team he is on. You can’t turn over an entire roster in the hope ‘elite’ talent shows up or better, he even plays with elite talent.

All we know is that he played very well as a rookie in a slower, less transition based league, with lots of older/slower players, behind John Tavares, on a team that finished with the worst GA in the league.

From there, it’s all been hopes and dreams and the Isles need to help him. Yet, has he helped himself or his teammates? Nope.

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

Yankees disappointed me.

Islanders are disappointing me.

My Dad is still disappointed with me.

F it all.

 

[redbull]

Why would you trade away Barzal? Other than Dobson and Sorokin he’s the only player on the offensive side of things who actually has high end talent. Put him on Edmonton, Buffalo, Avs, Devils and all of a sudden those teams will completely dominate the league in goals for. Right now all he has to play with are a bunch of grinders who don’t know where to go to receive one of his passes. Only Dobson seems to know and sadly he’s a defenseman.

You trade away Barzal and this team will surely be a lottery team. But if that’s the point I guess go ahead with that decision. If you are looking to improve this teams prospects for the near future trading Barzal is one of the most foolish things to do.

I guess I'm with Throttle on this - it doesn't matter how he does on another team. I mean, if Scarlett Johansen left her boyfriend/husband (whomever that is) and hooked up with redbull, I think she'd thrive (for minutes at a a time) - but that's a hypothetical, and frankly, shouldn't matter to how her BF treats her today. REMINDER: I should email her!

If I think of Barzal on a "better team" whatever that means, yeah, he can be a 30G-100PT player. Imagine him centering Pastrnak/Marchand for example.

SO, would we get the next three 1st round picks from the Bruins? Maybe they'll see the same thing. To some extent, you want the player to trade to do well for another organization as long as you get high value back.

I just don't see the upside on the team and Barzal specifically that you do. Sometimes you can spot it early (like with Ho-Sang who I also thought was terrible at hockey, even though he had magic hands and was lighting fast). Yet Jason Robertson does nothing well, he's slow, average shot, not physical even though he's got good size....but he's such a smart player. He makes smart passes, takes a lot of shots into traffic, from bad angles, you don't notice him but he's so productive. Mark Stone may be the worst skater in the NHL. He's 1981 slow and would lose a race with Brent/Duane Sutter even today - but incredibly smart player, competitor, danger-area-passes/shots/production.

Barzal in a tryout, with no names/numbers on the jersey, would make them look ridiculous based on pure skill.

Anyway, I really need to get my email to Scarjo going - but it's a very uncomfortable situation with Barzal and this team right now.

Do they have enough to build around Sorokin/Dobson by adding a few younger elite-level forwards? who knows. Not my job. I just sit back and judge.

 

[Rehabguy]

In case you haven’t noticed, the team can win games with Barzal in the lineup and doing nothing or out of the lineup entirely.

This fallacy that the team is doomed w/o Barzal is counter to what actually happens.

Good, put him on another team and who cares what he does there. He doesn’t work for NYI. He doesn’t want to amend his game based on the team he is on. You can’t turn over an entire roster in the hope ‘elite’ talent shows up or better, he even plays with elite talent.

All we know is that he played very well as a rookie in a slower, less transition based league, with lots of older/slower players, behind John Tavares, on a team that finished with the worst GA in the league.

From there, it’s all been hopes and dreams and the Isles need to help him. Yet, has he helped himself or his teammates? Nope.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Sorry.

 

[seafoam]

I guess I'm with Throttle on this - it doesn't matter how he does on another team. I mean, if Scarlett Johansen left her boyfriend/husband (whomever that is) and hooked up with redbull, I think she'd thrive (for minutes at a a time) - but that's a hypothetical, and frankly, shouldn't matter to how her BF treats her today. REMINDER: I should email her!

If I think of Barzal on a "better team" whatever that means, yeah, he can be a 30G-100PT player. Imagine him centering Pastrnak/Marchand for example.

SO, would we get the next three 1st round picks from the Bruins? Maybe they'll see the same thing. To some extent, you want the player to trade to do well for another organization as long as you get high value back.

I just don't see the upside on the team and Barzal specifically that you do. Sometimes you can spot it early (like with Ho-Sang who I also thought was terrible at hockey, even though he had magic hands and was lighting fast). Yet Jason Robertson does nothing well, he's slow, average shot, not physical even though he's got good size....but he's such a smart player. He makes smart passes, takes a lot of shots into traffic, from bad angles, you don't notice him but he's so productive. Mark Stone may be the worst skater in the NHL. He's 1981 slow and would lose a race with Brent/Duane Sutter even today - but incredibly smart player, competitor, danger-area-passes/shots/production.

Barzal in a tryout, with no names/numbers on the jersey, would make them look ridiculous based on pure skill.

Anyway, I really need to get my email to Scarjo going - but it's a very uncomfortable situation with Barzal and this team right now.

Do they have enough to build around Sorokin/Dobson by adding a few younger elite-level forwards? who knows. Not my job. I just sit back and judge.

The ScarJo bit lives on!