Salary Cap: Gary Roberts and the Incredible Shrinking Kessel

[Iffyiffiffer]

Who trades for Kunitz when you can get Tlusty for 3 million less?

Did the Devils put Tlusty up for trade already?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Perron sucks. What is everyone's love affair with him? He's soft and didn't even score goals playing with the best player in the world.

Screw Perron. He was a dumb acquisition.

garbage

 

[Empoleon8771]

-edit- **** it, not worth the response.

Keep defending Kunitz. I don't know how poorly a player has to play in order for some of you guys to take off your black and gold glasses and see that he's a terrible hockey player who has only seemed productive in recent years due to being gifted top PP time and being glued to the hip of the two best C's in the world.

I too like using overly hyperbolic statements. I don't like him as a top-6 guy and if we had replacements readily available, I'd move him at the first opportunity. However, the idea that he's a terrible player that was only productive because of Crosby is so much revisionist history that it gives me a migraine. It's just laughably untrue. He's a "terrible player" if you compare him to most good 1st line wingers. Overall, there's absolutely no way he's a terrible player.

It's like when you insist that Dupuis was never a top-6 forward. Players who aren't top-6 forwards don't put up 59 points in a season where they played primarily with Jordan Staal and a shell of Steve Sullivan...

 

[Mike Lange Version 2]

You sign him to a bridge deal only if he's not interested in signing a long term deal. Long term he's going to cost less than 4.25m - so if you can get him signed to something like that, you do so and take the chance that his shoulder issue is really an issue.

You really think it would be that cheap? If we get him for the martinez contract (6 years, 24 mil), I would be all for it. I was thinking it would be ~5.5....

 

[DearDiary]

I think there's a lot for you guys to be excited about this season. The Pens biggest issue has been lack of forward depth and playmaking skill in the top 6. The defense isn't spectacular but it's moving in the right direction with a puck moving focus.
Pens don't need to play physical or focus on defensive play either.The goal should be the Pens having the puck on their stick and dictating play.

Also, I see Scuderi still gets a lot of hate on here but you need guys like him to win. He isn't worth his contract, but he's definitely a solid bottom pairing defensemen who should be lined up with someone like Cole or Pouliot. There would be quite a few teams interested in him at a lower caphit, saying he's not even an NHL player is ignorant when a cup contender like the BlackHawks has Rundblad on their defense.
Lovejoy is great at his caphit though, seems most of you are still blind to that because of who was traded for him.

 

[BobCole]

As a point of order, Kunitz was unarguably a "terrible" player for much of last season. In fairness, that was true of a lot of our roster towards season's end. The question is whether last season was the beginning of a precipitous slide or whether he can rekindle his prior success w/ Sid. Age works against him here.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

And what if Plotnikov doesn't adjust well over to the NHL? What if Dupuis gets another blood clot? Dupuis on the top line is already a massive stretch with a healthy Dupuis, it's makes it even worse because it's no guarantee he's healthy.



Unless trading Kunitz actually helps us in some way (and no, just adding cap space doesn't do that), then we shouldn't trade him just for the sake of trading him until Plotnikov and Dupuis prove they can play. He's still a servicable 3rd liner if he's used properly, he's no where near Scuderi's level. He'd have to play even worse than he did last year to become another Scuderi. It's a lot more likely he has a bounce back beginning of the season due to it being early in the season and playing with Kessel and Crosby (most likely). I'd much rather take my chances with keeping Kunitz than just dumping him right now. There are too many "what ifs" for me to just want to get rid of him.

Yeah if all that **** goes wrong, Kuni isn't going to save the day.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah if all that **** goes wrong, Kuni isn't going to save the day.

Who is saying that? Reading comprehension is nice.

If Kunitz is still here, we have a guy that we at least know is a top-9 forward. No one is saying Kunitz is a savior.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Did the Devils put Tlusty up for trade already?

Don't be obtuse, you know what I meant. Similar players to Tlusty had to settle for PTO's even.

 

[systemsgo]

Pouliot with Lovejoy sounds like a good third/sheltered pairing playing shared 2nd line minutes. I'm assuming the other would be a mix of Letang and Maatta, Cole and Dumo. (one can hope)

I think there's a lot for you guys to be excited about this season. The Pens biggest issue has been lack of forward depth and playmaking skill in the top 6. The defense isn't spectacular but it's moving in the right direction with a puck moving focus.
Pens don't need to play physical or focus on defensive play either.The goal should be the Pens having the puck on their stick and dictating play.

Also, I see Scuderi still gets a lot of hate on here but you need guys like him to win. He isn't worth his contract, but he's definitely a solid bottom pairing defensemen who should be lined up with someone like Cole or Pouliot. There would be quite a few teams interested in him at a lower caphit, saying he's not even an NHL player is ignorant when a cup contender like the BlackHawks has Rundblad on their defense.
Lovejoy is great at his caphit though, seems most of you are still blind to that because of who was traded for him.

Er, the 24 year old first round pick - really?

Who is saying that? Reading comprehension is nice.

If Kunitz is still here, we have a guy that we at least know is a top-9 forward. No one is saying Kunitz is a savior.

Kunitz might not be garbage years ago, but he sure was last season. The way he played last season, he belonged on the third line or worse. I'd call that Kunitz a bottom 6 player before I call him a top 9, which is just too optimistic.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Theres some things that i don't like and some things that need to happen for this roster to be succesful.

-don't like the fact the old guys are still taking up roster spots. i see Dupuis as a serviceable 3rd/4th liner cuz he always keeps himself in great shape but the sooner Scuds and Kunitz go, the better.

-theres not enough injection of youth up front

-i'd really love for Beau to take a big step this year. Not only staying healthy but becoming a relied upon pro. And eventually the same for Sundqvist and hopefully Sprong down the road. Same with Plotnikov. We need good young youth on the cheap.

-it's imperative that Sid and Geno become the best 200 foot players they can. them helping out cleaning up thier own end is whats gonna make this roster go from a pretender to a contender, in this next phase of their careers.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Who is saying that? Reading comprehension is nice.

If Kunitz is still here, we have a guy that we at least know is a top-9 forward. No one is saying Kunitz is a savior.

My point is that if this team goes to ****, Kuni isn't going to help enough to matter even at his best. On the other hand, hit cap hit is hurting the team. I the actual real world, not a made up one where everything goes wrong.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I too like using overly hyperbolic statements. I don't like him as a top-6 guy and if we had replacements readily available, I'd move him at the first opportunity. However, the idea that he's a terrible player that was only productive because of Crosby is so much revisionist history that it gives me a migraine. It's just laughably untrue. He's a "terrible player" if you compare him to most good 1st line wingers. Overall, there's absolutely no way he's a terrible player.

He's bad as a top six option. Why? He's lost--or losing--his wheels rapidly. His production has taken a precipitous drop over the past few years, culminating in what we saw last season. He's not physical, he doesn't bust his ass anymore. He can't/won't work to create space for Sid or Geno, and he won't forecheck/hit to wear down the opposition.

As a bottom six option, what does he bring to the table? Not a fast, energy guy. Not physical. His offense has dried up, despite being gifted time alongside Sid and Geno as well as given top PP time for years--regardless of how he'd been playing. What makes you think with a reduced workload and responsibility, and a dramatic drop-off in linemates, he'd improve on the ice or the scoresheet?

It's like when you insist that Dupuis was never a top-6 forward. Players who aren't top-6 forwards don't put up 59 points in a season where they played primarily with Jordan Staal and a shell of Steve Sullivan...

Cheechoo also scored 56 goals once. Things happen. Dupuis isn't a top six forward, he was just used there because this team was disastrous at surrounding Sid and Geno with talent; either through drafting, free agency or trades. Dupuis is, was, and always will be a bottom six guy on a team with Cup aspirations. A damn good one, maybe one of the best in the league, but a bottom six guy nonetheless. It's not a knock to him personally, or his character. He's just not a legitimate scoring line winger. Sorry.

But whatever. Rah-rah, go Pens. Woooo, etc.

 

[DoktorZaius]

I think there's a lot for you guys to be excited about this season. The Pens biggest issue has been lack of forward depth and playmaking skill in the top 6. The defense isn't spectacular but it's moving in the right direction with a puck moving focus.
Pens don't need to play physical or focus on defensive play either.The goal should be the Pens having the puck on their stick and dictating play.

Not sure we'll be able to endure the loss of Adams, though.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Rutherford was on the fan for at least an hour. EJ was with him.

Was in and out of the car so I didn't hear much, but he did give the impression that the idea with Pouliot is to pair him with Lovejoy and see if you get a Fowler/Lovejoy sort of thing. I'm sure he said more stuff, but I don't know what it was.

anyone got a link?

 

[Rocket of Russia]

I think there's a lot for you guys to be excited about this season. The Pens biggest issue has been lack of forward depth and playmaking skill in the top 6. The defense isn't spectacular but it's moving in the right direction with a puck moving focus.
Pens don't need to play physical or focus on defensive play either.The goal should be the Pens having the puck on their stick and dictating play.

Interesting word choice for someone who has been posing as a Pens fan.

Also, I see Scuderi still gets a lot of hate on here but you need guys like him to win. He isn't worth his contract, but he's definitely a solid bottom pairing defensemen who should be lined up with someone like Cole or Pouliot. There would be quite a few teams interested in him at a lower caphit, saying he's not even an NHL player is ignorant when a cup contender like the BlackHawks has Rundblad on their defense.
Lovejoy is great at his caphit though, seems most of you are still blind to that because of who was traded for him.

Ah, there it is.

First it's a Craig Adams avatar and countless posts proclaiming Adams' worth and leadership. Now it's Scuderi... Kind of an obvious shtick, right? Can I ask ya - is it a satisfying venture?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

First it's a Craig Adams avatar and countless posts proclaiming Adams' worth and leadership. Now it's Scuderi... Kind of an obvious shtick, right? Can I ask ya - is it a satisfying venture?

AND Lovejoy, evidently.

Seems like three rather... interesting... choices, yeah?

billy, et al. -- that Fan interview with Rutherford and EJ sounds like it might be worth listening to. I haven't gotten around to it, myself but my friend passed along some tidbits from it that I found pretty damned interesting. I want to listen to the whole thing at some point to fill in the blanks... but Pomp is insufferable so... eh.

Anyway... I'll just copy/paste what he originally sent me:

1. Jordan Staal trade was talked about between JR & Shero the entire year before it happened. The actual pieces were put together the night before the draft, in Shero's office, in about 20 minutes.
2. Asked about trades they regretted. JR, again, mentioned Lovejoy for Despres without naming their names, just "younger D for older D".
3. JR thinks this year's D is better at puck moving than last year's. Really? Without Martin & Ehrhoff, it's better? He said it was.
4. If Gonchar can keep the pace of play, they will make room for him.
5. "Pouliot has work to do to learn the league".
6. Pomp asked EJ if players ever used "hypnotists when he was playing" (lol)

 

[mpp9]

Who trades for Kunitz when you can get Tlusty for 3 million less?

I never claimed Tlusty's an equal or better player. From mock lineups and quotes I'm seeing from the Pens, Kunitz very likely starts the season on the third line. If that's management's mindset, then Tlusty as a top 9 player at 3 mil less is a no brainer.

Many teams with cap space don't have the depth at forward at the NHL level that we do. We could retain on Kunitz and still get the cap space needed to make any move we want at the deadline.

It's about cap management for me. And if you can't sell a 2 time Cup winner for a 2nd or 3rd round pick a year and change removed from a 35 goal season and Olympic gold medal to a league with plenty of questionable GMs who eat intangibles up, then I'd question your ability as a management group.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

AND Lovejoy, evidently.

Seems like three rather... interesting... choices, yeah?

billy, et al. -- that Fan interview with Rutherford and EJ sounds like it might be worth listening to. I haven't gotten around to it, myself but my friend passed along some tidbits from it that I found pretty damned interesting. I want to listen to the whole thing at some point to fill in the blanks... but Pomp is insufferable so... eh.

Anyway... I'll just copy/paste what he originally sent me:

1. Jordan Staal trade was talked about between JR & Shero the entire year before it happened. The actual pieces were put together the night before the draft, in Shero's office, in about 20 minutes.
2. Asked about trades they regretted. JR, again, mentioned Lovejoy for Despres without naming their names, just "younger D for older D".
3. JR thinks this year's D is better at puck moving than last year's. Really? Without Martin & Ehrhoff, it's better? He said it was.
4. If Gonchar can keep the pace of play, they will make room for him.
5. "Pouliot has work to do to learn the league".
6. Pomp asked EJ if players ever used "hypnotists when he was playing" (lol)

If you subtract Scuds from this year's equation, then it's better, yes.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

AND Lovejoy, evidently.

Seems like three rather... interesting... choices, yeah?

billy, et al. -- that Fan interview with Rutherford and EJ sounds like it might be worth listening to. I haven't gotten around to it, myself but my friend passed along some tidbits from it that I found pretty damned interesting. I want to listen to the whole thing at some point to fill in the blanks... but Pomp is insufferable so... eh.

Anyway... I'll just copy/paste what he originally sent me:

1. Jordan Staal trade was talked about between JR & Shero the entire year before it happened. The actual pieces were put together the night before the draft, in Shero's office, in about 20 minutes.
2. Asked about trades they regretted. JR, again, mentioned Lovejoy for Despres without naming their names, just "younger D for older D".
3. JR thinks this year's D is better at puck moving than last year's. Really? Without Martin & Ehrhoff, it's better? He said it was.
4. If Gonchar can keep the pace of play, they will make room for him.
5. "Pouliot has work to do to learn the league".
6. Pomp asked EJ if players ever used "hypnotists when he was playing" (lol)

Ugh. with honourable mention to #3.


His hatred for the Despres trade continues to be funny, but **** with Lovejoy still on the team, JR.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If you subtract Scuds from this year's equation, then it's better, yes.

That was actually my friend's commentary. I don't think the defense will be as good as last year but I'm not particularly concerned about their ability to move the puck so long as health isn't a thing. Which... hilarious.

Though I'm also not convinced Scuds is going anywhere. And if he's on the roster... MJ will play him in some capacity most nights. Hope to be wrong.

And those were kind of my thoughts, too, vabm8. I think Pouliot better have a really outstanding camp and preseason and not give them any reasons. I'm not at all convinced he's the shoo-in everyone seems to think he is. He still has waiver options...

 

[mpp9]

That was actually my friend's commentary. I don't think the defense will be as good as last year but I'm not particularly concerned about their ability to move the puck so long as health isn't a thing. Which... hilarious.

Though I'm also not convinced Scuds is going anywhere. And if he's on the roster... MJ will play him in some capacity most nights. Hope to be wrong.

And those were kind of my thoughts, too, vabm8. I think Pouliot better have a really outstanding camp and preseason and not give them any reasons. I'm not at all convinced he's the shoo-in everyone seems to think he is. He still has waiver options...

Pouliot has to be on the roster for this defense to be noticeably better in transition than last year's.

I will say we may finally have a few D who can get shots through to the net and shoot with some velocity. That wasn't Martin's strength. And Ehrhoff didn't show much of that last season either.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You're probably right.

A healthy Letang and Maatta goes a long way, though. Something they didn't have much of, last year. Cole and Dumoulin aren't half bad at getting the puck up ice, either. Some of their recent acquisitions on the back end are pretty good at that aspect of the game, too.

Admittedly I'm not quite as bullish on Pouliot as everyone else is. Good young player... not quite what I was hoping for, to this point. But again... I am pulling for him. This team would benefit greatly from him suddenly putting it all together. Camp and preseason will tell a lot, I think.

 

[mpp9]

You're probably right.

A healthy Letang and Maatta goes a long way, though. Something they didn't have much of, last year. Cole and Dumoulin aren't half bad at getting the puck up ice, either. Some of their recent acquisitions on the back end are pretty good at that aspect of the game, too.

Admittedly I'm not quite as bullish on Pouliot as everyone else is. Good young player... not quite what I was hoping for, to this point. But again... I am pulling for him. This team would benefit greatly from him suddenly putting it all together. Camp and preseason will tell a lot, I think.

More than ever, being able to break the puck out cleanly and getting shots through from the point are huge traits in a D-man. I think we have the guys who can do that. It'll be a matter of bringing the young guys along and having the forwards supporting and not playing jailbreak like under DB.

 

[PensPlz]

Kunitz is a not a good top 6 forward anymore right now but would be an even worse bottom 6 forward. No grit and no legs makes you not a candidate for the bottom 6 in this league.