Post-Game Talk: Game 9: Leafs vs Blackhawks | Kostka's Revenge

[Quarter]

I guess no one told either of them its easier to move the puck around while on the PP.

 

[happyaccident]

That's what happens when you allow the puck moving D men on your team be exactly that puck moving D men who skate and make plays with puck often leading the rush through the neutral zone... Since Carlyle has become coach he has taken this element away from the puck movers so much so Liles is in the AHL now because of it... both Gardiner and Rielly are playing with a ball & chain on them named Carlyle. The only times we see our D carry the play is when we're losing in the 3rd and are trying to tie the game up in the attempt to push and control the game. It's no coincidence that the 3rd period was the best of the 3. Our D had the ball & chain lifted from them.



Finally somebody who talks X's and O's... The Leafs have been playing like this since all of last season and it's the sole reason why they're getting out shot every game. The + is they may be getting out shot but not necessarily out chanced. It works as long as we can score goals as a group the minus is it's easy to scout against where breakouts become predictable to the opposition and that's why the Leafs have a poor possession time, commit more neutral zone turnovers then one would like and the oppositions D have no fear to hold the blue line. Another words because the Leafs have been scouted they've become predictable and it's why they're rope & doping in the picture of there play.

There's a fix to improve the system of play Carlyle has in place and it's #FreeJakeGardiner # FreeMorganRielly. Puck movers who could skate with the puck and make plays with it rather it be leading the rush or making a great pass will eliminate the predictability out of the zone... Carlyle at the moment has a ball & chain on both of them. It's not only hurting the ability of this team to control & push the play on the opposition but it's keeping both players from being at there best. If either guy was on Chicago last night we'll be talking about how they were just killing us...

It doesn't take a genius to see that Carlyle is over coaching things at the moment. In the playoffs Gardiner was free and he was the best player on the ice... Carlyle is the one who needs to make adjustments as far as I'm concern.

Gardiner was off to a good, confident start until he got Carlyled. So he needs to learn to play better along the boards but when you reign him in and and make him think too much, he turns to mush. I'd much rather have a confident, full-out Gardiner with the odd mistake than a scared, pensive mushy one. Aren't good coaches supposed to get more out their players and not less?
People putting a positive spin on Sats game is ludicrous, it was downright embarrassing, it's starting to look like a full-scale mutiny is developing, players are giving up, I knew Carlyle had a limited shelf-life, didn't know it would be this short.

 

[bunjay]

Let's be clear.

The Leafs have one of the best records in hockey over this year and last year.

This is a positive. Nobody needs to spin it to be a positive.

There are many people trying to "spin" this positive into a negative, however.

Lets be clear, tacking the first 9 games of a season onto 48 games and calling it "one of the best records in hockey" is already spin

You can cherry-pick a 57 game sample from most teams and find "one of the best records in hockey."

The fact is that this team never looked better than they did in the playoffs beating Boston against all expectations. Right up until the third period of game 7, where they tried to turtle and played some of the worst team defense ever seen. And that team defense has picked up exactly where they left off.

When the Leafs have "one of the best records in hockey" after 82 games are played and go on to at least win a playoff series, you will have a point. Until then you're basically just shouting "6-1 start!" over and over again. Just like people did when we had hot starts under Wilson. Yourself included. Remember how that worked out? Nobody smart is getting to excited 1/10th of the way into the season even if their team is actually dominant. Which the Leafs are not even close to being. Look at San Jose's hot start last year. All for naught.

 

[bunjay]

Gardiner was off to a good, confident start until he got Carlyled. So he needs to learn to play better along the boards but when you reign him in and and make him think too much, he turns to mush. I'd much rather have a confident, full-out Gardiner with the odd mistake than a scared, pensive mushy one. Aren't good coaches supposed to get more out their players and not less?
People putting a positive spin on Sats game is ludicrous, it was downright embarrassing, it's starting to look like a full-scale mutiny is developing, players are giving up, I knew Carlyle had a limited shelf-life, didn't know it would be this short.

Something is being sucked out of this team with all the chip-and-chase nonsense that starts all the way from our own icing line. This is obvious Carlyle's strategy or they wouldnt be doing it and failing at it over and over and over again. It's like he's forbidden the team from making any plays ahywhere near or through the middle of the ice.

 

[happyaccident]

I felt sorry for our d and for Bernier on Sat. It's like playing football on a hot day and every time the offense gets the ball, it's 3 and out, they were just being plastered. They were probably hoping that somebody could at least take the puck into the Chicago zone and scrum it along the boards for a minute. Our forwards can't cycle, pass, skate or check so far for 90% of the season and I don't know what Carlyle's practices consist of but it's clearly not even close to working.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I felt sorry for our d and for Bernier on Sat. It's like playing football on a hot day and every time the offense gets the ball, it's 3 and out, they were just being plastered. They were probably hoping that somebody could at least take the puck into the Chicago zone and scrum it along the boards for a minute. Our forwards can't cycle, pass, skate or check so far for 90% of the season and I don't know what Carlyle's practices consist of but it's clearly not even close to working.

Maybe Clarkson can help in the cycle and check departments.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Orr needs to fight. He is there to fight.

 

[Sproo]

I guess no one told either of them its easier to move the puck around while on the PP.

Agreed. That whole globetrotters bit was way over the top. Like no $h!7 that a good team can pass the puck around on a PP.

 

[ULF_55]

I say it's about time someone calls out Healy for the stupid things he says.

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper 21h
My Cup teammate Heals just called the #Leafs the Washington Generals during the 2nd intermission on #HNIC. Way to crush Leaf Nation Heals.

I cannot stand Healy, and it's worse when the Leafs play like he claims.

 

[My Sweet Shadow]

When you're outshot 20-6 in one period, I'd say you kinda deserve it.

 

[happyaccident]

Something is being sucked out of this team with all the chip-and-chase nonsense that starts all the way from our own icing line. This is obvious Carlyle's strategy or they wouldnt be doing it and failing at it over and over and over again. It's like he's forbidden the team from making any plays ahywhere near or through the middle of the ice.

We seem to have a team that is much more conducive to a "so-called" Ron Wilson style of hockey than whatever Carlyle may have had in Anaheim. Our top 6 (top 5 + Bozak, I should say) can really motor, we have a couple of d who can really move, 2 more d (Franson & Phaneuf) who are offensively capable, and 2 #1 goalies. So to see these guys trying to play some kind of grind and chip game and not skating for 40 minutes a night is frustrating as heck.

 

[Grant]

Can someone link me to that video that Healy did? I want to watch it again but can't find it.

 

[Kamal007]

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

If you think the Leaf can't score at even strength. Than what's that say about Boston and Ottawa? The Leafs have almost as many even strength goals 19. As both Boston and Ottawa have in total goals scored 20.

 

[ULF_55]

So far (teams ranked on team PPG):

Vs. 1 - 5 Teams (SJS, COL, PIT, ANA, STL): 1gms, 0-1-0, 1gf/2ga
Vs. 6 -10 Teams (CHI, BOS, DET, TOR, PHX): 1gms, 0-1-0, 1gf/3ga
Vs. 11-15 Teams (LAK, MTL, TBL, VAN, CAR): 2gms, 1-1-0, 6gf/6ga
Vs. 16-20 Teams (CAL, NAS, WPG, MIN, OTT): 3gms, 3-0-0, 12gf/5ga
Vs. 21-25 Teams (NYI, DAL, WAS, FLA, NJD): 0gms, 0-0-0, 0gf/0ga
Vs. 26-30 Teams (NYR, CLM, EDM, BUF, PHI): 2gms, 2-0-0, 9gf/6ga

Vs. Top-10 Teams: 2gms, 0-2-0, 2gf/5ga
Vs. Mid-10 Teams: 5gms, 4-1-0, 18gf/11ga
Vs. Bot-10 Teams: 2gms, 2-0-0, 9gf/6ga

Does that work out to 1 win against teams currently in a playoff position?

 

[FlareKnight]

How is that calling him out? Sounded like he kinda agreed lol

Yeah, that sounded a lot more like "way to go" than anything else.

 

[bunjay]

We seem to have a team that is much more conducive to a "so-called" Ron Wilson style of hockey than whatever Carlyle may have had in Anaheim. Our top 6 (top 5 + Bozak, I should say) can really motor, we have a couple of d who can really move, 2 more d (Franson & Phaneuf) who are offensively capable, and 2 #1 goalies. So to see these guys trying to play some kind of grind and chip game and not skating for 40 minutes a night is frustrating as heck.

It seemed to me that the Leafs turned the Boston series around when they stopped trying to beat the Bruins on the boards (their strength) and started just attacking relentlessly with speed. We saw Grabovski accomplish very little on the stat sheet but his speed gave the Bruins a lot of trouble and made them spend a lot of time chasing and avoiding the forecheck. Hard to play against when you're a slower team overall. It was essentially "Ron Wilson" hockey with better goaltending and special teams, and tighter defense (until the collapse, of course).

Maybe in hindsight it'll turn out that Grabovski got pushed out of a team he was well suited to because Carlyle wanted to mold the Leafs into something the're not.

Then again maybe it'll start to work at some point. I'm skeptical. In any case Ron Wilson gets criticized for playing a style of hockey that actually ended up working really well for the roster when they got real goaltending and better special teams.

 

[Swervin81]

lol Can Kypreos ever go a day without mentioning him winning the Cup?

Kevin Lowe disease.

 

[Mess]

So far (teams ranked on team PPG):

Vs. 1 - 5 Teams (SJS, COL, PIT, ANA, STL): 1gms, 0-1-0, 1gf/2ga
Vs. 6 -10 Teams (CHI, BOS, DET, TOR, PHX): 1gms, 0-1-0, 1gf/3ga
Vs. 11-15 Teams (LAK, MTL, TBL, VAN, CAR): 2gms, 1-1-0, 6gf/6ga
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vs. 16-20 Teams (CAL, NAS, WPG, MIN, OTT): 3gms, 3-0-0, 12gf/5ga
Vs. 21-25 Teams (NYI, DAL, WAS, FLA, NJD): 0gms, 0-0-0, 0gf/0ga
Vs. 26-30 Teams (NYR, CLM, EDM, BUF, PHI): 2gms, 2-0-0, 9gf/6ga

RED = Leaf Losses

So Leafs beat 1 team this year Montreal that is currrently in a playoff spot and recorded most of their wins against current non playoff teams.

 

[Pi]

Does that work out to 1 win against teams currently in a playoff position?

Of the 15 other teams currently holding a playoff spot, we have only played 3 of them.

Carolina, Chicago and Montreal.

Beat Montreal.

1/3 not 1/9.

 

[Pi]

RED = Leaf Losses

So Leafs beat 1 team this year Montreal that is currrently in a playoff spot and recorded most of their wins against current non playoff teams.

Not really fair to see it that way...

you're basing their CURRENT record when you use those stats.

Minnesota was in a playoff spot when we beat them, Ottawa was in a playoff spot when we beat them.

The reason they are no longer in a playoff spot is because...you guessed it, we beat them.

 

[happyaccident]

It seemed to me that the Leafs turned the Boston series around when they stopped trying to beat the Bruins on the boards (their strength) and started just attacking relentlessly with speed. We saw Grabovski accomplish very little on the stat sheet but his speed gave the Bruins a lot of trouble and made them spend a lot of time chasing and avoiding the forecheck. Hard to play against when you're a slower team overall. It was essentially "Ron Wilson" hockey with better goaltending and special teams, and tighter defense (until the collapse, of course).

Maybe in hindsight it'll turn out that Grabovski got pushed out of a team he was well suited to because Carlyle wanted to mold the Leafs into something the're not.

Then again maybe it'll start to work at some point. I'm skeptical. In any case Ron Wilson gets criticized for playing a style of hockey that actually ended up working really well for the roster when they got real goaltending and better special teams.

I think it was Lucic who gave them a backhanded compliment, something to the effect that they were actually playing like they cared (referring back to some of their previous meetings).
It's really hard to tell what you've got or don't have when you're playing with all the intensity of a wet noodle, don't know if it's a mutiny or what, not buying into Carlyle's system, locker room issues, overtired already, don't know what's with the lack of ES effort and intensity, they've just thrown in the towel more often than not so far.

 

[Mess]

Of the 15 other teams currently holding a playoff spot, we have only played 3 of them.

Carolina, Chicago and Montreal.

Beat Montreal.

1/3 not 1/9.

You missed Colorado and another loss.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think Healey obviously likes to needle Leafs fans. Considering the source, I don't let him bother me. He's got his shtick and he plays to it every chance he gets.

 

[Mess]

Not really fair to see it that way...

you're basing their CURRENT record when you use those stats.

Minnesota was in a playoff spot when we beat them, Ottawa was in a playoff spot when we beat them.

The reason they are no longer in a playoff spot is because...you guessed it, we beat them.

Of Leafs 6 wins this year only Montreal finished ahead of the Leafs while the other 5 wins came against teams that Leafs finished ahead of last year in the final standings.